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Rising conservative star Jordan Peterson in debate: "Athiesm leads to murder"

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posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:31 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Quantity does not equal quality or correctness.




posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:37 AM
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a reply to: Phage




The fact remains, a claim of moral superiority based on a belief in Christ has no validity.
When you say "the fact" and you say "no" .... Give me this fact you have then Page ...and while your at it any amount of value that can be attributed to or associated with "Christ" will show a measurement . If you are measuring something or someone then they are measurable . So to ascribe that measurement as none valid is nonsensical


Rationalize all you wish.
Back at ya big guy .



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:47 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove




Quantity does not equal quality or correctness.
No doubt about it but his words are not hidden and are out in the public and there are teams with him in their sights . If he put out crap stuff we would know about it . If he made any errors we would know about it . So I am only assuming that because no one has exposed these things then he is cool . There is not a small amount of people looking at him . He is a internet superstar as far as coverage goes . But if you can find someone better then have at it . I just thought it would make for a great double wammy considering the OP and the subject matter .



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 03:56 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Few people with his credentials care about or bother with things such as internet stardom. Most are too busy plying their profession. Which leads to a question, if he's so good at his job, how and where does he find the time for all this internet stardom?

My guess is, as in the beginning of this thread, most people replying to and correcting him don't have those credentials because frankly most people that do have better things to do than seek internet stardom or go around correcting those who do.

Either way this is a discussion forum, not a bend over and accept the views and opinions of any individual who happens to have more degrees than you forum.

I've known to many idiots with crazy degrees and more people really smart than you'd expect with no degrees to buy into the degree equals authority BS.
edit on 7/3/2018 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 04:11 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: the2ofusr1




He has over 200 hours of You Tube vids alone

Talkative, is he?
So was Fidel Castro.



So where do you get your anti Peterson slant from. What do you disagree with that has earned Peterson your shadie look

Christians believe that Satan believes in Jesus
We are also taught there are many non Christians in the church, wheat and tares thing going on



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 04:15 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman




Take drug dealers for instance, some would seem to have little to no conscience?

Indeed. But of course, no drug dealers believe in God.
Because a drug dealer can't be a believer because a drug dealer does bad things so a drug dealer can't be a believer because a believer can't do bad things


I can only assume you have never read any of my posts and you are projecting your views on me
I have never said anything like that, in fact I try as often as I can to make it clear to everyone Christians are as mixed up if not more mixed up than anyone else

But if you need to feel superior, have at it😁



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 08:09 AM
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It appears that Peterson skipped his history classes. I recall reading how many wars have been conducted based on religious views. In the name of God, I smite you; etc.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 09:04 AM
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a reply to: tabularosa

and behind those religious views, the ism, that which cannot be questioned, is the power dynamic and the resources. empire has no beliefs in the face of expediency. the belief is the motivation for the dumbasses to go to war for the leaders, the most effective sociopaths attracted to the biggest pile of loot. ie the resources gathered by force in the name of the ism.
so it appears as a clinical psychologist peterson understands it much better than you.

and almost every one else in this thread.
edit on 3-7-2018 by username74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: username74

Good so you let Christians off the hook for the wars of their Christian leaders. That must mean atheists are likewise off the hook for things like communist Russia.

Which means no wars or mass deaths of that sort are caused by atheism or Christianity.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

dude, what about human deviance and psychology?
how is this never factored into your worldview/models?
these organisational belief systems are what we run off.
expectations.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove

why must i be letting anyone off any thing. least of all ill considered rebukes suchas the one you just made.

heres some background and context. see if you can find fault.


The funding of the political/religious process was always the essential aspect of the established systems, which provided the maximum leverage to accumulate more social power over time. Following the money leads us through the dark places where the murder system backs up the money system. The money system operates the heart of darkness, whereby the murder systems are paid for, to maintain the money systems in return. People were conditioned to be adverse to understanding and participating in the money and taxation systems because those actually depend on murder systems.

