Define Socialism... IN YOUR OWN WORDS.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: MrVancityeagle

It so interesting how Hitler's domestic policies were virtually indistinguishable from FDR's New Deal.

Quick list?

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Those are just a prominent layer of mass social group identity (tribe), a way of coalescing people into a spear via patriotic fervorism.

The typical knee jerk response is: 'NOOOOOOO the Nazi's (National Socialists) werent socialists because they were nationalists'.

And that's absurd.

Kids, this is what happens when you take the Nazi propaganda literally and run into socialists on ATS.

Fascinating, innit?

a reply to: Gryphon66

Basically everything not specific to the war machine, or eugenics / discrimination operations.

One example is the National Highway System versus the Autobahn.

Likewise, then when it was war time the US war machine framework became virtually indistinguishable to the German.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

This is my own cutting edge political / social psychology theory:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Come on in and debunk it, I double dog dare ya!

I think that twice now I've been called a Nazi in this thread.

LOL!

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
I think that twice now I've been called a Nazi in this thread.

LOL!

Well you do bear a striking resemblance to Mel Brooks...

"Naked and Afraid" is socialism. Everybody shares the fish they caught, and do so without resentment, because they know they will need to eat when somebody else kills a boar.

It's a good practice.

But when that fish and that boar are represented by paper green stuff (or digits on your computer screen) everything changes, right?

a reply to: intrepid

GD it you blew my covah!

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Gryphon66

Basically everything not specific to the war machine, or eugenics / discrimination operations.

One example is the National Highway System versus the Autobahn.

Likewise, then when it was war time the US war machine framework became virtually indistinguishable to the German.

Autobahn plans predated Hitler and there wasn't really anything comparable under FDR. So not possibly the best example.

During war time countries tend to adopt what they believe to be the most efficient model for military production so not really a surprise that there are similarities. However its not the case that the systems US and Germany were 'virtually indistinguishable'.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Hitler did admire Roosevelt... until he didn't.

a reply to: ScepticScot

[Just days after the 1933 Nazi takeover, Adolf Hitler enthusiastically embraced an ambitious autobahn construction project, appointing Fritz Todt, the Inspector General of German Road Construction, to lead it. By 1936, 130,000 workers were directly employed in construction, as well as an additional 270,000 in the supply chain for construction equipment, steel, concrete, signage, maintenance equipment, etc. In rural areas, new camps to house the workers were built near construction sites.]
en.wikipedia.org...

[Roosevelt nationalized unemployment relief through the Works Progress Administration (WPA), headed by close friend Harry Hopkins. Roosevelt had insisted that the projects had to be costly in terms of labor, long-term beneficial and the WPA was forbidden to compete with private enterprises—therefore the workers had to be paid smaller wages.[85] The Works Progress Administration (WPA) was created to return the unemployed to the work force.[86] The WPA financed a variety of projects such as hospitals, schools and roads,[47] and employed more than 8.5 million workers who built 650,000 miles of highways and roads, 125,000 public buildings as well as bridges, reservoirs, irrigation systems, parks, playgrounds and so on.]
en.wikipedia.org...

[They were termed "Adolf Hitler's roads" (German: die Straßen Adolf Hitlers) and presented as a major contribution to the reduction of unemployment.]
en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: ScepticScot

[Just days after the 1933 Nazi takeover, Adolf Hitler enthusiastically embraced an ambitious autobahn construction project, appointing Fritz Todt, the Inspector General of German Road Construction, to lead it. By 1936, 130,000 workers were directly employed in construction, as well as an additional 270,000 in the supply chain for construction equipment, steel, concrete, signage, maintenance equipment, etc. In rural areas, new camps to house the workers were built near construction sites.]
en.wikipedia.org...

