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Rising conservative star Jordan Peterson in debate: "Athiesm leads to murder"

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posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:01 AM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Raggedyman

Does being religious keep you from breaking rules? Do religious people kill people? I know you like to bring up Stalin, Mao, and pol pot, Because they are atheists who had people killed, But plenty of religious people killed as well.

So how do you explain that?


Religious people are not nice, that's a fact

how do I explain it, because religious people are morally corrupt, broken, selfish, greedy, horrible, whatever.
I have never denied that Christians are morally corrupt, have I?

All I am saying is that Christianity has a clearly defined moral foundation
I didn't say Christians adhered to it

You are over reaching Woodie

All I am saying is Christianity has a very clearly defined set of moral standards




posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: Raggedyman
[
But Stalin was an atheist who killed millions, so was Mao. Neither believed what you believed, so based on their and your atheism, why do you think they did the wrong thing

See I can sy that I believe murder is wrong based on what Jesus taught, what do you base your beliefs on murder being wrong, why should other atheists agree with your opinion


more stalin
hahahahahahhaahh





I am sorry, does Stalin cause you a little bit of an issue?
I plan to use Stalin a whole lot more, see, Stalin didn't have a similar moral compass to a lot of atheists we see in the West nor Mao or Pol Pot

Lots more Stalin


I'd be curious as a reader here what your expertise is regarding Stalin; would you share with us?



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Yes, but our points are actually based on treating people with dignity. If you’re Christian pharmacist wants to withhold a product from a customer based on his magical religious views, He could very well be hurting someone, and if all of the pharmacist In that town agree with him, Then the entire town is being oppressed by nonsensical rules made up by people who live 2000 years ago or more. It simply makes no sense. The pharmacist Only has that opinion based on the Bible.


The other side of that, is that we just want everyone to be treated fairly and have the same rights and opportunities. We do not want people forcing others to do things based on their religion, we also do not want things withheld from others based on your religion.

There is a huge difference between religious people forcing their rules on others, and secular people not wanting the religious people to force their rules on others.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: snowspirit




If humans almost all died off, and we all had to start over again, kill or be killed, what a mess we'd be left with......it'd likely take generations to figure out cooperating with each other again.
There have been both good and bad parts of Native history that produced a peace agreement . One that even the USA adopted parts and concepts to . Being good requires effort and commitment to base principals people can agree on. Where they disagree is where they agree to disagree and cause no harm .



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: snowspirit
a reply to: Raggedyman


But Stalin was an atheist who killed millions, so was Mao. Neither believed what you believed, so based on their and your atheism, why do you think they did the wrong thing


I don't equate the killing they did with atheism, because there's enough people of various religious beliefs, that kill indiscriminately as well.
As well as people directly involved with the church, that have done things with children, that should never have happened.

I really don't know where morals come from, I guess, because there are too many Christians and people of other religious affiliations that don't seem to have morals or ethics.


It's irrelevant what you think
What is relevant is that they were atheists and they killed and they had no moral compunction not to, I believe

If they had a moral standard, where did they get it from

I personally don't think atheism was their motivation, but their atheism didn't teach them killing millions was wrong either, or did it



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:08 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Raggedyman

Does being religious keep you from breaking rules? Do religious people kill people? I know you like to bring up Stalin, Mao, and pol pot, Because they are atheists who had people killed, But plenty of religious people killed as well.

So how do you explain that?


Religious people are not nice, that's a fact

how do I explain it, because religious people are morally corrupt, broken, selfish, greedy, horrible, whatever.
I have never denied that Christians are morally corrupt, have I?

All I am saying is that Christianity has a clearly defined moral foundation
I didn't say Christians adhered to it

You are over reaching Woodie

All I am saying is Christianity has a very clearly defined set of moral standards
And what is that Clearly defined foundation that Christians Use to guide their moral compass.

It’s my opinion that the Bible is not clearly defined whatsoever. Whatever rule you want to pick from the Bible, I can find a quote that contradicts it. Which is why there are over 30,000 denominations.

