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Trump Ready To SCRAP Obama's Affirmative Action Guidelines

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posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: bluesjr

I'd be fine with that since it still gets to the root of the problem. That said, I think most on this site would have an issue with it since they'll consider it redistribution of wealth.




posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:41 PM
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it's a racist policy that hasn't worked because you can't make people want to work hard and succeed

the old saying, "you can only bring a horse to water you can't make him drink" applies

it's also racist against white and Asian people who have spent their entire lives working hard for opportunities that are given to people who did not have to meet the same standard



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: smkymcnugget420

Not what I said at all. But it is undeniable that the damage done to the Black community over centuries of repression cannot be fixed with a generation or two of lip service equality.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

Only whites are racist.
Did you miss the memo?



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:42 PM
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Obama Logic: Let’s fix racial inequality by creating more racial inequality.

Brilliant!




posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:45 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

I don't disagree with you. Affirmative action is a bandaid at best. But until politicians are ready to completely overhaul our education system and how funding works for it, it's pretty much the only option we have.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:50 PM
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originally posted by: ErrorErrorError
Had Obama invented cure for cancer Trump would scrap it and American rednecks would think it's about fighting "globuuuhhliissts".


Obama didn't. Or maybe he did, but didn't tell a soul........

If Trump finds the cure, he will make it available to all Americans.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults


it's a racist policy that hasn't worked because you can't make people want to work hard and succeed


That right there is a racist statement. You're assuming that these kids don't work hard or don't want to succeed just because of their race.

Many of the kids that benefit from affirmative action come from lower income areas. That means their school system is receiving less funding with equates to a worse education. It also means that they can't devote as much time to studying. They have to watch their siblings while their parents work. Or they have to work themselves to help support the family.

That's going to affect grades and test scores. These kids are still working hard but instead of academic success their primary focus is the well being of their family. You would think the Right would want to support such people considering how often we're told the breakdown of the family unit is the cause of all this country's problems.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

it doesn't matter if they overhaul the education system

anybody in America can go to a public library with their kids and spend time educating them and get them on the right track

it's not the education system holding you back at that age it's bad parenting and lack of drive



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: visitedbythem

Last time I checked Trump and his supporters were fans of gating things like healthcare behind a paywall.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

Doing everything possible to provide for your family is now bad parenting? It's funny how a millionaire can never see their kids due to the hours they work and be praised for providing a great childhood for their kids; meanwhile a poor person can work the same amount of hours just to make ends meet and they're condemned for being the world's worst parent.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: shawmanfromny


When Obama was president, It was OK to protest and blame police officers for EVERY killing of a black person. He NEVER condemned Black Lives Matter, for inciting violence and calling for the death of police officers.


That's a whole bunch of conflation and factual inaccuracy that has nothing to do with the topic. Saying that "BLM" incited violence and called for the death of police officers is worse than blaming Trump for the actions of every idiot in his cult. Also, Presidents don't dictate what is or isn't okay to protest.

But hey, I guess you'll be running around to defend anyone who links Trump's anti-media rhetoric with something like the Capital Gazette shooting. (rhetorical question)

Anyway, on the topic:

What's being rescinded isn't actually Obama-era "Affirmative Action" guidelines at all. That's a hot mess of implication. What's being rescinded is DOJ guidance on when it's permissible for institutions of higher education to consider race without running afoul of the law.


which by definition is discrimination.


Yes. It's actually referred to as "positive discrimination" in some places. And yes, the purpose is to confer advantage to groups that have been historically disadvantaged. The whole idea behind it is that a) the current situation is a result of the past b) in the past discrimination was legal against certain groups c) discrimination in favor of those groups now will offset the past discrimination.

The people who dreamed this stuff up in the first place were trying to take direct, immediate action to bring about integration. It's not supposed to be a permanent thing. You can argue the effectiveness but dismissing it with "discrimination is bad" is also pretty ridiculous.

Think it through. You had groups of people who were legally discriminated against for centuries. After generations of struggle, that ends, and then the political group that fought to continue centuries of race-based oppression were suddenly decrying discrimination intended to counteract the discrimination they'd supported.

I'm sure if this was 1966, you'd have a lot easier time wrapping your head around why somebody would consider positive discrimination as a viable solution to integrating a segregated society. It's easy to pick apart something like this but there's no guarantee of a perfect solution to an epically #ed up situation.

That said, social engineering is of course prone to unintended consequences and I actually tend to agree that considering race in admissions today creates more harm than good and it would be much better to concentrate efforts elsewhere.


improving our schools in the inner cities and hiring better teachers, will increase a minority student's educational opportunities to earn a college degree.


