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Define Socialism... IN YOUR OWN WORDS.

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posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:10 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

You fail in "constitutional law". The Federal government is limited in what it can, and can not do. Matter of fact the only thing it's supposed to do, is/was spelled out in the US.Constitution, (a very simple read). There is no "government programs" in the "law". The only "program" is the "postal service ". And they couldn't do that right.
Fact is, constitutionally?... Congress "has exclusive legislation, not EXCEEDING, ten miles square ". That's how much power the Feds have over free and sovereign states. I'm not sure why the sick, lame and lazy keep inviting big government into our lives. But yet they do. With no "legal standing". The S.C.O.T.U.S. has and is , the arbitration for citizen and states. Not, not "passing a new law in congress". Congress can only pass law according/within constitutional boundaries... Passing a "law" that violates/alters the constitution, is not a "law". And the "courts" can't make it a law, just by wearing a nightgown and having a wooden mallet.
This is were American socialist keep getting it wrong. They'll never be tolerated, ever! The US. has a unique "legal system"... Democracy/the majority of fools is not how we define rights or law.




posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Wardaddy454

Hitler's "socialism" was German nationalism, and he (and Goebbels) specficially stated that sozialismus was not in any way Marxist repeatedly.

Your statement of routine misunderstanding has little to do with my post toward the topic.

I just did define socialism by what it isn't and gave a comparison in American culture that comes closest in my opinion. I took that approach because of the blatant and intentional misrepresentations of socialism by many on this site as I responded to OPs request.


I am not a socialist btw.


Because Marx viewed socialism as a transition to communism.

Even among socialist the definition is varied. So to claim misrepresentation of it is ridiculous. And you missed the mark. I said you can't define it by what hasn't existed. In other words, there is no truly socialist utopia in existence today, and there never has been.

What we have had, is many examples of failure.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: SkepticalRogue123
Anything not influenced by Western (Eurocentric, Jewish or captilist) thought. it poisons everything it touches!


Then nothing in the world is not "poisoned" by now, so you might as well give it up.

I know the answer though ... you need to kill all us "white devils" and then you can make like the Taliban and erase all traces of all culture because we've touched it all, and then you can drag yourselves out of the caves you will have been relegated to living in by then, but ... on the bright side, whatever survives will be living on a system they will have made on their own.


No, not the Taliban! Korean culture!



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:14 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: SkepticalRogue123
Anything not influenced by Western (Eurocentric, Jewish or captilist) thought. it poisons everything it touches!


Okay, so that's a negative definition ... you're telling me what you don't want.

What's an example of a system that you want to be a part of? One that isn't "corrupted" as you put it?


The Chinese model is currently the best system. However, that doesn't mean I agree with it. Just it's more efficient. But if I had my way, I'll follow in the foot steps of Ted Kaczynski because he was correct about modern society and it's affect on both humanity and the Earth at large. No matter what people do, the way live destroys both the environment and endangers other life forms like other animals.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: Wardaddy454

Marx said a lot of idealistic things 140 years ago or so in a political pamplet he and Engels were paid to write.

(Keep this in historical context.)

His logic was that capitalism would collapse on its own due to the inequities that it produces. The next phase would be socialism in which the workers owned the means of production because that's what he saw as the evolution of the system, just as capitalism had evolved from feudalism.

Oh please, Wardaddy, I haven't missed any marks; you're merely quibbling about semantics.

There is not now nor will there ever be a socialist utopia .. that we agree on. Just as there are not, have not been and will not be idealized free markets and perfect capitalism.

I don't disagree about failure, but that's how we grow. I think we're just getting started, really.


edit on 4-7-2018 by Gryphon66 because: Spelling



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

Socialism, to me, from my perspective:

I work, make money, and against my consent an outside power takes my money to give to other people who do not work or even have the same values as me, weakening me, and strengthening them..

That is socialism to me.

*drops microphone*



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:21 PM
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originally posted by: SkepticalRogue123

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: SkepticalRogue123
Anything not influenced by Western (Eurocentric, Jewish or captilist) thought. it poisons everything it touches!


Okay, so that's a negative definition ... you're telling me what you don't want.

What's an example of a system that you want to be a part of? One that isn't "corrupted" as you put it?


The Chinese model is currently the best system. However, that doesn't mean I agree with it. Just it's more efficient. But if I had my way, I'll follow in the foot steps of Ted Kaczynski because he was correct about modern society and it's affect on both humanity and the Earth at large. No matter what people do, the way live destroys both the environment and endangers other life forms like other animals.


I would disagree with the chinese model being the best, they are communist! they can and have slaughtered their own people with no remorse... Imprisoned those who want to have faith, allow companies to work them 80+ hours a week with crap pay, so bad to a point Apple had to put suicide nets up on their building, how are they the best model again?



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:23 PM
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originally posted by: SkepticalRogue123

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: SkepticalRogue123
Anything not influenced by Western (Eurocentric, Jewish or captilist) thought. it poisons everything it touches!


Okay, so that's a negative definition ... you're telling me what you don't want.

What's an example of a system that you want to be a part of? One that isn't "corrupted" as you put it?


