More fake protesting of the immigration issue? Ugh..

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Isurrender73

No one is "blaming" Trump for enforcing the law. There is more than one way to enforce this particular law, however.

Do you have any evidence on the failure of catch-and-release? If so, that would be a more compelling argument.

Does 30 billion on a wall and the ensuing growth of government to patrol the wall strike you as being fiscally responsible when it's unnecessary?

Not me.

Well, you were wrong about democrats not advocating for open borders. Perhaps you're wrong here as well?

a reply to: strongfp

So what is the reasoning behind separating children from parents once they are detained at the boarder? Why is that a law?

It's not a law in itself... it is the result of laws.

When a group containing children, let's give them the benefit of the doubt for a moment and call them a family unit, crosses the border illegally and is apprehended, the adults are charged with violating the law. Border Patrol has the authority to send them back immediately, unless one of them requests asylum. When that happens, they are entitled to a hearing in front of an immigration judge, who has the authority to grant asylum. If asylum is granted, they are not deported and the border crossing charge is dropped.

It is supposed to be that the hearing happens fairly quickly, a matter of a few weeks or months at the outside. But due to the sheer number of asylum seekers, that time frame is not possible... asylum cases can take up to two years to get to the hearing. In the meantime, the adults in the family are a flight risk... they have no means of support, no belongings to leave behind, and no real benefit to show up at a hearing that they may not be granted asylum in. If they are released, the vast majority indeed do not show up for their own hearing, which means they have no chance of being granted asylum. So the law says that as a flight risk, they must be detained until the hearing.

The children care not detained, because they are not old enough to be legally responsible for their actions. They are not charged with a crime, but it is not reasonable to simply let them walk off... they are children and their parents are in detention. So what do we do with them? The present situation is that they are housed in temporary holding facilities until a relative can be found. Again, the sheer number of these children is so great that we cannot physically house them all in optimal surroundings... we have to use quickly-constructed units, usually composed of warehouse-style metal buildings and chain link fencing.

The chain link is there for two reasons: first, it is cheap and quick to build. Second, it is open and allows air circulation under a metal roof that is essentially working like a oven broiler. It gets tremendously hot under the sun around the southern border. That's another reason for the metallized reflective blankets... they can actually keep someone cooler under those circumstances.

If we can find a relative, the children are turned over to them. If not, they have to go somewhere, and the only two options are to turn them loose to fend for themselves (that would be a horrible thing to do!) or relocate them in a foster home. There are only so many foster homes, so that takes time.

A judge has decreed that children cannot be held at the border for longer than 20 days, so detaining them with the parents is not possible. It also might not be wise; adults with children claiming to be parents or relatives, but actually being human traffickers, is a common occurrence.

So the law says that we have to keep the parents in detention if they ask for asylum until their hearing... the law says we cannot keep the children there for more than 20 days... the law says the children have to be reunited with relatives where feasible... and there are so many we can't speed up the process. There is no law that says the children have to be separated from parents, but the laws do make it impossible to not separate them from the parents.

Congress could fix this easily if they would. Simply pass a law that allows for the detention of children in a more humane environment for a longer period and fund the needed facilities. Trump has tried to help the issue by signing an Executive Order to retrofit unused military bases to house them in better conditions. Sessions is trying to help by limiting who can apply for asylum and hopefully reduce the backlog. Only the Congressional plan will work optimally, but at least the others are being tried. What are the protestors doing to help? Are they making suggestions? Taking in children? lobbying their Congressmen?

No... they're holding up signs and yelling insults at the only people who are even trying to fix the problem. That's not just sad... it's ridiculous, counterproductive, and ineffective in the extreme.

TheRedneck

People acting like the poor separated children are the reason of these protests are beyond disingenuous.

If this were reported by the MSM in the same manner under Obama, people would excuse it away by telling themselves “it’s best for the country” or “it’s the law” or “I love Obama”

But since Trump is president and this being reported on, the left prefers to tell themselves “do what’s best for these families illegally entering the country” and “they must change the law” and “I hate Trump”

GD hypocrites. Pure & simple.

The most significant point is this - IT’S BEING REPORTED ON.

If it weren’t being reported on, people wouldn’t give a flying f**k and you all know it!!!

Thank your masters, the MSM.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

And it's not emotional the way some people are acting towards the illegals? Fear is an emotion, while others show a complete lack of emotion

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: network dude

You first.

Why do you attempt to denigrate the people that you don't agree with? Do your arguments not stand on their own merits?

I guess you decided to not fetch you're debate skills either?

Maybe not, but I brought my grammar manual, where's yours?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: network dude

You first.

Why do you attempt to denigrate the people that you don't agree with? Do your arguments not stand on their own merits?

I guess you decided to not fetch you're debate skills either?

Maybe not, but I brought my grammar manual, where's yours?

Oh shoot. Lemme just switch over from my web app to my grammar app.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: network dude

You first.

