The Problem with the Left by a dirty leftist.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Political bias and division is elevating in this country to the point where it will eventually cause instability and violence. Labeling political beliefs is the root of the problem. It's only going to get worse as long as political leaders and representatives continue to lay blame on each other.

The political spin by both sides is nothing but sanctioned lying by our government leaders. If the American public can't speak the truth, nor criticize their own party for its failed policies, then we are just as much the problem. Nothing is achieved if representatives can't constructively negotiate in good faith on issues facing all Americans. Politicians will continue to be self-serving and bias if the American public doesn't make them accountable at the voting booth. Outside influences, and money in politics also corrupts our government and makes them ignore the voice of the people.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I did not expect this from you, so credit where credit is due. Good job.

See what happens when you overcome your addiction and finally have time for some honest reflection? Maybe there is a rational human being somewhere inside of you.

Certainly there are some issues with having an exciting personality on the left. It's a bit unfortunate that we as a country put that ahead of so many other things. And it's only gotten worse in the reality TV low-attention-span era. It really is all just due to chance that someone dynamic & yet also approachable is given the opportunity to rise. It's almost always money &/or entitlement that paves the path to public awareness of a candidate. I suppose in the day and age of social media and the internet, anyone can get their voice out there to be heard. But herein lies the problem also... there is so much noise that even the best people are likely to be seen as a 15 second clip... and then on to the next cat video.

We don't really have a left in the USA (by any measure). That has always felt like a problem to me. We have right wing Repubs and a center-right Democratic party. They are almost universally all corporatist war-hawks, deeply entrenched in the pay-to-play system (corporate power > people or government). Beyond that are just a few outliers. But the status quo (most certainly this president included) has fostered a bunch of scared people that have been fed buzzwords to incite fear and redefine what words mean (while the rest of the world mouths 'what the hell?').

This won't change and that is what will bring this country down. Not people that want a bathroom for some sub-group (I also agree this gets taken too far, but I'd rather have a little collateral damage due to overstep so that millions of people that haven't even been recognized as people in this country changes).

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I had to stop when you said in a democracy... Anyone who thinks we live in a democracy, or rather anyone who REFERS to us as living in a democracy is either too indoctrinated in lies or is trying to manipulate people to the point that they CAN'T possibly have a valid point.

Learn about our system of government and get back to me if you want to make a point.

Jaden

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Unwashed masses

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Kudos, I think you were dead on.

Hopefully we can get some hyperbole out of conversations so that we all can get somewhere.

We don't have to agree on everything as a society to make good changes.

At the end of the day most people want the same thing, we just see different ways to accomplish it. Just like in a professional environment it's important everyone is part of the conversation and we give different things a try to see what works. No one is always right.... No one.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It's true. Outrage is pretty much the only thing we bring to the table at this point. It's over-the-top and almost always disproportionate and it doesn't sell -- which is probably the biggest sin of them all.

The democratic party platform reads like a manifesto and is hard to reduce to a few choice (and repeatable) slogans. Party leaders are utterly without charisma. There is a tendency to shotgun vs. laser focus. Like the far right die-hards, our "leaders" LOVE playing underdog so much they can't articulate what a "win" even looks like. Neither are capable of nuance or reasoned compromise where it counts. They pander to the most extreme portion of their base so much that they become indistinguishable from it.

Their worst sin is an overreliance on faded leaders from generations past. If any of those people were capable of true leadership they'd have exhibited some decades ago.

As a registered independent (former democrat though I was never a straight ticket dem. I voted for Bush in his first term, for example because Gore and his wife represent everything terrible about the democrats AFAIAC) I am beholden to neither party and frankly find much to disagree with on both sides of the aisle, but the dems are going to have to do better if they want to earn my vote later this year, or in 2020.

a reply to: Lab4Us

I get that this is your big issue, but it's simply rhetoric from extremists on both sides.

The US is in no position to "take" everyone's guns. There simply isn't enough manpower or logistical support for a mandatory grab.

Basically, it's all sales and marketing. There were more guns sold under the last dem administration than ever, for better AND worse.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

In the media, they have no problem calling an activist a “right-wing activist” or “far-right activist” if they don’t conform to mainstream views, but they never call the progressive activists “left-wing” or “far-left activist”.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I find that if you are on the side of individual freedoms, free expression and equal rights for everyone, then you can never go wrong.