My point being, that Christians don’t necessarily get their moral compass from the Bible. They get it from society. They get it from watching the interactions of others, and evaluating which actions equate to good and bad.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:13 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman


Christians, good bad indifferent, succeed or fail, have a clear and defined moral foundation
Do atheists and if they do, what and where do they come from

The question is still out there


I don’t think there is a clear and defined moral foundation for Christians. I hear Christians debating all the time about different interpretations of certain Bible passages. Christians have disagreed on these interpretations for centuries.

If you are saying that Christians have a book and atheists don’t, then you would be correct. If you are saying that because people are atheists and because they don’t have a book, therefore they don’t have a moral foundation, you would not be correct.

I think it is hardwired in the brain to want to successfully cohabitate with others, and in order to do that, the natural instinct is to get along and follow some sort of agreement to not take from, harm, or kill others that one is trying to successfully cohabitate with. Are there people who disregard that hardwiring, or who had that hardwiring messed with by psychological/environmental factors? Certainly. It has nothing to do with having a book or not.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

Well if all the pharmacists were that stupid then somebody should set up a pharmacy and make squillions$$$. Free market buddy, get with the times, that or order of Amazon or eBay or whatever. It's 2018, where are you living

Where I live secular society says Cbd oil is illegal, I still get it
What's wrong with you
I don't want things withheld from me but secular society thinks otherwise
My choice, deal with it or winge
The pharmacist decides based on government policy, not religion




I want everyone to be treated fairly as well but I am not that naive, I know there are real issues and we have to work with them

I don't think there is any difference between secular society and forced beliefs and Christianity and forced beliefs, we disagree



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:16 AM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Raggedyman

Does being religious keep you from breaking rules? Do religious people kill people? I know you like to bring up Stalin, Mao, and pol pot, Because they are atheists who had people killed, But plenty of religious people killed as well.

So how do you explain that?


Religious people are not nice, that's a fact

how do I explain it, because religious people are morally corrupt, broken, selfish, greedy, horrible, whatever.
I have never denied that Christians are morally corrupt, have I?

All I am saying is that Christianity has a clearly defined moral foundation
I didn't say Christians adhered to it

You are over reaching Woodie

All I am saying is Christianity has a very clearly defined set of moral standards
And what is that Clearly defined foundation that Christians Use to guide their moral compass.

It’s my opinion that the Bible is not clearly defined whatsoever. Whatever rule you want to pick from the Bible, I can find a quote that contradicts it. Which is why there are over 30,000 denominations.

My point being, that Christians don’t necessarily get their moral compass from the Bible. They get it from society. They get it from watching the interactions of others, and evaluating which actions equate to good and bad.


Two rules
Love God, love each other
Argue away



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:20 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Raggedyman

Does being religious keep you from breaking rules? Do religious people kill people? I know you like to bring up Stalin, Mao, and pol pot, Because they are atheists who had people killed, But plenty of religious people killed as well.

So how do you explain that?


Religious people are not nice, that's a fact

how do I explain it, because religious people are morally corrupt, broken, selfish, greedy, horrible, whatever.
I have never denied that Christians are morally corrupt, have I?

All I am saying is that Christianity has a clearly defined moral foundation
I didn't say Christians adhered to it

You are over reaching Woodie

All I am saying is Christianity has a very clearly defined set of moral standards
And what is that Clearly defined foundation that Christians Use to guide their moral compass.

It’s my opinion that the Bible is not clearly defined whatsoever. Whatever rule you want to pick from the Bible, I can find a quote that contradicts it. Which is why there are over 30,000 denominations.

My point being, that Christians don’t necessarily get their moral compass from the Bible. They get it from society. They get it from watching the interactions of others, and evaluating which actions equate to good and bad.


Two rules
Love God, love each other
Argue away


That’s your interpretation. Other Christians would argue vehemently against that.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:23 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Raggedyman


Christians, good bad indifferent, succeed or fail, have a clear and defined moral foundation
Do atheists and if they do, what and where do they come from

The question is still out there


I don’t think there is a clear and defined moral foundation for Christians. I hear Christians debating all the time about different interpretations of certain Bible passages. Christians have disagreed on these interpretations for centuries.

