Rising conservative star Jordan Peterson in debate: "Athiesm leads to murder"

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: the2ofusr1

Yes, you're right about instilling good qualities into children. However, kids left to their own devices don't all turn into 'Lord of the Flies.' It's as if moral compasses are already built in and some just need theirs recalibrating from time to time. We all know good parents with the black sheep kid and the bad parents who manage to produce a good kid. Experience shapes us all and I still suspect people are born with some form of moral compass.

a reply to: Raggedyman

People are people are people and the majority have a moral code. I have no problem with your religious beliefs and if you believe God created everything, it's cool. There's no incentive to argue otherwise and I accept you have a moral compass. It's just absurd to profess how atheists have no moral compass.

I like a lot of your posts, but not the ones that include sandbagging an ambitious assertion for 30 pages.

I have never and never will say atheists don't have an individual moral compass, again that's projecting on me what I don't believe
I know and have personal relationships with atheists who are better human beings than many Christians I know, no question
Your argument is wrong

What I am saying is that atheists can pick and choose what they want to based on their own feelings
That's the argument Peterson is making, their morals are subjective
Christian morals though they may well be subjective, shouldn't be

Christians, good bad indifferent, succeed or fail, have a clear and defined moral foundation
Do atheists and if they do, what and where do they come from

The question is still out there

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: Raggedyman


This is the most stupid argument I have ever had with anyone on ats ever
The idea that society doesn't need laws

except that is not what i said. not even close
not really my problem if you dont understand.

i will say it again though

it would be nice of our laws and constructs were not based on some magic that does not and has not ever existed. that would be a great start.

i want religion out of it.
i do not want laws and policies written or based on rules or guidelines from the bible.

that # needs to go

Stalin did that
Mao as well
Pol Pot too

The list is awesome, we should put you in charge
Really can't believe you are a rational human being

originally posted by: toysforadults
First off how are you defining your atheism?

Is the difference between right and wrong for an atheist dependent on the circumstance or is the a higher set of defined values that you base your moral judgement on and where did that defined set of values come from?

If it hurts people, you probably shouldn't do it, unless not doing so would hurt them more. Just kind of made that up on my own without the help of any ancient books or imaginary beings. Not that complicated.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Christians, good bad indifferent, succeed or fail, have a clear and defined moral foundation
Do atheists and if they do, what and where do they come from

I was raised by my father, he was a total atheist and made that clear. When I was younger, I believed the same. I avoided as much as I could, hurting anything. I played in the garden lots, I always thought all life was precious. It took a long time for my father to convince me, that slugs had to die.
Aside from the most basic rule (do unto others as you would like others to do unto you), it FEELS really bad to hurt another creature. Maybe it's genetics, my mom was the same way.
It's just in some people, the same way we fight for our own survival, we fight for the survival of others too.

There's also no possible way that this is built in to everyone, including people that claim to be religious in whichever religion.
Many people, religious or not, are hypocrites, or just asses in general. Many supposed Christians say they have a moral compass, but it's very lacking and not very moral or ethical....

I wonder how religious Neanderthal and other ancient beings were🤔, and what their morals were like?

a reply to: the2ofusr1

what i mean is i dont want things written by man to be based on magic.
it is hard to get what i am trying to say across. i know humans created all this.

i just want things to be fair for all.

we all know that religion plays a part in many aspects of our society. that time has passed

i dont want there to be a debate about birth control pills and if insurance will pay for them and if john q pharmacist can refuse to fill them based on his religious bull#.

that kind of stuff

fill the prescription.
i can not entertain arguments against these things when they are based on religion.

the whole gay marriage issue.

cause the bible defines marriage between a man and a woman blah blah horse#.

i have no time for it

there are always going to be rules and laws and customs and those are always going to be based on artificial constructs created by human. and they are always going to create problems.

it is never going to be utopia. too many people stacked on top of each other. too many different cultures. too many different ways to bring your kids up. just too much.
for lack of a better word we are forced into this and are forced to play by these artificial rules.
most of them benefit everyone.

dont kill me. i wont kill you
benefits everyone.

you can get married and you cant is a serious problem. as an example


facts are society/societies are going to work until they dont.
history has shown us that.

it is going to be a rinse and repeat with little differences in the rules and laws


i just want to be on a repeat cycle where religion plays zero part in any of it

originally posted by: snowspirit
a reply to: Raggedyman

Christians, good bad indifferent, succeed or fail, have a clear and defined moral foundation
Do atheists and if they do, what and where do they come from

I was raised by my father, he was a total atheist and made that clear. When I was younger, I believed the same. I avoided as much as I could, hurting anything. I played in the garden lots, I always thought all life was precious. It took a long time for my father to convince me, that slugs had to die.
Aside from the most basic rule (do unto others as you would like others to do unto you), it FEELS really bad to hurt another creature. Maybe it's genetics, my mom was the same way.
It's just in some people, the same way we fight for our own survival, we fight for the survival of others too.

That's wonderful snowy, really nice

But Stalin was an atheist who killed millions, so was Mao. Neither believed what you believed, so based on their and your atheism, why do you think they did the wrong thing

See I can sy that I believe murder is wrong based on what Jesus taught, what do you base your beliefs on murder being wrong, why should other atheists agree with your opinion

a reply to: snowspirit

What do you know about your grand parents ? or their parents ?

