Abolish ICE and immigration solved...or is it?

a reply to: Kharron

I read this. Thanks for the link it is informative for others. So, these guys are saying they cannot do their jobs because of part of their job...right? I would fire all of them. Just like the ball-less wonders at the FBI. Spying on our own country and it is thrown in our face. You have a job. Do it. If you do not want to we can replace you.

a reply to : All

ICE was used previously to make stop and frisk 'racist'. It was tied into many investigations where those accused said racial profiling led to the search and frisk. That was over 6 years ago. Now ICE is being pegged because immigration is the hot issue.

See...under the Obama Administration look what they were doing...

Link

Before ICE we had the INS. INS is not ICE they are USCIS. ICE is a creation of INS and Border patrol. They Investigate and enforce the laws. Border functions are actaully CBP (US Customs and Border Security).

It is NOT as simple as let's get rid of ICE. It is ignorant and a scary option or thought to be honest.

originally posted by: Kharron

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Kharron

Enforcement of US LAW is important.

Amen to that too. Let's listen to them and work on giving them the capability to do so.

I think the longer ICE agents act as prison guards, the more actual crime will get missed. Child pornography, child trafficking and so on.

So in other words this "letter" you are PUSHING non stop by 19 Ice Agents out of 20,000 is enough for you to promote open borders???

We either turn them away or house them till they can be vetted. Pick one.

They came hear illegally so they broke our laws. This is a Progressive Globalist bait and switch. Congress won't do their job and change our laws, so let's make the tribe rabid with eliminating ICE.

Without ICE we have open border. At least be honest and admit it....

a reply to: matafuchs
The good old days in many ways were not really the good old days.

They were already well into their plan by this time.

a reply to: matafuchs

If they abolish ICE...who is watching out for the bad guys now?

Same people in a different agency under the DHS umbrella. Basically, spin HSI off into its own agency intact or more focused on specific transnational crime while turning over customs enforcement to CBP.

As I pointed out in an earlier thread, this isn't something that's just coming from left-wing activists/pundits/politicians, 19 HSI regional supervisors wrote a letter to Sec. Nielsen asking for the same.

ICE Criminal Investigators Ask to Be Distanced from Detentions, Deportations in Letter to Kirstjen Nielsen

There's no single plan behind this "abolish ICE" thing that's more or less sprung up over the last few weeks. Most of this push stems from discontent over Trump's positions on DACA, the recent "zero immigration" policy and more generally, Trump's incessant demagoguery on immigration.

I don't think you'd find many people who don't want law enforcement combating transnational crime. What a lot of people don't want however, is a gestapo deportation force busting down doors in the middle of the night and leading people off to detention camps in zip ties

Also part of this is Trump's EO (I think it was an EO?) calling for expanding ICE by half, with 8,500 of 10,000 new positions being in the ERO part of ICE.

The biggest part of the mainstream Left wasn't stirred up with ICE and deportations under Obama mostly because the focus was going after violent criminals and stopping people at the border (yes, Obama did in fact grow CBP and expanded deportations) with concessions (DACA) made for the illegal immigrants many people believe should have a path to citizenship if they're non-violent contributing members of society.

Though if you were paying attention, the advocacy groups for illegal immigrants were actually quite critical of "Deporter-in-Chief" Obama.

a reply to: seeker1963

They came hear illegally so they broke our laws.

Since laws don't matter.

Every single person sitting in prison for gun charges should get a get out of jail free care.

EQUAL protection under the LAW like the 14th amendment says.

Sure you guys read the letter?

These guys are agents in charge of those locations, 19 different cities, if you make it to the end. The article stated 'at least 19 agents' so that is where the confusion was with the media, but these guys are just authorized to speak for their departments. So, we don't know for how many people behind them they speak for, it could be the whole department that asked them, but each signature represents the ICE agents of that city.

So now I'm confused? Fire them all?

originally posted by: Kharron
Sure you guys read the letter?

These guys are agents in charge of those locations, 19 different cities, if you make it to the end. The article stated 'at least 19 agents' so that is where the confusion was with the media, but these guys are just authorized to speak for their departments. So, we don't know for how many people behind them they speak for, it could be the whole department that asked them, but each signature represents the ICE agents of that city.

