Socialism Takes Over America... Could it Happen?

a reply to: dfnj2015

Promote the general welfare DOES NOT MEAN rob from the haves and give to the so called have nots ALL so they can go out and BUY MORE STUFF.

General Welfare taxation was a power given to the STATE to pay ITS OWN GD BILLS, not ours.

originally posted by: rickymouse
Real socialism would be good, but I doubt if that is what will happen in America. The type of socialism being pushed here is just a transfer of power to a group of unruly and pushy people who will blast anyone that does not follow along with their beliefs..

The problems with our country are NOT rocket science. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. You know we have NO free markets in this country because of exorbitant CEO pay. There are no market mechanisms to wring out inefficiencies in CEO pay.

Here's how you know we have too many monopolies and cartels:

Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers: Purchasing Power of the Consumer Dollar

It doesn't matter what you pay in taxes. It doesn't matter what you make in wages. What DOES matter is the purchasing power of you take home pay!!

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: neo96
More people have died from poverty created by laissez-faire capitalism than socialism. Poverty kills.

Bull and crap.

Just because you are an a hole who doesn't care about anyone but yourself doesn't make it "Bull and crap":

1) 767 million people, or 10.7 percent of the population, live in extreme poverty with less than $1.90 per day.

2) 2.1 billion people live on less than $3.10 per day.

3) 328 million children are living in extreme poverty.

4) At least 17 million children suffer from severe acute undernutrition around the world. Severe acute malnutrition is the direct cause of death for 1 million children every year.

5)Every single day, 1,000 children under 5 die from illnesses like diarrhoea, dysentery, and cholera caused by contaminated water and inadequate sanitation.

The vast majority of those people don't live in capitalist societies either...

American is so wealthy from capitalism that even our poor are practically part of the 1% globally in terms of income and standard of living.

Poor in America means having a functioning home, air conditioning, TV, shoes, clothes, food, school, cell phones, etc. The poor in America are not dying from dysentery, malaria, nor do our kids crawl through massive garbage dumps looking for food.

a reply to: FamCore

Yes, anything is possible as it pertains to federal government who is voted in by people who increasingly demonstrate that they want more and more "free stuff" without thinking about the long-range consequences of it.

Look at the history of America as it has progressed from the ratification of the COTUS onward--we are increasingly taking money from our citizenry and redistributing it to others, or using it on programs that the federal government was never intended to control. Our government already controls many aspects of peoples' lives, even though we still have some semblance of private property (although 15 feet of what I "own" still can be controlled by my county, and I just had to pay $632 and go before a board of people just so that I can have a deck off of my main floor that will only be 27 feet from the property line instead of the mandated 30...and behind my house is nothing but field and woods).

We still relatively work for our own paycheck and get to use that money as we see fit, although the percentage that we are forcibly told we must give to a government entity keeps dwindling and dwindling (it was barely more than 100 years ago that there was not an income tax at all).

For these and many other reasons, I absolutely believe that America can one day become a socialist nation, which will mark the end of America. We see it far too often, and Venezuala is just a very recent depictions, where something meant to be relatively democratic (although we're a constitutional republic, I get that) turns into a socialist hellhole full of misery and corruption.

We already have the corruption at the government level--the only thing that still really holds us together is that, on average, Americans are still relatively happy with how our daily lives are going.

When that optimism is truly gone, you will see the beginnings of the end, and I think that's the underlying goal of things are going--the divide-and-conquer methods of the corrupt are beginning to win the day. The media seems only out to spark further division amongst the American people who are following along and paying attention (although not always critically thinking). The politicians are doing the same things, too (Trump and Waters are good examples of inciting anger against "the other side").

I used to think that apathy was the cancer of Americans, but as I'm typing this, maybe it's the only glue that's still holding us together--those who ignore politics and just live their lives day-to-day, enjoying the moment instead of focusing on the hypotheticals and fears of the politically enraged.

Maybe that's why the media, and late-night TV, and regular TV shows, and politicians, and activists, and social media are all trying so hard to get people emotionally charged and active...

a reply to: dfnj2015

The problems with our country are NOT rocket science.

Sure isn't.

Socialism is social engineering.

Changing the environment to suit a political view by destroying the very thing that creates innovation.

ADVERISTY.

a reply to: dfnj2015

The problems are the people who have forgotten where we came from and the principles America was founded on. That includes everyone, on either end of the spectrum.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: rickymouse
Real socialism would be good, but I doubt if that is what will happen in America. The type of socialism being pushed here is just a transfer of power to a group of unruly and pushy people who will blast anyone that does not follow along with their beliefs..

The problems with our country are NOT rocket science. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. You know we have NO free markets in this country because of exorbitant CEO pay. There are no market mechanisms to wring out inefficiencies in CEO pay.

Here's how you know we have too many monopolies and cartels:

Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers: Purchasing Power of the Consumer Dollar

It doesn't matter what you pay in taxes. It doesn't matter what you make in wages. What DOES matter is the purchasing power of you take home pay!!