The Chinese model is currently the best system. However, that doesn't mean I agree with it. Just it's more efficient. But if I had my way, I'll follow in the foot steps of Ted Kaczynski because he was correct about modern society and it's affect on both humanity and the Earth at large. No matter what people do, the way live destroys both the environment and endangers other life forms like other animals.


So, the only solution is wide-scale genocide and primitivism?

Seems extreme and not much fun.

Thanks for the answers and the chat.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:32 PM
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Socialism is a Utopian fantasy.

It is a system that in theory could only work if everyone (and I do mean EVERYONE) fully supports it in both action and thought.

But that will never happen, because no matter how you try to legislate morality, and intention, people are fundamentally different from each other. We're individuals, and as long as we are Socialism can never work.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: murphy22

You just described Obamacare, how it was passed and received the Supreme Court blessing.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Paid to write, yet would continue to be fundamental in the development of modern socialism.

Writing both that it would collapse on itself, and suggesting that socialism will come through violent revolution and overthrow of capitalism. Hmm.




Oh please, Wardaddy, I haven't missed any marks; you're merely quibbling about semantics.


If that's how you need to frame it I guess...


And Capitalism does more to lift people out of poverty than socialism does. Strange that we see more income inequality, poor, and homelessness the more this country moves towards socialism.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 06:59 PM
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originally posted by: poncho1982
Socialism is a Utopian fantasy.

It is a system that in theory could only work if everyone (and I do mean EVERYONE) fully supports it in both action and thought.

But that will never happen, because no matter how you try to legislate morality, and intention, people are fundamentally different from each other. We're individuals, and as long as we are Socialism can never work.


Would you say that humanity would need some crazy event, like being met by some pointy eared beings, before that might happen?



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 07:35 PM
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originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: poncho1982
Socialism is a Utopian fantasy.

It is a system that in theory could only work if everyone (and I do mean EVERYONE) fully supports it in both action and thought.

But that will never happen, because no matter how you try to legislate morality, and intention, people are fundamentally different from each other. We're individuals, and as long as we are Socialism can never work.


Would you say that humanity would need some crazy event, like being met by some pointy eared beings, before that might happen?


The only way socialism would ever work is
1) Do away with money
2) Do away with BIG governments and military
3) Make sure everybody plays there roll in society, if they dont want to then they can leave and go somewhere else.

This will never happen until we get a hard reset and start over. You should look into how Star trek's society is. It's based off the socialism utopia all the liberals think exist today but it is fantasy. Star treks is more realistic just the fact they had to do away with Big governments, money, and military, OH, did I mention EVERYBODY had to play their roll for it to work as well or they were kicked out, you did have a choice to return so long you helped out. But with out money and the rich wanting to put a meter on everything, powerful governments and the military weaponizing and hiding the best tech their civilization was not held back and allowed to advance.

But anyways, in my opinion that will be the ONLY way socialism will ever work, ever since it's birth though it's been a freedom crushing miserably failed system



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 07:38 PM
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a reply to: Ahabstar

You're right! I didn't stutter. There is absolutely no legal basis for B.O. Care. Neither of "the three branches of government", has/have any business making unConstitutional "law". That said, It is not a legal "law" to begin with. It should be ignored. Why do you think (Robert's) the S.C.O.T.U.S. defined/made it a "tax"? To make it "law". (Can't have the government breaking the "law"!) It would be unConstitutional? Lol! ...But that idea of "law" is based on the "public education" idea that taxes just come from the blue sky with no restraints. Again I refer any reader, to the US. Constitution. It specifically states how US. Fed gov gets "Legal taxes", and how to be levied by Congress. The "Earnings" tax on private citizens? Is not in there. Income and earnings are not the same thing.
I know, "16Th. Amendment" and all. ...
Congress had very simple instructions and, .re: the 16th. ... "Congress cannot by an ordinary act of legislation, ALTER that, from which it derives its power to legislate". But yet here we are, "defining socialism in our own words"
I'd invite any supporter of socialism to read the Communist Manifesto. Then, come back to me, defending "Democracy" or "Socialism". Then tell me why, I should let you walk away and ruin my Rebublic? That's where your "freedom" to believe, begins with your "right to remain silent ".... As it should be! To answer the OP? Socialism in the US. Is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. That's a "social courtesy", not "hate speach". Regarding commie "social" inroads already established? We're working on round filing that....



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 10:46 PM
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The State is supreme. The State becomes the all powerful god. Individual liberty is sacrificed for the common good. It sounds all very nice and altruistic for the State to provide all the needs of the people and help all the lowest denominator.... but really, the redistribution of wealth is forced and thus not even charity. As Ronald Reagan once said the government giveth and the government taketh away. Why do we allow any government this kind of power over us? The government is cutting up the chicken in one persons pot and putting half of it in another person's pot. It is not increasing the goods, but redistributing it according to the arbitrary decisions the government makes.
Nanny Statism ultimately is not good for any of us. It may put a temporary bandaid on some problems, but the wound is still gushing and its not a real solution.
Star Parker is proof that an individual can get out of the welfare cycle and make their own lives better.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 10:48 PM
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originally posted by: murphy22
a reply to: Ahabstar

