Let's stop the nonsense - There are only two genders

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I don't want the church or the SJW in charge of defining who anyone is.

Yet you refuse to acknowledge the existence of multiple genders.

So what you are saying is that you refuse to recognise how people define themselves because you basically don't believe that their gender exists.

Surly you have got to be seeing the glaring holes in your own arguments hear?

There are only two sexes. There are only two genders. Reality.

I'm happy to concede to others whatever they want to believe themselves to be. If that makes them happy or more able to function in this world, so be it:. It still doesn't change..Reality.

Mental constructs and subjectives definitions of ones gender, while real to an individual, are not real. There are, therefore, 7billion plus genders because each of us define ourselves in a way that is unique to ourselves regardless of the pronouns we use. This has been settled science for a long time. Yes there are abberations.

Appealing to the UN or sociologists to define for us is an argument from authority that I don't subscribe to.

Let's let others be free to define themselves however they wish without turning reality on its head.

Two. We are binary. That is a settled scientific fact.

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: Isurrender73

Do you understand the difference between sex and gender?

One is physical and one is psychological? Know which is which?

I understand that.

I don't believe we need any lable outside of genetics for medical purposes. I believe we can just be who we are and be satisfied with that. And that everyone should accept everyone for who they are and respect everyones right to change who they are whenever it makes sense to them regardless of some label.

"Who we are" as an individual is more then genetics. It's a constantly evolving aggregate of many influences?

You sound like we are only one trait and remain only that single trait throughout life.

Even for people who's sex and gender conform to the M/F paradigm, we are constantly changing our sense of self. And sense of self is not in genetics (though tendencies may be) it's psychology.

Open your mind, there is a whole universe to explore but first find a way to explore yourself.

Remember "The unexamined life is not worth living." (attributed to Socrates by Plato)

Even in the Multi-Gender acceptance collective, they give it away... LGBTQ.

The B = Bi Sexual... Definition of bi- : two.
... so what two things are they referring to, if not the two genders?

Py

originally posted by: FyreByrd

"Who we are" as an individual is more then genetics. It's a constantly evolving aggregate of many influences?

You sound like we are only one trait and remain only that single trait throughout life.

Even for people who's sex and gender conform to the M/F paradigm, we are constantly changing our sense of self. And sense of self is not in genetics (though tendencies may be) it's psychology.

I agree with you. Whatever words we chose to define ourselves with today may be irrelevant tomorrow. So why is it so important to lable ourselves at all?

We biologically lable ourselves because it makes medical sense.

To psychologically label ourselves seems to pigeonhole us into trying to fit some lable that might not reflect who we are tomorrow. If a lable is that fluid why label it at all?

Why not just be happy to be whatever we are and have friends that love us and support us regardless of how we chose to present ourselves each day.

I don't want my child to try to fit any lable. I don't want her to read through all the definitions of all the lables and try to decide which one she fits into. I prefer my child to be a unique individual capable of expressing herself each day however she decides.

And regardless of any decision she makes or how she chooses to express herself I will love her. I don't need society on either side pushing their lables or their ideas on my child. Her mind will develop and she can be whatever her heart leads her to be.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
The term “gender” has been used to describe sex since the 15th century. It was only in the late 60s that feminism asserted that gender pertains to societal roles. The science on the latter designation is far from settled, and I would argue it is pseudoscience.

Spot on!
I did laugh at the 'academic consensus' comment one poster made... hilarious.
There are two genders, obviously.

The word 'sex' has been used interchangeably with gender for generations. Now people want to change the meaning of the word to do exactly as you pointed out - to suit their weird narrative. But that narrative has nothing to do with either of the two genders really, it's driven by a mental disorder and a failure to grasp simple reality.

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: FyreByrd

"Who we are" as an individual is more then genetics. It's a constantly evolving aggregate of many influences?

You sound like we are only one trait and remain only that single trait throughout life.

Even for people who's sex and gender conform to the M/F paradigm, we are constantly changing our sense of self. And sense of self is not in genetics (though tendencies may be) it's psychology.

Why not just be happy to be whatever we are and have friends that love us and support us regardless of how we chose to present ourselves each day.

Because the sex label can become difficult for people undergoing surgeries to reassign their Sex. A fully reassigned M to F person will be place in a Male holding facility if the Sex on their Driver's license doesn't conform to their gross anatomy.

Being able to have their records reflect their current physical state is important. Hopefully they do have people who love them however they may present over the years, but reality and breauocracy only look at the 'record'.

What if she wanted to apply for a loan as a women owned business? What if she wanted to use a women only gym?

Today the technology exists to change the gross manifestation of sex to complement our gender identity should a person wish that. And we need to evolve as a society to deal with it.

30 years ago, many systems could not deal with a women who did not take her husbands last name upon marriage, we have evolved to include that option and we need to include those options for those who's lives are affected.

originally posted by: Metallicus
You have science on you side.

The only argument they have are “how they feel”.

Too many science deniers.

Spending a snip load of money on cosmetic changes and taking pharmaceuticals makes men in to women and vice versa.

DNA be damned.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

Because the sex label can become difficult for people undergoing surgeries to reassign their Sex. A fully reassigned M to F person will be place in a Male holding facility if the Sex on their Driver's license doesn't conform to their gross anatomy.

Being able to have their records reflect their current physical state is important. Hopefully they do have people who love them however they may present over the years, but reality and breauocracy only look at the 'record'.

What if she wanted to apply for a loan as a women owned business? What if she wanted to use a women only gym?

As far as criminal institutions go I believe it is unfair to any party invoved to be subjected to an environment that would make them uncomfortable.