WTF are you talking about... CEO pay is solely determined by the Board of Directors and shareholders of a company. If you don't like CEO pay, go by some shares , attend a shareholder meeting, and demand the Board reduce their comp.

a reply to: Edumakated

Wait what ?

People can actually buy shares in evil corporations and become co owners ?

Good luck convincing socialists of this truth.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: dfnj2015

Promote the general welfare DOES NOT MEAN rob from the haves and give to the so called have nots ALL so they can go out and BUY MORE STUFF.

General Welfare taxation was a power given to the STATE to pay ITS OWN GD BILLS, not ours.

I disagree with you. Marx criticized capitalism because workers get paid as little as possible while capitalist get rich. The capitalists shrink wages in order to maximize profit. The capitalist then think profit is a reward for ingenuity and talent, Marx profit is simply theft because the capitalists are stealing the talent and hard work of the capitalist workforce.

So the theft or robbery you are talking about goes both ways!!!

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: dfnj2015

Promote the general welfare DOES NOT MEAN rob from the haves and give to the so called have nots ALL so they can go out and BUY MORE STUFF.

General Welfare taxation was a power given to the STATE to pay ITS OWN GD BILLS, not ours.

I disagree with you. Marx criticized capitalism because workers get paid as little as possible while capitalist get rich. The capitalists shrink wages in order to maximize profit. The capitalist then think profit is a reward for own ingenuity and talent, Marx said profit is simply theft because the capitalists are stealing the talent and hard work of the capitalist workforce.

So the theft or robbery you are talking about goes both ways!!!

I am not so sure that people voted FOR the socialist. I think perhaps they voted AGAINST the 10-term incumbent.
What we really need are Congressional term limits.

a reply to: dfnj2015

I disagree with you. Marx criticized capitalism because workers get paid as little as possible while capitalist get rich

Marx LIES.

Just like all socialists that LIE.

They are GREEDY and materialistic as what they are supposedly decrying.

a reply to: Edumakated

This is what I am talking about:



Just because you ignore how bad it is doesn't mean it isn't really bad.

originally posted by: BlueAjah
I am not so sure that people voted FOR the socialist. I think perhaps they voted AGAINST the 10-term incumbent.
What we really need are Congressional term limits.

FDR was a socialist and that's why we even got term limits to begin with.

a reply to: Edumakated

You simply can't ignore wealth inequality is at all time highs in this country.

"An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.

Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government."

Speech before the 1936 Democratic National Convention

a reply to: dfnj2015

You simply can't ignore wealth inequality is at all time highs in this country.

Only if you ignore current wage and benefit of millions around the country.

There's never been a time in this countries history that people have been paid more and had MORE BENEFITS.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Edumakated

This is what I am talking about:

Just because you ignore how bad it is doesn't mean it isn't really bad.

You can post that stupid video 15 billion times. It doesn't change basic economic facts. You can also deflect from the fact you clearly don't know anything about how CEOs wages are determined, stock ownership, and the like.

At no point in history has there ever been wealth equality. EVER.

What you fail to grasp is that while the rich are in fact getting wealthy, more and more people are moving out of poverty and into the middle class as well. Hardly anyone in western society except real losers stays lower income their entire lives. While I have a 1% household income TODAY, 20 years ago I would have been considered poor being I had little to no income.

The vast majority of people who also make it to the top 1% don't even stay in the top 1% either.

Sure, Jeff Bezos has extreme wealth being worth like $100 billion, but he has also created TRILLIONS in wealth for other people. Think of the hundreds of thousands of people he employs. All the ancillary businesses that are thriving because of Amazon - ad agencies, law firms, small businesses, real estate. There is a reason are chomping at the bit to be chosen for Amazon's new headquarters location.

As usual, we'd have to me talking about actual socialism to have a factual discussion on the topic.

The US has a mixed economy with a social safety net system in place. The markets are free with necessary regulations and controls in place to insure that the public health and welfare is protected.

Much like our Constitutional democratic republic, we have had the best of all possible systems in place politically, economically and with a slow evolution, socially.

As Franklin said "if we can keep it."

Once there are no more jobs left because socialists have made it more expensive to run a business.

The future becomes THIS.



Then those morons will want to give them pay and benefits too.

Crazy right ?

slate.com...

And the merry go round goes round and round.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: dfnj2015

Looks like some very skewed so called stastics.

Oddly more than the US population.

Gotta love socialist math!

Why is it people on the right are so mean and nasty. Why is it that people on the right have no compassion. How can you call yourself a "good" Christian with what is going on in this country. There are hundreds of articles on poverty:

Poverty Kills More People Every Year Than Either of the Top Killers -- Heart Disease or Cancer

I do not accept the idea there's nothing we can do because ALL government is bad and ALL taxation is bad but ALL military spending is good. I just don't agree with the way you right wingers think. You are all a bunch a jerks.