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Democrat Congressional Bill to Dismantle ICE To Be Introduced in House

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posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:14 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: DBCowboy

I already did the work for you.

Laws require enforcement obviously it's legal. It's a totally ridiculous point of view.


Spoken like a true statist.

You really don't understand what strict constructionalist means do you?

Hint: the late great Justice Scalia was one.


Neither do you because a constitutionalists recognizes what powers were given to whom. You totally ignore the 10th amendment.


I ignore the 10th Amendment which you tried to wave your hands over as well and claim that gives Congress the power to call out the militia/National Guard? That's not even the right part of the Constitution and it's the President that has that power not the Congress.

LOL...

Let's look at the 10th Amendment, shall we?



The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


Now, show us how that allows the FEDERAL government to create a national police force!


No if your a constitutionalists and dont agree with the the 14th amendment you fall back to the tenth giving border patrol to the state.




posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

you HAVE to have agency to enforce law just saying your position is on another planet



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

AH HA! Now there is an actual answer.

So the States of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California can establish police forces with this jurisdiction! Good answer particularly under the logic of the Tenth.

... but not the Federal Government. ICE, FBI, etc. all have no direct justification in the Constitution.

This, by the way, is the argument of an actual conservative.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:18 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Gryphon66

you HAVE to have agency to enforce law just saying your position is on another planet


Whatever.

Go worship at the altar of the all-powerful Federal Government you seem to desire.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:19 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

you are totally wrong there is federal authority which requires federal law officers and courts to enforce it please come back to reality

I dare you to link something



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:19 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: dragonridr

AH HA! Now there is an actual answer.

So the States of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California can establish police forces with this jurisdiction! Good answer particularly under the logic of the Tenth.

... but not the Federal Government. ICE, FBI, etc. all have no direct justification in the Constitution.

This, by the way, is the argument of an actual conservative.


But that lead to the 14th

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:20 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Gryphon66

you are totally wrong there is federal authority which requires federal law officers and courts to enforce it please come back to reality

I dare you to link something


The Constitution of the United States of America

That should be all you need.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:22 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

Oh, and you were doing so well.

No, the Fourteenth Amendment does not give the Federal Government power to create a police force, in fact, the Fourteenth protects us against government overreach.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:28 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

You are not even reading what he quote

"Citizens of the united states"

Not "citizen of California"

Blegh and lol



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:28 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: dragonridr

Oh, and you were doing so well.

No, the Fourteenth Amendment does not give the Federal Government power to create a police force, in fact, the Fourteenth protects us against government overreach.


14th is what gives thr federal government control used by the supreme court to decide. See one state cant control immigration because they could end up violating a persons rights from another state. So thr supreme court argued that immagration is of national intrest and falls under defense of thr United States. In fact they authorized the use of the military for border patrol.

But they had a huge border problem so they were desperate. Us citizens were being killed by border crossers who would run back to Mexico to hide from the authorities.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:29 PM
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I've got to turn in, early day tomorrow.

Here's an answer (but only if you're not a strict constructionalist/originalist):



COTUS Article 1, Section 8

The Congress shall have power:

....

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


... and Congress passed and the President signed the

Homeland Security Act of 2002 Cite

Which effectively created ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) although that process took until 2003.

Voila.

Nite.

edit on 1-7-2018 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:31 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: dragonridr

Oh, and you were doing so well.

No, the Fourteenth Amendment does not give the Federal Government power to create a police force, in fact, the Fourteenth protects us against government overreach.


14th is what gives thr federal government control used by the supreme court to decide. See one state cant control immigration because they could end up violating a persons rights from another state. So thr supreme court argued that immagration is of national intrest and falls under defense of thr United States. In fact they authorized the use of the military for border patrol.

But they had a huge border problem so they were desperate. Us citizens were being killed by border crossers who would run back to Mexico to hide from the authorities.


My goodness that's a jumble.

See above.

G'nite.



posted on Jul, 1 2018 @ 11:35 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
I've got to turn in, early day tomorrow.

Here's an answer (but only if you're not a strict constructionalist/originalist):



COTUS Article 1, Section 8

The Congress shall have power:

....

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


... and Congress passed and the President signed the

Homeland Security Act of 2002 Cite

Which effectively created the ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement).

Voila.

Nite.







I was trying to teach you ICE was around since the 1800s they just got a name change from Immagration and naturalization service. And in 2002 control of this group was given to homeland security.



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 12:02 AM
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I should get a Powerball ticket, pronto.

Never thought I'd see the day when anyone on ATS supports anything from the Homeland Security Act with all the years spent ripping it o.0 That's some Twilight Zone ish if ever there was any.



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 01:22 AM
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This is from memory so ...

The first laws passed by Congress regarding naturalization were in the 1790s and were limited to "white persons of good character." After living in the US for at least two years, such a person went to a local court to be examined, and if approved, make an oath to support the Constitution.

The first legislation at the national level regarding immigration ws in the mid 1870s and it regarded Chinese immigrants on the west coast (Gold Rush, "Coolies" etc.)

The first Immigration Act was passed in the late 1880s. It assigned what enforcement there was to the Treasury Department (which is logical because they handled Customs at the ports.)

Immigration started to rapidly increase in the last half of the 19th century and took off in the first years of the 20th and various acts in the 1920s changed quotas of who could come into the country and from where. These laws changed again in the 1960s and then again in the 1990s. Immigration was controlled first by the Treasury Department as noted, then the Department of Labor and then by the Justice Department until 2003 when the transfer to DHS was made.

This might make a little more sense than the attempts above to provide us with a "history" of immigration agencies.

However, none of that addresses the issue I brought up mostly in fun.

We should always ask ourselves why our govenrment does the things it does. Where does the authority come from?

The answer to that is from We the People through the Constitution.

Some folks have no issues crying about an originalist interpretation of the Constitution not allowing ... oh most of Roosevelt's New Deal or certain cabinet positions/agencies like the Department of Education, etc., or of denying same-sex marriage or a woman's right to choose, etc. etc. etc.

However, if you apply the very same logic to the authoritarian darlings of the law-and-order crowd they lose their minds (as can be seen above.)

There is nothing in Article 1 Section 8 that directly justifies any of those alphabet agencies.

We should think soberly about that fact.



edit on 2-7-2018 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 03:56 AM
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originally posted by: Wardaddy454
a reply to: Chadwickus

Then I suggest you contact your government and demand they lower their immigration requirements and border enforcement to our level.


Stating facts shouldn’t be something for you to get triggered over.




edit on 2/7/18 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 04:45 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

No argument there.

Abolish them all. Fiscal conservatism FTW



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 07:53 AM
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originally posted by: Nyiah
I should get a Powerball ticket, pronto.

Never thought I'd see the day when anyone on ATS supports anything from the Homeland Security Act with all the years spent ripping it o.0 That's some Twilight Zone ish if ever there was any.


Careful.

If you don't win a jackpot, it might mean you have mis-interprted something.

🍟🍔



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 10:10 AM
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Democrat Congressional Bill to Dismantle ICE To Be Introduced in House

Dismantle the BATFE.

Remember folks 'democracy' is a two way street.



posted on Jul, 2 2018 @ 11:09 AM
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I will say this ... for the Democratic Party to make this action their "signature action" going into the summer and fall campaigns just seems stupid because it plays directly into Trump's argument that the Dems are soft on illegal immigration and want "open borders" etc. etc.

There is no leadership for centrist-moderate policies from either Democrats or the Republicans.




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