Christians have a clear, defined moral foundation, but that foundation was completely made up and written down by people just like us. It isn't handed down by any "higher power". So what is to prevent an atheist from legitimately basing his morality on some OTHER book(s) or ideas(s), and what makes one particular book or set of human-conceived ideas more legitimate as a source of morality than another?

a reply to: Raggedyman

stupid point
the world is all good now?

give me a break man

whatever.
i feel how i feel
you feel how you feel

not changing that

originally posted by: Raggedyman
[
But Stalin was an atheist who killed millions, so was Mao. Neither believed what you believed, so based on their and your atheism, why do you think they did the wrong thing

See I can sy that I believe murder is wrong based on what Jesus taught, what do you base your beliefs on murder being wrong, why should other atheists agree with your opinion

more stalin
hahahahahahhaahh

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Southern Guardian

Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin and Bret Weinstein’s are all fame whores who through pity party’s over the fact they got heat on the internet from random nobodies. Then pretended like it was proof of some sestemic problem the left has with free speech.


They are all 3 jokes and the more they talk the dumber they make themselves look.

It is sad the rightwing media propagandists have to look so hard for celebrity conservatives..

Theyre all liberals though.... But liberals hate wrong think so they tried to destroy them and fbey got publicity.

But I dont actually think you've ever listened to these people because of your own blend of propaganda telling you how evil these people are

a reply to: TinySickTears

Do you know that Christian teachings in the bible are for those who want to be subject to those teachings
If you don't want to be subject to them then you don't have to be
I choose my faith and I choose my lifestyle

If you don't like the system you are subject to, change it, vote otherwise

I support gay marriage for secular society

I don't mind if a chemist doesn't want to fulfill a pill prescription, there are other providers

As for insurance paying for them pills, why, why should they be subsidized, what reason?

You are only complaining when you don't get what you want, damn everyone else's opinion, you are as selfish as the religious you are condemning

You are forcing your values on others, just like those religious people you are moaning about

You are no better, no different, just the opposite side

a reply to: TinySickTears

I somehow think that you think that religion is based on magic . That is not what the Bible teaches and actually condemns the practice of such . There are other religions that actually don't have a "God" . What do you do with those religions ? Even in western society we don't see laws compelling people to be married by law . You me and anyone else can chose or not chose to engage in the act weather the law allows it or forbids it . Do you think people should not have a right to marry ?

a reply to: Raggedyman

if only they kept those teachings to those that wanted to hear about it then i wouldnt have a problem

it is what it is

i shouldnt have chimed in. i really dont want to circle jerk with you all day

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: Raggedyman
[
But Stalin was an atheist who killed millions, so was Mao. Neither believed what you believed, so based on their and your atheism, why do you think they did the wrong thing

See I can sy that I believe murder is wrong based on what Jesus taught, what do you base your beliefs on murder being wrong, why should other atheists agree with your opinion

more stalin
hahahahahahhaahh

I am sorry, does Stalin cause you a little bit of an issue?
I plan to use Stalin a whole lot more, see, Stalin didn't have a similar moral compass to a lot of atheists we see in the West nor Mao or Pol Pot

Lots more Stalin

a reply to: the2ofusr1

im out man
my views on this topic in general are all out in the open. lots of posts about it

as i said. i shouldnt have popped in. i have no interest in going round and round about this

a reply to: the2ofusr1

I know that my moms family lineage goes down to the Pictish people, and there was definitely wars, fighting for survival, and we also have a distant cousin that was considered a really dark spot on the family line (William Deacon Brodie - bad guy).

My dads line I don't know as much about, they moved around a lot

I think people are just people, very different from each other, and society needs proper cooperation to survive.

If humans almost all died off, and we all had to start over again, kill or be killed, what a mess we'd be left with......it'd likely take generations to figure out cooperating with each other again.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Does being religious keep you from breaking rules? Do religious people kill people? I know you like to bring up Stalin, Mao, and pol pot, Because they are atheists who had people killed, But plenty of religious people killed as well. So how do you explain that?

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: Raggedyman

if only they kept those teachings to those that wanted to hear about it then i wouldnt have a problem

it is what it is

i shouldnt have chimed in. i really dont want to circle jerk with you all day

If only atheists kept their respective teachings and beliefs to themselves
Sorry, circle jerking with you again

You are no better than the Christian fundamentalist, you are just the same, wanting your way and conceding others nothing

All you are saying is" we don't want to listen to you" and then saying" we demand you listen to us" circle jerking, great analogy

a reply to: Raggedyman

But Stalin was an atheist who killed millions, so was Mao. Neither believed what you believed, so based on their and your atheism, why do you think they did the wrong thing

I don't equate the killing they did with atheism, because there's enough people of various religious beliefs, that kill indiscriminately as well.
As well as people directly involved with the church, that have done things with children, that should never have happened.

I really don't know where morals come from, I guess, because there are too many Christians and people of other religious affiliations that don't seem to have morals or ethics.