Why do you attempt to denigrate the people that you don't agree with? Do your arguments not stand on their own merits?

Ah yes the good ole grammar card that’ll show em’!

I guess you decided to not fetch you're debate skills either?

Maybe not, but I brought my grammar manual, where's yours?

Ah the good ole grammar card, that’ll surely show him your mastery of relevant debate!

originally posted by: conspiracy nut
a reply to: Wardaddy454

And it's not emotional the way some people are acting towards the illegals? Fear is an emotion, while others show a complete lack of emotion

The majority of people are saying come the legal way. They are not saying don't come at all.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Until Congress fixes immigration I'd keep doing what Bush and Obama were doing. After all illegal attempts have been going down every year from about 2001 onward eh? I would also be using my influence with Congress to get legislation I considered fair passed with no agenda.

Speaking of the wall.... hasn't a barrier across the southern border already been legislated? I would concentrate on that if I really thought a physical barrier was the best answer.

a reply to: kurthall
Unfortunately children in the system are given drugs quite recklessly, in my opinion. There are many foster parents that have been threaten with removal of the children from their care when they try to take their foster children off the medications.

It has been a long and unsuccessful battle. Now that so many are being outraged by the drugging of children of illegal immigrants, maybe American born children will also be saved from this same practice.

I am hoping since they have been so successful with galvanizing those people that are so suddenly outraged with behavior that has gone on for decades, because it works to promote their agenda, that those same people will be just as stimulated to work for their American children and brethren that have endured the same indignities, but with little support or care from the masses.

a reply to: BigDave-AR

Trivial attacks sometimes deserve trivial responses.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Lazy posts receive trivial attacks. I guess you only have yourself to blame.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: BigDave-AR

Trivial attacks sometimes deserve trivial responses.

If we all insisted on racing eachother to the bottom society wouldn’t get along too well.

How do you expect there to be any progress at the border with all this outcry and calls to abolish ICE and undermine attempts to work this out? This is just muddying the waters further than they already are.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

It should be noted that those coming in legally are not separated from their children.

That's seems to be lost in this emotional debate.

The message isn't getting through about entering illegally even with this campaign from 2015 from the US to Central American Countries.

Link

The head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection launched an advertising campaign on Tuesday aimed at dissuading Central Americans from trying to enter the United States illegally and avoid the influx of the tens of thousands who tried to come last year.

Commissioner Gil Kerlikowske said the message of the campaign, which will appear on television, radio stations, social media and posters in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala, is very simple.

“It is very, very dangerous,” Kerlikowske said of the journey at the launch in San Diego. “And you are not going to be allowed to claim that you are eligible (to remain in the United States.)”

The $1.2 million campaign, called “Know the Facts,” emphasizes that U.S. law and policy lead to immediate deportation and offer no relief for undocumented immigrants.

They aren't listening, so what are we to do to discourage them?


On a side note, why is Mexico not doing anything to stop them entering on their southern border?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: network dude

You first.

Why do you attempt to denigrate the people that you don't agree with? Do your arguments not stand on their own merits?

You got it wrong. it is YOU who has to prove what you said first.

There's currently a group of lefties down my street protesting against the sun being too hot.

originally posted by: conspiracy nut
a reply to: Wardaddy454

And it's not emotional the way some people are acting towards the illegals? Fear is an emotion, while others show a complete lack of emotion

The law is the law. no emotion needed.

originally posted by: MysticPearl
There's currently a group of lefties down my street protesting against the sun being too hot.

I’m not left but I can get on board with that currently sitting at 97 with 50% humidity it’s not as bad as it has been but it’s been hotttt!

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: notsure1

Not playing fetch today; Google is your friend though.

Lol, makes claim, but doesn't provide source.

Weak argument.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Until Congress fixes immigration I'd keep doing what Bush and Obama were doing. After all illegal attempts have been going down every year from about 2001 onward eh?

What Bush and Obama did was to release the illegal immigrants on their promise to reappear for their hearing. That obviously was not working, witness the massive percentage who never showed back up. For every one that refused to show up for their hearing, that is one more person in the country illegally. It might not show up on reports, because they were apprehended and processed, but in reality it simply kept the influx of illegal immigrants coming... and growing.

Trump, well, actually Sessions, required that their status as flight risks was taken into account... just like everyone else.

Speaking of the wall.... hasn't a barrier across the southern border already been legislated? I would concentrate on that if I really thought a physical barrier was the best answer.

Legislated, yes. Funded. no. That's why Trump was able to order the samples.

With the Democrats so adamant against a wall, funding will only succeed if Trump can force a compromise using associated issues like DACA (which he is trying to do) or if the GOP reaches a 60-vote majority in the Senate. While the "blue wave" is looking more like a ripple, I don't see that kind of GOP gain the Senate in the upcoming midterms.

TheRedneck