However, I include biological men and women who have not reassigned in my argument. Therefore the only fair way to deal with reassignment is to give them seperate facilities. As no one should be forced into an uncomfortable situation. I would include any public institutions in upholding this idea of seperate facilities for the reassigned.

I imagine we should let the private gym dictate their own policies and not force people into uncomfortable situations.

As for sports the only logical answer is to have them compete against those who are biologically similar. Taking hormones does not remove the advantage that a male who has reassigned to a female will have over biological females. The only other option is to remove gender from sports which will eliminate all the great work that woman have done for equal access to athletics.

I personally am not uncomfortable about any of the scenarios. But I am not trying to force anyone to accept anything they are uncomfortable with. We will evolve as a society and IMO it's premature to force any particular direction.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Isurrender73

Let’s stop the nonsense there is no God. So you can stop using that as an excuse to tell people what to do and how to be.

Prove there is no God.

I wonder what happen if a business decided to put signs up on the doors to their restrooms only showing:

XX

XY

How would people react?

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Isurrender73

Let’s stop the nonsense there is no God. So you can stop using that as an excuse to tell people what to do and how to be.

Prove there is no God.

You cannot prove a negative.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Isurrender73

Let’s stop the nonsense there is no God. So you can stop using that as an excuse to tell people what to do and how to be.

Prove there is no God.

You cannot prove a negative.

Exactly.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
When a person is concieved they are assigned a gender by God or by Nature, whatever you believe about such is not important in this debate.

I've heard it said that doctors incorrectly assigned a gender at birth. And even those calling for birth certificates void of the distinction between male and female.

The doctor did not make a mistake. The doctor does not arbitrarily assign a gender. The doctor merely reported the biological facts. If you go to a doctor and you are biologically a male but chose to identify as a woman should the doctor then screen you for ovarian cancer and ignore your prostate? Or should he ignore your overies and check your prostate if you are a woman who identifies as a man?

No amount of hormones or reconstructive surgery can change these biological facts.

The problem is for some reason society has decided that we must label ourselves according to our feelings and sexual orientations. Neither of these things actually change your gender. Your gender is a biological fact that cannot be changed or denied. You can only change your outward appearance which in no way actually changes your biological identity.

The problem is not the biological definition of man and woman because biologically there are only 2 genders. I am not going to comment on the rare cases where gender is not well defined at birth. They can define themselves however they choose.

The problem is the psychological and sociological definition of male and female. These are things that can actually be changed.

There are numerous personality traits and sexual orientations that can be part of the biological group male and the same can be said for the biological group female.

We need to realize in a world of 7 billion people it is ok to have 7 billion different definitions of the psychological and sociological definition of male and female.

It is far better psychologically to teach our children that a boy or girl is whatever he or she wants to be. And his or her sexual orientation is whatever he or she decides. And the same thing could be said about the clothing we chose to wear and the way we chose to express ourselves to the world.

Making or encouraging children who feel one way or another about their gender chose some outward appearance is just as bad as trying to force them to fit into the current sociological definition of male and female.

These concepts are confusing to children and likely to lead to confusion and other psychological problems. It seems to me that those who want to lable themselves based on sexual orientation are pushing those lables on children who are not even mature enough to fully understand sexual orientation or their sociological identity.

It would be much better to tell our kids to be who they are and express themselves in whatever way they feel is appropriate for them without trying define who they are or who they should be. And at an appropriate time or age we should discuss with them that sexual orientation is a choice that they should make based on how they feel and not necessarily what sociological gender roles dictate.

We should encourage our children and ourselves to make loving and lasting bonds with people who accept us for who we are. And for those inclined to be sexual to chose from your friends an appropriate partner. Not that sexuality is necessary but that it is a choice that the majority tend to make. For those who believe in commited relations as it pertains to sexuality they should chose someone like minded who accepts them for who they are.

There are only 2 genders. But there is an unlimited number of ways to define those two genders. No definition should be forced apon anyone. But our biological gender is part of who we are and we should not feel ashamed of it, nor promote the idea that anyone should be. Any label forces us into an ideology that may or may not reflect who we are or who may become.

Can we stop the nonsense and attack the situation logically instead of emotionally?

Yeah...this pretty much sums up my thoughts. I don't care what people want to believe they are or call themselves or if they're trapped in thr wrong body or whatever but biologically you're either one or the other or (in the rare case )maybe some combination or somewhere in between. Everything else is just thoughts in your head. Which is fine, most things exist just as thoughts in your head, but there's still a difference between the two.

I was born a woman and proud to be one.I did take some
of these online "tests" and one was how do you think,like
a man or woman? Some were getting mixed genders in their
%'s.When I got my results,I was told that I think 100% like a
man.

Hmm. Your idea is complicated by the fact that there are literally more than two genders.

a reply to: Isurrender73

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
There are two genders.
but
some people do fall in the middle of them

Inbetwenders?

originally posted by: gr8skott
Hmm. Your idea is complicated by the fact that there are literally more than two genders.

a reply to: Isurrender73

How many?

a reply to: Isurrender73

He, She and It...Looks like 3 genders to me...

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Isurrender73

Let’s stop the nonsense there is no God. So you can stop using that as an excuse to tell people what to do and how to be.

Prove there is no God.

I expect better logic from you.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope


“There are many ways that a baby can be born “inter-sexed”. For example, a person might be born appearing to be female on the outside, but having mostly male-typical anatomy on the inside. Or a person may be born with genitals that seem to be in-between the usual male and female types—for example, a girl may be born with a noticeably large clitoris, or lacking a vaginal opening, or a boy may be born with a notably small penis, or with a scrotum that is divided so that it has formed more like labia. Or a person may be born with mosaic genetics, so that some of her cells have XX chromosomes and some of them have XY.” www.isna.org...