[Roosevelt nationalized unemployment relief through the Works Progress Administration (WPA), headed by close friend Harry Hopkins. Roosevelt had insisted that the projects had to be costly in terms of labor, long-term beneficial and the WPA was forbidden to compete with private enterprises—therefore the workers had to be paid smaller wages.[85] The Works Progress Administration (WPA) was created to return the unemployed to the work force.[86] The WPA financed a variety of projects such as hospitals, schools and roads,[47] and employed more than 8.5 million workers who built 650,000 miles of highways and roads, 125,000 public buildings as well as bridges, reservoirs, irrigation systems, parks, playgrounds and so on.]
en.wikipedia.org...

[They were termed "Adolf Hitler's roads" (German: die Straßen Adolf Hitlers) and presented as a major contribution to the reduction of unemployment.]
en.wikipedia.org...

Hitler embraced a pre existing scheme. It wasn't his although he did try and frame it as such.

There are pretty major differences between the autobahn and road construction in the US during the 30s. The US didn't begin a similar scheme until after the war.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”

B. Mussolini

But... but... but... the Autobahn was a socialist!!!oneoneeleven

a reply to: intrepid

Well trep, in the simplest form, Socialism is an equalization of the whole at the cost of the individual. Without morale kept high for the common goal of betterment by cooperation, advancements are stagnated to a degree. To use football as an example, a running back does not gain significant yardage when blockers miss assignments, thus the team ends up with a three and out situation on downs, punting the ball and hoping for the best.

Golf is more akin to Capitalism, unless in a foursome playing the best lay, in that individual success is solely awarded. The caddy might be the better judge of distances and give clubs at their suggestion, but it is the golfer that makes the final call, takes the shot and plays where it lands.

Socialism is always a collective working towards a goal, individual contribution shares the same reward and can be demotivating towards exceptionalism as it only eases the collective’s task towards the goal. It is like taking a class for a pass/fail grade.

originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: intrepid

Well trep, in the simplest form, Socialism is an equalization of the whole at the cost of the individual. Without morale kept high for the common goal of betterment by cooperation, advancements are stagnated to a degree. To use football as an example, a running back does not gain significant yardage when blockers miss assignments, thus the team ends up with a three and out situation on downs, punting the ball and hoping for the best.

Golf is more akin to Capitalism, unless in a foursome playing the best lay, in that individual success is solely awarded. The caddy might be the better judge of distances and give clubs at their suggestion, but it is the golfer that makes the final call, takes the shot and plays where it lands.

Socialism is always a collective working towards a goal, individual contribution shares the same reward and can be demotivating towards exceptionalism as it only eases the collective’s task towards the goal. It is like taking a class for a pass/fail grade.

Golf also uses handicaps to make it a fairer game...

originally posted by: angeldoll
"Naked and Afraid" is socialism. Everybody shares the fish they caught, and do so without resentment, because they know they will need to eat when somebody else kills a boar.

It's a good practice.

But when that fish and that boar are represented by paper green stuff (or digits on your computer screen) everything changes, right?

The problem with socialism is at some point you run out of everyone elses money.

a reply to: Ahabstar

I think that's a negative outlook on it. Then you have the team that gives everything and gain success. See the '94 Niners.

a reply to: ScepticScot

So Hitler runs policies, but if they werent his own ideas, then they're not worthy examples of Hitler's policies?

Well by that token, Eugenics wasnt Hitler's idea. Hating Jews etc... people hated them before him so Hitler is off the hook, right?

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Is your connection soley reliant on claiming that because Germany and the US were undergoing similar cycles of national development that proves ... what ... that both were socialist?

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: ScepticScot

So Hitler runs policies, but if they werent his own ideas, then they're not worthy examples of Hitler's policies?

Well by that token, Eugenics wasnt Hitler's idea. Hating Jews etc... people hated them before him so Hitler is off the hook, right?

Well if you are trying make a comparison between Hitler and FDR it's probably best to pick an actual policy they implemented.. Not just one they claimed credit for.

More generally what if Hitler did support road construction? Does that somehow make road construction a bad thing?

Good policies under bad governments are still good policies.