Rising conservative star Jordan Peterson in debate: "Athiesm leads to murder"

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Raggedyman

Peterson is not a Christian, he catagoricalynstates he is an agnostic Why are you confused about what he states It beggars belief

I guess using their standards we will have to call anyone living in "Christendom" a Christian ...well just because

By there standards I think they already consider everyone in the West as Christians

a reply to: Raggedyman

Dude, you're making my argument for me. People act like people regardless of whether hell or heaven exists. Yes, prisons are full of Catholics, Muslims, Christians, Hindus...and atheists. So is the wider society where denominations don't matter and atheists go about their business causing no harm unto others same as the religious do.

You and Peterson apparently favour the misanthropic notion that people are naturally inclined to evil or criminal behaviour. In my experience of life, people are way better than that and have moral compasses that don't require threats from some god to fine tune them. If it helps you stay on the straight and narrow, cool. Not everyone needs it.

Don't forget I'm very familiar with your approach and accept nothing less than a complete refusal to understand these reasonable points. Don't disappoint me, but don't expect me to play the 'go fetch' game. You've got enough people playing that one

a reply to: Sookiechacha

they both are sookie.
heres biological proof for your position
www.sciencedirect.com...
leading to toysfor adults position which can be elucidated perhaps with my post on page 7

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Raggedyman

Dude, you're making my argument for me. People act like people regardless of whether hell or heaven exists. Yes, prisons are full of Catholics, Muslims, Christians, Hindus...and atheists. So is the wider society where denominations don't matter and atheists go about their business causing no harm unto others same as the religious do.

You and Peterson apparently favour the misanthropic notion that people are naturally inclined to evil or criminal behaviour. In my experience of life, people are way better than that and have moral compasses that don't require threats from some god to fine tune them. If it helps you stay on the straight and narrow, cool. Not everyone needs it.

Don't forget I'm very familiar with your approach and accept nothing less than a complete refusal to understand these reasonable points. Don't disappoint me, but don't expect me to play the 'go fetch' game. You've got enough people playing that one

So society has laws for no reason
Ludicrous argument

And again because you clearly missed my statement
Christians are no more in fear of punishment than an atheist

It's not about fetching anything, just admitting atheists have no moral code, it's all subjective or at least imposed by society
Not that you could admit that

Forget anything, like I care...

a reply to: Phage

ism's are the problem with society....

a reply to: Kandinsky

You and Peterson apparently favour the misanthropic notion that people are naturally inclined to evil or criminal behaviour. In my experience of life, people are way better than that and have moral compasses that don't require threats from some god to fine tune them.

Not sure if you are or were a parent but one thing I learned was that you have to instill good behavior in children to the point of offering as a alternative punishment if they don't listen and behave . The bad parts are all there with no encouragement or example to be that way .

a reply to: Raggedyman

so you need a moral foundation or a guidebook to teach you how to live?
thats a joke

what phage is saying is very easy to understand
i think you do understand it you just like to play little games

you keep talking about morals and where they come from... clearly for you and millions of others they come from the bible.
then why are so many people that follow those teachings giant piles of #?

answer me that

a reply to: MarlbBlack

isms are society

thats the dichotomy

originally posted by: tribal
athiests dont believe in god....right....

thats why they search for him with particle accelerators and want to be him using AI and advanced robotics.

athiest indeed.

the god particle is not god


i cant even take people who worship or believe serious anymore.
it just too much

got the pope dressing like a wizard carrying a big ass staff.
weak tea man

the best thing that could possibly happen to this world and the people in it would be to phase all this # out with the quickness.

a reply to: TinySickTears

then why are so many people that follow those teachings giant piles of #? answer me that

Because all humans are sinners . we all miss the mark or did you not notice .