I generally agree with this sentiment but I would first point out that it's not strictly an "inner city" issue. I would also point out up front that anyone who seriously wanted to improve education wouldn't put Betsy DeVos in charge of it.

It's not quite as simple as it sounds either. There's a reason that poor communities produce #ty schools. They've got no tax base. Furthermore, in poor communities you've got kids whose parents were also products of #ty schools. And that's just one of many social factors to consider that exist outside of school itself.

If there was a silver bullet solution to the problem of integrated a forcefully segregated society, I'm sure we'd all have some clue about what it was by now. Personally, I always come back to employment when I look at the 20th century. People having good jobs makes # better all the way around.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: Cutepants
Well done by Trump. They should make majority black schools work better, though it's not so easy, or possibly they should give black parents more and better options when picking a school for their children. But affirmative is unfair and undermines the nation's sense of fairness. It undermines our future too, when more promising students loose opportunities.


I've been following this discussion on a different forum geared around education for kids.

It's a thorny problem.

Everyone agrees that the kids with the ability should be identified and given opportunities to match their ability. The problem is how to identify kids from tough backgrounds and pull them out of their day to day to motivate them to take advantage of that opportunity.

A poster was right when they said that when parents don't care, kids won't either, and in certain communities, their is a stigma against appearing smart and educated such that kids feel a lot of pressure to fit in and not learn to their potential.

And when you have parents (more often just parent) who don't or plain won't care, it just gets that much harder to break a kid out who could be so much more than they're heading for.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Ha, I like how I'm the one taking Trump's side here and you're questioning it. But you're right of course. I guess affirmative action helps give those kids role models and examples to show that they don't have to conform to that anti-education attitude. And that can help reduce a lot of social problems in the future.

I'm actually OK with it. It's just one of those issues where I can really see the conservative side too, or maybe the Republicans' side of the argument, so I wanted to shake things up a bit.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 04:33 PM
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originally posted by: ErrorErrorError
Had Obama invented cure for cancer Trump would scrap it and American rednecks would think it's about fighting "globuuuhhliissts".


There's about a double ZERO chance of Obama inventing anything let alone a cure for something...

Yep, we rednecks are working hard with President Trump to make America great for all Americans, unlike Obama who actually supported only Arab terrorist countries...



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 04:35 PM
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originally posted by: ErrorErrorError
Had Obama invented cure for cancer Trump would scrap it and American rednecks would think it's about fighting "globuuuhhliissts".

Yeah , but Obama did not have the qualifications to even go anywhere near a research lab.
So , yes anything Obama produced from a biological lab should be destroyed.
Well , he could have claimed affirmative action.
Do you even know what a "redneck is" 5th grader ?
Take the name calling back to the playground
And the word is globalists.
The adults are trying to have an intellectual , mature conversation on affirmative action.


edit on 7/3/18 by Gothmog because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 04:40 PM
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a reply to: Cutepants

Oh, no! I'm not on the affirmative action side. There are better ways. One of the things that other forum is watching is the fight over New York City's elite high schools. Mayor de Blasio wants to automatically set aside a certain number of seats in them for kids out of every middle school, no matter their actual performance instead of having an entrance exam for all students like those schools do now.

In practice, this would more or less mean holding a certain number of seats for black and Latino students out of the worst performing middle schools. Sure, they'd be the top kids in those schools, but they'd more or less be the best of the worst.

Thing is that the high schools in question are open to whomever can pass the entrance tests now. It doesn't matter who takes those tests. In fact, some of those schools are majority free and reduced lunch kids, so it's not like they're loaded with rich kids. Those schools make their test prep booklets and materials freely available so kids and families have access to what will be necessary for a student to know in order to have a shot at passing the test.

What's been going on is that primarily Asian families and to a lesser extent white families have been taking advantage of this opportunity and aggressively getting their kids into those schools by basically studying. Some of those same Asian kids come out of the bad schools, but the parents care enough to make sure they can pass the test.

But the system as it stands if being called racist because not every ethnic group is putting in the effort.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: visitedbythem

Last time I checked Trump and his supporters were fans of gating things like healthcare behind a paywall.

You been listening to your neighbor again ?
That is no place to get current events...



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 04:46 PM
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originally posted by: shawmanfromny
a reply to: elementalgrove

Well the inner city schools suck in my city, along with many of the teachers. In addition, attendance at these schools, is abysmal. If parents don't care about their kid's future, why should the kid?


Why should anyone else.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 04:46 PM
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Glad to see the unfair racial discrimination being removed. Merit based race-blind admissions policies are the way to go, for all things.

No one should have any advantage outside their own personal accomplishments and achievements.

This is the equal rights some on the left have been calling for. Equal means equal
edit on 7/3/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)




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