It is extremely difficult for most people to even begin to consider the ways that money is measurement backed by murder, and even more difficult for them to consider that it must necessarily be. Thousands of years of the history of successful warfare based upon backing up deceits with destruction has created conditions which are profoundly paradoxical. There must necessarily be some death control systems, however, the actually existing systems were developed to become the most socially successful through the triumphs of those who were the most successfully deceitful and treacherous. Those paradoxical kinds of social success reverberated down through generation after generation to result in social pyramid systems being almost totally dominated by the best available professional liars and immaculate hypocrites, and that included both the core of organized crime, as well as the layers of controlled opposition around that core. All of the established sociopolitical institutions have ended up being dominated by the best available professional hypocrites (sociopathy).

BY DEFINITION, the central issues in human ecology are the death control systems. However, since the actual systems developed to be best done by being deceitful, the generally established and accepted public attitudes towards the death controls have developed to become operated through the maximum possible deceits about themselves. Not only are the actual systems operating according to the principles of methods of organized crime, but also, the opposition to those systems has become almost completely controlled, so that the apparent, publicly significant, opposition also stays within the same, almost totally deceitful, frame of reference regarding the death control issues.

edit on 3-7-2018 by username74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 09:23 AM
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a reply to: username74

Various leaders claim Christian beliefs, and use those beliefs to excuse their action and encourage and manipulate their followers into actions based upon this shared belief system. The bible and Christian faith being used as a tool for war. You claim the Christian faith is not responsible for and holds no blame for the actions of these leaders or their followers based on the idea that the leaders are not true believers but are manipulating the word of God for their own nefarious purposes. Mostly accumulating and maintaining their power often killing anyone not of the approved faith to do so.

In communist Russia they similarly followed a supposed atheistic system of beliefs, and likewise used the lack of faith in God to demonize and commit atrocities upon people of faith in the name of their "rationality" doing pretty much the exact same thing the Christian leaders did. The only real purposes was to destroy a supposed threat to the leaders of Communist Russia in the form of the Church which has been used to control and sway the masses in the past.

So if Christianity is allowed to not be a factor in and responsible for the first group, the the same must be true of Atheism and the second group, as anything else would be hypocritical.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: username74

So you admit greed not religion or lack thereof is responsible for wars?

Or is greed only something Atheists are capable of?



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 09:36 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

so his arguement there is that being an atheist somehow absolves you from being a worst # of a human being ?

I knew it was wrong to hurt others before I even knew about god or religion

Sorry but this arguement is ass!

ideologies dont kill people , humans who cant think reasonably kill people



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove

did you read my comments?
the answers are there.
"So you admit greed not religion or lack thereof is responsible for wars?"
"Or is greed only something Atheists are capable of?"
both these questions miss the point.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: username74

I read what you said, but I'm not sure you truly understand it.

There seems to be some kind of weird belief in religious circles that Atheism and sociopathy or psychopathy are linked and that if a person is Atheist then there is no reason for them to not be one of those two things.

Sociopathy and psychopathy are products of a chemical imbalance, genetic predisposition, or extreme trauma not a trait inherent to atheism.

You mention sociopaths and yes we are by and large ruled by people who typically are or have sociopathic traits for the reasons you mention.

Much of the worlds problem exist because of the success, treachery, and willingness of sociopaths to do whatever they can to succeed.

These people will use anything to do so, be it religion or otherwise.

The issue here is that for some reason believers seem to be under the impression that religion and the spread of it has any effect on these people or their success. Which as history has shown, it does not. Instead these people rise in the ranks of the church and re-purpose it to their ends.

The world is destroyed and made terrible by the actions of a ridiculously small number of bad apples.

Most people be they Christian or otherwise are neither sociopaths or psychopaths. Most people be they Christian or otherwise are not willing to do anything and everything to succeed.