If you are saying that Christians have a book and atheists don’t, then you would be correct. If you are saying that because people are atheists and because they don’t have a book, therefore they don’t have a moral foundation, you would not be correct.

I think it is hardwired in the brain to want to successfully cohabitate with others, and in order to do that, the natural instinct is to get along and follow some sort of agreement to not take from, harm, or kill others that one is trying to successfully cohabitate with. Are there people who disregard that hardwiring, or who had that hardwiring messed with by psychological/environmental factors? Certainly. It has nothing to do with having a book or not.


So what is the atheist moral foundation
What is it, don't just say I am incorrect, please explain

Saying it's hard wired, sounds like woo, like religion, like faith
It's not scientific, it's belief
But irrespective, do all atheists believe the same things, evidence

You havnt established hardwiring to say it can be disregarded
But the bible states the brain is hard wired by God.
But then it's just a belief of religion so your point is a religious view then



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv




That’s your interpretation. Other Christians would argue vehemently against that.
Most if not all the Christians I know would not . Maybe you are failing to make the distinction between a real Christian and a false Christian . Both exist and both do not agree as well as unlearned Christians .



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Raggedyman

Does being religious keep you from breaking rules? Do religious people kill people? I know you like to bring up Stalin, Mao, and pol pot, Because they are atheists who had people killed, But plenty of religious people killed as well.

So how do you explain that?


Religious people are not nice, that's a fact

how do I explain it, because religious people are morally corrupt, broken, selfish, greedy, horrible, whatever.
I have never denied that Christians are morally corrupt, have I?

All I am saying is that Christianity has a clearly defined moral foundation
I didn't say Christians adhered to it

You are over reaching Woodie

All I am saying is Christianity has a very clearly defined set of moral standards
And what is that Clearly defined foundation that Christians Use to guide their moral compass.

It’s my opinion that the Bible is not clearly defined whatsoever. Whatever rule you want to pick from the Bible, I can find a quote that contradicts it. Which is why there are over 30,000 denominations.

My point being, that Christians don’t necessarily get their moral compass from the Bible. They get it from society. They get it from watching the interactions of others, and evaluating which actions equate to good and bad.


Two rules
Love God, love each other
Argue away


That’s your interpretation. Other Christians would argue vehemently against that.


No
They would have to argue with the bible not me
John 13 34/35

It's what the bible teaches



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: snowspirit
a reply to: Raggedyman


But Stalin was an atheist who killed millions, so was Mao. Neither believed what you believed, so based on their and your atheism, why do you think they did the wrong thing


I don't equate the killing they did with atheism, because there's enough people of various religious beliefs, that kill indiscriminately as well.
As well as people directly involved with the church, that have done things with children, that should never have happened.

I really don't know where morals come from, I guess, because there are too many Christians and people of other religious affiliations that don't seem to have morals or ethics.


It's irrelevant what you think
What is relevant is that they were atheists and they killed and they had no moral compunction not to, I believe

If they had a moral standard, where did they get it from

I personally don't think atheism was their motivation, but their atheism didn't teach them killing millions was wrong either, or did it


I don’t think I’ve ever seen you admit that before. So if you don’t think their atheism lead them to kill millions, why would you bring it up? In every #ing thread.

The problem here is that you believe in the sky daddy. You think that your interpretation of what that sky daddy wants is the only correct interpretation. you think the rules in that book are serious and could’ve only come from an outside source. But it is quite plain to see that those rules in that book were a conglomeration of what worked in previous societies and cultures. Humans made up those rules in a trial and error kind of way. The problem with humans as they don’t like to listen to other humans. So they invented the sky daddy, who gave those rules a perceived authority that No human could match.

We have that history on hand to read and follow. We know that priesthoods existed long before the Old Testament. We know that there were plenty of other books, religions, cultures, that were similar, but failed because they were missing certain elements in their doctrines that were essential for keeping a society peaceful and working together. We can see the newer versions of these add doctrines that made society work a little better. And later they added more That makes society work even a little better. Humans made these rules, not based on what sky daddy wanted, but based on what they saw with their own eyes. What worked and what didn’t work. They saw what rules created a fair government ruling body, And they saw what rules created oppressive governments.

