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Rising conservative star Jordan Peterson in debate: "Athiesm leads to murder"

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posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 10:56 PM
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I was wrong.




posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 10:57 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman




you obviously believe that Catholic understanding is accurate and you project that on me
No. I don't believe it to be true. But I do think it makes a good threat to encourage the following of the teachings of the priesthood.

What do you think the punishment for sin is?




Peterson discussing atheistic morals and where they are derived from was the topic
You want to get back on to that
Ok. I don't think atheism leads to murder. Do you?


edit on 6/30/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 10:58 PM
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a reply to: c2oden




I was wrong.
So now you are not
Got to love correction eh



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:01 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman




All atheists accept the Christian golden rule?
I don't know. Do all Christians employ it?



So now you are telling me all atheists have a Christian moral foundation based on the Christian golden rule
No. I'm saying that the golden rule transcends any religion. It is a logical construct. Not divine.


No obviously all Christians or even those who claim Christianity don't follow the " Christian golden rule" we suck terribly at that
Inquisitions, crusades, salve revolts, we have gotten it wrong for 2 millennia and still do. I don't make excuses, don't pretend Christians are good even nice

Can you tell me why humans all humans accept the golden rule and the animal kingdom doesn't
Did Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot or Leopoldo II see the Christian golden rule as a logical construct

Come on Phage, be real



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:03 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Phage

why is a peaceful society good?

what is good?



Ummm...good is an expression of compassion inextro...(I know...I know)...

Specifically...an outward altruistic expression of wellbeing whose nature is both externalized and internalized in recipricocity...

Good is also an expressed intent to politic group dynamic as conflict mitigation through harmonious interaction...it is a prime defense/submissive mechanism that enables healthy group dynamics...

Good is grooming...





YouSir



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:04 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman




Can you tell me why humans all humans accept the golden rule and the animal kingdom doesn't
They follow the rules of their societies, or they are harshly dealt with. Human societies are not the same as wolf societies but the rules are applied.


Did Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot or Leopoldo II see the Christian golden rule as a logical construct
Nope. How did their societies work out?

edit on 6/30/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:07 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Phage

if my thought has no impact on society yet it's bad, what makes it bad?



Ummm...intent...





YouSir



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:07 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman




you obviously believe that Catholic understanding is accurate and you project that on me
No. I don't believe it to be true. But I do think it makes a good threat to encourage the following of the teachings of the priesthood.

What do you think the punishment for sin is?




Peterson discussing atheistic morals and where they are derived from was the topic
You want to get back on to that
Ok. I don't think atheism leads to murder. Do you?



We can discuss punishment for sin elsewhere

As for does atheism lead to murder?
No more than Christianity can, but

That wasn't the issue was it
Did you want to go back and read the op again Phage

What moral imperative stops an atheist from killin, it's that simple
That's the question, that is what the agnostic psychologist was getting at, there are no moral imperatives guiding atheists.

Granted if a society enforces those morals with punishment then yes they do have a society enforced imperative, not a moral enforced reason

Do we not understand the difference between society enforced and moral reasoning yet
edit on 30-6-2018 by Raggedyman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:08 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman



That's the question, that is what the agnostic psychologist was getting at, there are no moral imperatives guiding atheists.
He is mistaken. Speaking for myself.



edit on 6/30/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:12 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman



That's the question, that is what the agnostic psychologist was getting at, there are no moral imperatives guiding atheists.
He is mistaken.



I kinda get that you think he was mistaken
I don't think he is
Hence our 4 pages of discussion.

All I am asking is what moral imperative all atheists follow and why

Moral laws, not secular or society enforced laws, ok?
edit on 30-6-2018 by Raggedyman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:13 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

I dislike repeating myself.
Especially when it's proven to be fruitless.

edit on 6/30/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:14 PM
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This seems rather oversimplified. It doesn't sound like he said any atheist would become a murderer simply because they are an atheist.