Atheist does not equal sociopath or psychopath. Which is the absurd claim being made.
edit on 7/3/2018 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: sapien82

the whole clip is basically someone triggered trying to pull out a reason to conduct an ad homenim attack on him because something he said upset them.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove

i am not linking sociopathy and atheism.
i am not religious.
i am stating that as human beings we function off belief, not facts, belief.
for instance your belief - "Sociopathy and psychopathy are products of a chemical imbalance, genetic predisposition, or extreme trauma not a trait inherent to atheism."
psychopathy-Psychopaths are known to be characterized by callousness, diminished capacity for remorse, and lack of empathy. However, the exact cause of these personality traits is an area of scientific debate.
its a physical issue
sociopathy-a learned issue
there are other deviances occuring across all populations.
"Atheist does not equal sociopath or psychopath. Which is the absurd claim being made"
nobody has made this claim (you and i anyhow)
it just exists as a hierarchical system, see my earlier posts
After any life form exists, then due to the inherent nature of that, there are chronic problems which emerge, and which are resolved by the death control conditions that direct the evolution of that life. In the case of the human species, those were internalized to become human intelligence, and then, human intelligence was applied to the most important selection pressures, which were from other human beings. Hence, the history of warfare, which was organized crime on larger and larger scales. Governments were basically military organizations, or operated as organized crime gangs. However, those were most successful by being as deceitful and treacherous as they could be, and those which were most successful overall were also able to control their apparent opposition. Thus, there is almost nothing but a core of organized crime surrounded by controlled opposition groups.

i think we are on the same street but the backdrop of our late neolithic civilisation (now) started long ago with militarism and patriarchy, etc., made something that is evolving beyond human comprehension and control. We have "money" made out of nothing, as endless frauds, perpetrated by using the powers of We the People against Us! That enables the established systems to simply ignore anything outside of their fraudulent frame-of-reference. All other facts end up interpreted through triumphant frauds in the central social systems, enabled through the endless misrepresentations of lying by omission.

Those trends of society controlled by professional liars and hypocrites were then astronomically amplified by technologies that have become a new kingdom of life, leaving human beings behind, since the actual systems are operated by numbers which are NUTS, since those numbers are the result of loop after loop of fraudulence, getting totally tangled up to the point where no group of human beings fully understand the systems that they made anymore. None of the old "isms" or ideological labels are useful anymore. Therefore, all of the theories of economics should be regarded with the same approach as archaeology, which can help understand how the current runaway insane systems were originally developed, but no longer are able to explain the absurdities that have finally resulted from automated fraudulence, backed by atomic bombs, etc. ...
edit on 3-7-2018 by username74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: username74

ahh well eh!

humans are quite happy to go around blaming everything and aww hings to put aside a difficult subject , and reason away the immoral , unethical ,instead of just accepting reality, its not the things we have invented , its us ourselves !
we are the sole reason , our "actions" have "consequences"
also to a certain degree our thoughts have consequences when expressed to others!

If someone got butt hurt over his statements, its because they themselves cannot accept another reality and refuse to accept it , yet if they simply were open to change they could accept it and move on!
instead they rally against it and in anger make judgements about others.

same with peterson , saying atheism is the reason we kill millions right!

So a man made concept or ideology is the reason we kill people en-mass, nothing to do with the individuals inability to take responsibility for their own actions or their thoughts!

Oh no it wasnt me your honor , its because god told me
oh no it wasnt me your honor , im a communist it was communism that brain washed me
Oh no it wasnt me your honor , it was allah who instructed me
Oh no it wasnt me your honor , it was the fairy folk in my garden
oh no it wasnt me your honor, I was ordered to do it and as a good citizen doing my patriotic duty I followed... ad infinitum




edit on 3-7-2018 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 10:37 AM
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a reply to: sapien82

"So a man made concept or ideology is the reason we kill people en-mass, nothing to do with the individuals inability to take responsibility for their own actions or their thoughts"

its way worse than that dude.
refusal to take responsibilty is the least of it and 80% of people will always act in thier own interest if they think they can get away with it.
It is extremely difficult for most people to even begin to consider the ways that money is measurement backed by murder, and even more difficult for them to consider that it must necessarily be.
Thousands of years of the history of successful warfare based upon backing up deceits with destruction has created conditions which are profoundly paradoxical.
we need death controls. we need better death controls. these were at least present before the 'new' system of the world started in the 1600s.
reread the posts. when i assimilated this structure of knowledge it was to say the least very enlightening.
if you want true religion its the second law of thermal dynamics, thats the only thing the universe believes.
entropy is the key.
peterson got caught on semantics




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