So now I'm confused? Fire them all?

Wonder how many of em are Anti Trumpers??? Obama holdovers???

If they don't want to do their job they can find a new one.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Kharron
Sure you guys read the letter?

These guys are agents in charge of those locations, 19 different cities, if you make it to the end. The article stated 'at least 19 agents' so that is where the confusion was with the media, but these guys are just authorized to speak for their departments. So, we don't know for how many people behind them they speak for, it could be the whole department that asked them, but each signature represents the ICE agents of that city.

So now I'm confused? Fire them all?

Wonder how many of em are Anti Trumpers??? Obama holdovers???

If they don't want to do their job they can find a new one.

Very good question. When you find out will you let the rest of us know?

At this point we all know they are qualified to lead their divisions and the cities they represent and the White House is confident in them as well.

a reply to: seeker1963

If they accomplish getting ice abolished.

They will be looking for new ones.

ICE agents are not used to detain people border patrol handles that. ICE agents just make arrests and turns them over to border patrol

The problem stems from the fact the DHS took over all these functions due to the patriot act. ICE used to be many different orgs that merged into a mega department (ICE) under another mega department (DHS). Its funny how all of these DHS groups are becoming a # show under Trump.

originally posted by: Kharron

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Kharron
Sure you guys read the letter?

These guys are agents in charge of those locations, 19 different cities, if you make it to the end. The article stated 'at least 19 agents' so that is where the confusion was with the media, but these guys are just authorized to speak for their departments. So, we don't know for how many people behind them they speak for, it could be the whole department that asked them, but each signature represents the ICE agents of that city.

So now I'm confused? Fire them all?

Wonder how many of em are Anti Trumpers??? Obama holdovers???

If they don't want to do their job they can find a new one.

Very good question. When you find out will you let the rest of us know?

At this point we all know they are qualified to lead their divisions and the cities they represent and the White House is confident in them as well.

Not too qualified if they are complaining about their jobs now are they? Imagine if the military which by the way are government employees wrote a letter whining about their jobs. lol

a reply to: seeker1963

It's not 19 out of 20,000. First off, there are now more than 22,000 full-time positions in ICE. A little over 8k are HSI. It's not 19 out of 8,000 either though. The 19 are regional supervisors (Special Agent in Charge aka SAC) and notice that that they're the top people in the biggest offices. These 9 are the heads of the HSI offices in 9 of the 10 largest metro areas in the US (in order):

Angel M. Melendez - NYC
Joseph Macias - Los Angeles
James Gibbons - Chicago
Mark Dawson, Houston
Katrina Berger - Dallas
PJ Lechleitner - Washington, DC
Mark Selby - Miami
Marlon Miller - Philadelphia
Nick Annan - Atlanta

Boston would be #10. Michael Shea who I believe is still acting SAC for HSI in Boston, did not sign but the SACs for Phoenix (#11), San Francisco (#12), Detroit (#14), Seattle (#15), San Diego (#17), Tampa (#18), Denver (#19), San Antonio (#24) — Buffalo and New Orleans are much further down in terms of population.

By population, these are the HSI heads at 9 out of the top 10 and what? 16 of the top 20 metro areas?

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Kharron

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Kharron
Sure you guys read the letter?

These guys are agents in charge of those locations, 19 different cities, if you make it to the end. The article stated 'at least 19 agents' so that is where the confusion was with the media, but these guys are just authorized to speak for their departments. So, we don't know for how many people behind them they speak for, it could be the whole department that asked them, but each signature represents the ICE agents of that city.

So now I'm confused? Fire them all?

Wonder how many of em are Anti Trumpers??? Obama holdovers???

If they don't want to do their job they can find a new one.

Very good question. When you find out will you let the rest of us know?

At this point we all know they are qualified to lead their divisions and the cities they represent and the White House is confident in them as well.

Not too qualified if they are complaining about their jobs now are they? Imagine if the military which by the way are government employees wrote a letter whining about their jobs. lol

But let's not imagine it's the military and just stick with what it is. A government agency under the supervision of the White Hose. If they are incompetent then so are the people who keep them there.