What I got from the video was that Peterson said a *genuine* atheist would be able to rationalize a "perfect" murder on a terrible person because they had convinced themselves that there would be no metaphysical consequences and it would be for "the greater good."
edit on 30-6-2018 by Teikiatsu because: the greater good



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:15 PM
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I don't agree with Peterson's reasoning that atheism equals immorality, but from my experience atheists tend to be as fanatical as some of the world's worst religions. So it is not a big leap to say that atheism could lead to a systemic murderous mentality in a society. We've seen myriad examples of this from the 20th century alone. I, myself, began questioning organized religion's depiction of god in grade school. However, I would not label myself as an atheist, I'm agnostic. I'm without knowledge of what truly made us or the universe. As in actuality, no matter what we want to call ourselves or believe - christian, muslim, jewish or atheist, etc. - we are all truly without knowledge.



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:20 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

It's deflection, plain and simple. I actually have nearly *been* killed by a so called 'man of god'. He tried more than once, yet!

Thought it was funny as hell, too.



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:22 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman



That's the question, that is what the agnostic psychologist was getting at, there are no moral imperatives guiding atheists.
He is mistaken. Speaking for myself.





Ummm...yessir...he is definitely mistaken...

It’s not diety fear that compels morality...rather...it’s compassion...expediency...and mostly harmony...

Harmony...or balance...or being centered...
Realizing that our nature is neither wholly altruistic...nor is it wholly aggressive...that equanimity and wholeness is acceptance that one has the capacity to both be altruistic and creative...or aggressive and destructive...






YouSir



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:23 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman

I dislike repeating myself.
Especially when it's proven to be fruitless.


Funny, I have been repeating myself for five pages and you have been ducking and weaving in a cowardly fashion for those 5 pages

It's boring and fruitless

So let me reiterate
What is the atheistic moral standard, we are not talking a society forced moral standard
Where do atheists get it from

So far all you have told me is atheist moral standards are based on the " golden rule" what ever that is and no reason was given why the "golden rule" is an atheist moral standard
Reading some atheists think Christianity is " stoopid" I find your reasoning illogical

But you know what
Feel free to turn tail, blame me and run

I am sick of asking for a moral standard atheists believe in as well
There are plenty of others who have read this and won't answer as well

Let's be hounest, this argument has been done to death by greater minds than us and those arguing your position always, always loose

I just can't believe you were naive enough to even start

Cya round the tracks



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:26 PM
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originally posted by: sooth
I don't agree with Peterson's reasoning that atheism equals immorality,





That is absolutely not what Peterson said, why comment when you havnt watched the video or even understood it
This is just so stupid



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:27 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Do atheist believe that there is no higher order of intelligence that operates in the universe?



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:33 PM
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originally posted by: YouSir

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman



That's the question, that is what the agnostic psychologist was getting at, there are no moral imperatives guiding atheists.
He is mistaken. Speaking for myself.





Ummm...yessir...he is definitely mistaken...

It’s not diety fear that compels morality...rather...it’s compassion...expediency...and mostly harmony...

Harmony...or balance...or being centered...
Realizing that our nature is neither wholly altruistic...nor is it wholly aggressive...that equanimity and wholeness is acceptance that one has the capacity to both be altruistic and creative...or aggressive and destructive...






YouSir


Ok so Christians are taught that
Killing/ murder is wrong
Do Christians kill and murder, yes, Christians are not nice, are just as broken, deranged, subject to harming others than anyone else, maybe even more so
Irrespective, Christians have a moral standard imposed on them from the New Teatament
Foundational moral law not just an enforced society based justice

Do atheists have a moral non society based moral law/foundation
What is it

There is nothing in atheistic beliefs that states that killing or murdering others is wrong, is there?



posted on Jun, 30 2018 @ 11:37 PM
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Meh I get what he is saying, a christians fears hell for sins a atheist does not. What is the big deal about? How on earth do we spin that explanation for hours on ats is beyond my general purpose in understanding human behavior. Unless we are arguing over what this guy said.. lol I understood what he meant lol. Actually Jordan is one of the few people that make sense these days..



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