Today we have the United States government. Which took aspects of governments throughout time that worked, and omitted most of those rules that do not work in favor for the people. Why do you think that a government should be secular instead of based on religious rules?

edit on 1-7-2018 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:31 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Woodcarver

Well if all the pharmacists were that stupid then somebody should set up a pharmacy and make squillions$$$. Free market buddy, get with the times, that or order of Amazon or eBay or whatever. It's 2018, where are you living

Where I live secular society says Cbd oil is illegal, I still get it
What's wrong with you
I don't want things withheld from me but secular society thinks otherwise
My choice, deal with it or winge
The pharmacist decides based on government policy, not religion




I want everyone to be treated fairly as well but I am not that naive, I know there are real issues and we have to work with them

I don't think there is any difference between secular society and forced beliefs and Christianity and forced beliefs, we disagree
secular society is based on laws which are created by a process set forth in our Constitution.

A Christian society would be based on rules that Christians believe come from a magical book inspired by a magical God.

That seems like a huge difference to me.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

I guess he forgot about all the death that religions have brought to this world......



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:33 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Raggedyman

Does being religious keep you from breaking rules? Do religious people kill people? I know you like to bring up Stalin, Mao, and pol pot, Because they are atheists who had people killed, But plenty of religious people killed as well.

So how do you explain that?


Religious people are not nice, that's a fact

how do I explain it, because religious people are morally corrupt, broken, selfish, greedy, horrible, whatever.
I have never denied that Christians are morally corrupt, have I?

All I am saying is that Christianity has a clearly defined moral foundation
I didn't say Christians adhered to it

You are over reaching Woodie

All I am saying is Christianity has a very clearly defined set of moral standards
And what is that Clearly defined foundation that Christians Use to guide their moral compass.

It’s my opinion that the Bible is not clearly defined whatsoever. Whatever rule you want to pick from the Bible, I can find a quote that contradicts it. Which is why there are over 30,000 denominations.

My point being, that Christians don’t necessarily get their moral compass from the Bible. They get it from society. They get it from watching the interactions of others, and evaluating which actions equate to good and bad.


Two rules
Love God, love each other
Argue away


That’s your interpretation. Other Christians would argue vehemently against that.


No
They would have to argue with the bible not me
John 13 34/35

It's what the bible teaches


There are plenty of interpretations of the Bible. It does little good to argue with the book. When it’s people that force their interpretations on others.
edit on 1-7-2018 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: username74

keep your dichs to yourself I don't need em lol... anyone in the right mind does not need religion to guide their path in life..



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver




That seems like a huge difference to me.
The declaration of human rights gets its power from God and not man made govt. Weather religious or not we both should agree that keeping religion and state is a separate matter and should remain so.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 09:35 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Raggedyman


Christians, good bad indifferent, succeed or fail, have a clear and defined moral foundation
Do atheists and if they do, what and where do they come from

The question is still out there


I don’t think there is a clear and defined moral foundation for Christians. I hear Christians debating all the time about different interpretations of certain Bible passages. Christians have disagreed on these interpretations for centuries.

If you are saying that Christians have a book and atheists don’t, then you would be correct. If you are saying that because people are atheists and because they don’t have a book, therefore they don’t have a moral foundation, you would not be correct.

I think it is hardwired in the brain to want to successfully cohabitate with others, and in order to do that, the natural instinct is to get along and follow some sort of agreement to not take from, harm, or kill others that one is trying to successfully cohabitate with. Are there people who disregard that hardwiring, or who had that hardwiring messed with by psychological/environmental factors? Certainly. It has nothing to do with having a book or not.


So what is the atheist moral foundation
What is it, don't just say I am incorrect, please explain

Saying it's hard wired, sounds like woo, like religion, like faith
It's not scientific, it's belief
But irrespective, do all atheists believe the same things, evidence

You havnt established hardwiring to say it can be disregarded
But the bible states the brain is hard wired by God.
But then it's just a belief of religion so your point is a religious view then
There is no such thing as an atheist moral foundation. The word atheist has nothing to do with morality. You are thinking of humanitarianism.




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