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: TinySickTears

then why are so many people that follow those teachings giant piles of #? answer me that

Because all humans are sinners . we all miss the mark or did you not notice .

no because all humans are humans and some of them are going to do bad # no matter what
even if you follow that giant book of morals

all this religion, god, sin.... they are man made constructs and somewhere along the way, thousands and thousands of years ago people started getting duped by this stupid # and cut to 2018 and this is what we have.

we have laws and policies and societies built around these man made constructs that we pass off as from god

it is the stupidest thing ever

hopefully people wake up soon

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Yes, you're right about instilling good qualities into children. However, kids left to their own devices don't all turn into 'Lord of the Flies.' It's as if moral compasses are already built in and some just need theirs recalibrating from time to time. We all know good parents with the black sheep kid and the bad parents who manage to produce a good kid. Experience shapes us all and I still suspect people are born with some form of moral compass.

a reply to: Raggedyman

People are people are people and the majority have a moral code. I have no problem with your religious beliefs and if you believe God created everything, it's cool. There's no incentive to argue otherwise and I accept you have a moral compass. It's just absurd to profess how atheists have no moral compass.

I like a lot of your posts, but not the ones that include sandbagging an ambitious assertion for 30 pages.

a reply to: TinySickTears

we have laws and policies and societies built around these man made constructs that we pass off as from god it is the stupidest thing ever

But some how Atheist have a golden rule that could make laws and politics and societies that would not be a construct of man some how ? How would that work ? I mean it not being made by man and somehow come from man .

a reply to: Kandinsky

I still suspect people are born with some form of moral compass.

I think Peterson argues that point exactly . He basically says that if God didn't exist that man would have to create Him to explain this internal Moral compass inside all of us .

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: TinySickTears

we have laws and policies and societies built around these man made constructs that we pass off as from god it is the stupidest thing ever

But some how Atheist have a golden rule that could make laws and politics and societies that would not be a construct of man some how ? How would that work ? I mean it not being made by man and somehow come from man .

i never said that

it would be nice though of the laws, policies, and societies we live by/in were based on constructs put forth by actual humans and not some magic man.
that is my problem with it

i want religion out of it. all of it. all the way
i want it to have no bearing on laws or regulations

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: Raggedyman

so you need a moral foundation or a guidebook to teach you how to live?
thats a joke

what phage is saying is very easy to understand
i think you do understand it you just like to play little games

you keep talking about morals and where they come from... clearly for you and millions of others they come from the bible.
then why are so many people that follow those teachings giant piles of #?

answer me that

Well why do all societies have moral codes, laws and justice systems
Are you real, do you live in society, see policemen
Are you serious

This is the most stupid argument I have ever had with anyone on ats ever
The idea that society doesn't need laws

It's not just you tst, it's all the others as well

Why are they piles of ..., because they are, isn't that obvious
I am not denying it, I agree, that's my point

My question is where do yours come from

a reply to: the2ofusr1



Research suggests higher order animals also have a sense of ethics - moral compasses. We've all seen 'guilty dogs,' but the monkeys in the video are a good example too. I've read about apes trying to rescue non-ape animals which speaks to something intrinsic at play.

With humans being more reflective it's possible we've framed our 'monkey ethics' into something with more narrative value. Sure, we have the laws, but we also have good behaviours under threats/peril/stress too. These instinctive acts of fairness might have been allocated to God (or gods) whereas atheists also act the same, but without the need for a narrative arc.

originally posted by: Raggedyman


This is the most stupid argument I have ever had with anyone on ats ever
The idea that society doesn't need laws

except that is not what i said. not even close
not really my problem if you dont understand.

i will say it again though

it would be nice of our laws and constructs were not based on some magic that does not and has not ever existed. that would be a great start.

i want religion out of it.
i do not want laws and policies written or based on rules or guidelines from the bible.

that # needs to go

I realize that to some extent this is a semantic argument, however ...

To me, it is fairly worthless to speak of what atheists, as a category, believe or do with any level of granularity.

Atheists aren't a homogenous group. The approach to God and the lack thereof can differ in myriad ways.

I have the same categorical issue with poltical terms ... the careless use of over-generalization very rapidly degenerates into illogical nonsense.

a reply to: TinySickTears

it would be nice though of the laws, policies, and societies we live by/in were based on constructs put forth by actual humans

They were though . Ever religious book was written by a man or mankind . Not by a fictitious charterer floating around in the sky . Humans have been writing for thousands of years and no where in the writings do we find something written down by any other creature . I think a few monkeys have had at it and maybe even a elephant but the rest is humans writing down stuff . But you would prefer other humans write down stuff and not those humans . What would be the difference ? And why would it be different ?