You're right! I didn't stutter. There is absolutely no legal basis for B.O. Care. Neither of "the three branches of government", has/have any business making unConstitutional "law". That said, It is not a legal "law" to begin with. It should be ignored. Why do you think (Robert's) the S.C.O.T.U.S. defined/made it a "tax"? To make it "law". (Can't have the government breaking the "law"!) It would be unConstitutional? Lol! ...But that idea of "law" is based on the "public education" idea that taxes just come from the blue sky with no restraints. Again I refer any reader, to the US. Constitution. It specifically states how US. Fed gov gets "Legal taxes", and how to be levied by Congress. The "Earnings" tax on private citizens? Is not in there. Income and earnings are not the same thing.
I know, "16Th. Amendment" and all. ...
Congress had very simple instructions and, .re: the 16th. ... "Congress cannot by an ordinary act of legislation, ALTER that, from which it derives its power to legislate". But yet here we are, "defining socialism in our own words"
I'd invite any supporter of socialism to read the Communist Manifesto. Then, come back to me, defending "Democracy" or "Socialism". Then tell me why, I should let you walk away and ruin my Rebublic? That's where your "freedom" to believe, begins with your "right to remain silent ".... As it should be! To answer the OP? Socialism in the US. Is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. That's a "social courtesy", not "hate speach". Regarding commie "social" inroads already established? We're working on round filing that....
Bravo Bravo Bravo!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 10:51 PM
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a reply to: xBWOMPx

It's the third part that will be the kicker.

How do you make sure everyone plays their role? Do you assign people roles? What if you do that and someone doesn't like his or her role? What if there is nowhere to go? What if the only role left is sh!t=shoveler and no one wants to do it ... the role is so bad in society that people would rather be exiled than do it? How do you get it done? What happens when the exiles form their own, non-socialist society and it turns out to be more enticing and better than what you have so people start wanting to leave?



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 11:09 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: xBWOMPx

It's the third part that will be the kicker.

How do you make sure everyone plays their role? Do you assign people roles? What if you do that and someone doesn't like his or her role? What if there is nowhere to go? What if the only role left is sh!t=shoveler and no one wants to do it ... the role is so bad in society that people would rather be exiled than do it? How do you get it done? What happens when the exiles form their own, non-socialist society and it turns out to be more enticing and better than what you have so people start wanting to leave?


Well, if we didn't have corruption holding us back im sure technology would go along ways to # jobs, I believe in startrek (im not a huge treky nerd but...) people test and choose what they want out of a list of options according to their test results. Just like our military, you take the ASVAB test, you see where your strengths are and you choose a job your qualified for. There will always be rebels or crime but when you live in a society where there are no rich and powerful, everybody has a home, food, water, transportation, and every thing needed plus entertainment there would be far less crime. In general, there will always be greedy people and petty theft, but a lot of this happens because people are in need. You rarely see people who are financially stable robbing others. Anyway, I guess we will never know but a lot of how you bring children up is how they will be as adults. Even Halo story line (the game) has a similar society. Before they were attacked by an alien force they had little to no military and started to advance rapidly and colonize other planets. I believe if the human race is to have a future we would need a system similar to this.



posted on Jul, 4 2018 @ 11:53 PM
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originally posted by: Wardaddy454

And Capitalism does more to lift people out of poverty than socialism does. Strange that we see more income inequality, poor, and homelessness the more this country moves towards socialism.






absolutely untrue.

Income inequality has historically and currently been at its highest ever since the Neoliberal practises implemented by Ronald Reagan in the 80's, when taxes were slashed and the "welfare state" began to be rolled back.

The Golden age of America, when the middle class was at its greatest peak was AFter FDR implemented the "new deal" social programs/welfare state. this was when income inequality was at its smallest. It all went to hell after Ronald Reagan and "trickle down economics" "austerity" "lower taxes" etc. and the income inequlity has continued to rise from then until today because the same basic policies have been continuing regardless of the President or Party.
edit on 4-7-2018 by MrVancityeagle because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-7-2018 by MrVancityeagle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2018 @ 12:18 AM
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Socialism is an innoculation against stupidity and greed. Take the poster who used the dumb smoker analogy who attempted to "infect" us with the silly notion that our "individual rights and freedoms" would be infringed if the rest of us helped out the silly bugger by kicking in a penny or two to help pay for the removal of his lung tumors or oxygen bottles.....No, the "rest of us" probably don't give a monkey about "the smoker" and his infectious hubris....what "socialized medicine" provides is care for the remainder of your family that might be monitarily wiped out to support the repurcussions of your greedy and stupid habits and selfish desire for the "freedom" to take everyone in your family zone of responsibily down to bancruptcy town just so you can claim "independence". Don't worry stupid smoker, we socialists are a caring lot, we will look after your clan long after you go to smoker's heaven....it's just the right thing to do, cause no matter how thick and stubborn one clan member is, the majority of people are good and care....and everyone helping someone in need is just tge right thing to do....that's what socialim is. Now, take the shot, get well and get on board.
edit on 5-7-2018 by KeithCooper because: (no reason given)



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