Since all 19 have their jobs and have shown qualified enough to be in them, who should we assume knows more about their work and their suggestions for making the operations more efficient -- the experts in the field, who are also in charge of it, or one of our opinions on ATS? I know some of us think we know everything, better than the experts, but what they outlined in that letter is most likely the best course of action to make what OP points out as important, a possibility.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Well crafted...thanks.

The op has asked, should ICE be abolished and then would immigration be solved, or would there be far greater problem.

After looking at this, and seeing much, and a bit of research the following can be stated:

The immigration problems that are being seen today, ultimately started back during World War II. And since then no solutions ever came forth, and no real solutions. Many of the problems seen today, are the direct result of US policies. Truth is that the federal government does not want this issue to be solved, not the Democrats nor the Republicans.
Here is a bit of history, rather short and to the point:
During World War II, the US was involved in a war, lacking the manpower to do some industries, like farming, and laborers from primarily Mexico and to some degree Latin America, were invited in to come and work the fields and in some industries to support the war effort. It was successful, and when the war ended, the program did not, rather there were fights to keep it going. Now, around 1953, the President Eisenhower, gave a speech, where he mentioned about the problem of illegal immigrants, coming into the country. It was known then to be a major problem, and it should have been within the power of congress to end and solve, but they did not. It was used time and time again as a political issue, though often kept in reserve only serving to divert attention from other issues, even going quiet.

During the Korean conflict, the very first allegations of the CIA trafficking in drugs, surfaced in 1949. Later on, during the Vietnam conflict, the CIA was getting involved in such to start having slush funds to continue on some of the operations that they were engaged in, thus eliminating funding debates in congress. Even this practice continued into the 1980’s with the entire coc aine flooding the streets of the USA. This led to the faster rising of the drug cartels, as they were making money as well.

During that time frame, the USA was heavily involved in South and Latin America, as part of cold war policy, of preventing the spread of communism, and thus the US started to back many of the rebel groups in Latin and South American countries, like the Contras. However, as has been seen before, in many third world countries, conflicts rarely stay within one border, but often spread to other countries, in the area. A good tactic base in a neighbor country and then launch gorilla fights into the other country. During that time frame money and arms flowed into the hands of those groups.

The war on drugs amped up and removed the Columbian cartels, that created a power vacuum in the routes, where the middle men started to take over and start their own trade and continue on with the business. That is where many of the drug cartels in Mexico started.

During the 1980’s, when Regan was running for President, he was far more lax on immigration issues than what is seen today, and even stated that we needed to assist Mexico and be good neighbors, or wake up to finding that Mexico has become a hostile nation. And from the current looks at the political talk there, looks like it just may become hostile with one election.

And up until a few years ago, there was a virtual slave class in this country, the United States of America, the undocumented/illegal immigrants, who lived in the shadows, often targeted by criminals and abused by US employers, all on the threat of deportation, to where they worked for far less than any other person works. And people complaining that their jobs are being taken, yet never seem to get up and go out to pick crops or even do the kinds of jobs that one would see the migrant labor doing.

Add to that the fact that the immigration system in the US is very underfunded, and understaffed, where they are not able to operate effectively. Even a foreign national is entitled to protections under the law, yet due to the lack of people to do the jobs required, and the sheer number of cases, makes it all but impossible, with so many cases, there are years worth of court cases to be handled by very few. Added into a poor way of tracking, kind of makes this a total mess.

So how is the mess going to be cleaned up?
Mass deportations will not work, they never have, usually it means that those who are legal end up in the mix, and then we end up paying millions to settle a case that should never have been brought up before. And then the claims of discrimination and racial profiling happens. Nor is a wall or a fence the solution either.

The solution is going to hurt, and neither side is going to be happy about the solution.

a reply to: neo96
Well they have dumped the prisons before, it didn't work out that well. Dump the prisons and let folk come in illegally, and it become a crap pile.

Folks are just following their programming, they are not thinking this thing through.

The issue of abolishing ICE is a democratic stupid idea. They are going to blow the election concentrating on nonsense like that