It's a shame that there isn't an ideology for that.

You summed up my views succinctly.

I don’t know what we are called, but I sure don’t like people messing with each other. Can’t we all just leave each other alone to live life in a way that makes us happy? Can’t we all just keep our hands out of our neighbors pockets? Why is it so hard?

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
One of the ideals behind liberalism is progressivism, times have changed, you can’t go back and be outraged over something written 150 years or so ago. We see this all the time, some leftist group who think it’s a good idea to censor stuff because its offensive.

This may help some understand the push back at those who want to remove statues that have existed for decades, and never seemed to bother anyone until a big deal was made about them. Manufactured outrage.

And yes, there are idiots on both sides. Good post.

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I had to stop when you said in a democracy... Anyone who thinks we live in a democracy, or rather anyone who REFERS to us as living in a democracy is either too indoctrinated in lies or is trying to manipulate people to the point that they CAN'T possibly have a valid point.

Learn about our system of government and get back to me if you want to make a point.

Jaden

....am British.

moving on

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Never mind the Russians – in Britain too, wealth and power are increasingly in the hands of a small elite

2012's Newsflash: Oligarchy in the UK

God shave the Queen!

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Way too fair, balanced and honest of a post.

I can't argue with any of it.......dmn you!

There is no centrist policy or candidate who can garner both sides of the political fence to come to their central ideas.

We will have to see how this plays out.

From the outside looking in, it appears the Democratic Party is going to have its own Tea Party Moment, splitting between true Liberals, the Far Left progressives, what remains of the old guard DNC and the 5 or so Blue Dog Democrats that are still left.


Hopefully, people turn down the rhetoric about each other of else it's going to get ugly.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

In the media, they have no problem calling an activist a “right-wing activist” or “far-right activist” if they don’t conform to mainstream views, but they never call the progressive activists “left-wing” or “far-left activist”.

The point though is that both sides are just as bad.

Am sure that if you look hard enough you could fine the mainstream talk about "far-left" and am sure you could find the right talk about "far-right" however for the most part both sides seem to like to stick to chucking muck at each other. At times like I said in the OP some of the "name calling" is deserved and I mean that on both sides but for the most part its just silly name calling thats not really serving any kind of purpose.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

In the media, they have no problem calling an activist a “right-wing activist” or “far-right activist” if they don’t conform to mainstream views, but they never call the progressive activists “left-wing” or “far-left activist”.

The point though is that both sides are just as bad.

Am sure that if you look hard enough you could fine the mainstream talk about "far-left" and am sure you could find the right talk about "far-right" however for the most part both sides seem to like to stick to chucking muck at each other. At times like I said in the OP some of the "name calling" is deserved and I mean that on both sides but for the most part its just silly name calling thats not really serving any kind of purpose.

Name-calling is the basest form of propaganda. It does serve a purpose, mainly to avoid engaging in discourse in favour of solidifying tribal allegiances.

Let the makings of a real third party begin.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

In the media, they have no problem calling an activist a “right-wing activist” or “far-right activist” if they don’t conform to mainstream views, but they never call the progressive activists “left-wing” or “far-left activist”.

The point though is that both sides are just as bad.

Am sure that if you look hard enough you could fine the mainstream talk about "far-left" and am sure you could find the right talk about "far-right" however for the most part both sides seem to like to stick to chucking muck at each other. At times like I said in the OP some of the "name calling" is deserved and I mean that on both sides but for the most part its just silly name calling thats not really serving any kind of purpose.

Name-calling is the basest form of propaganda. It does serve a purpose, mainly to avoid engaging in discourse in favour of solidifying tribal allegiances.

You better be careful or me and you might actually agree on something....

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

In the media, they have no problem calling an activist a “right-wing activist” or “far-right activist” if they don’t conform to mainstream views, but they never call the progressive activists “left-wing” or “far-left activist”.

The point though is that both sides are just as bad.

Am sure that if you look hard enough you could fine the mainstream talk about "far-left" and am sure you could find the right talk about "far-right" however for the most part both sides seem to like to stick to chucking muck at each other. At times like I said in the OP some of the "name calling" is deserved and I mean that on both sides but for the most part its just silly name calling thats not really serving any kind of purpose.

Name-calling is the basest form of propaganda. It does serve a purpose, mainly to avoid engaging in discourse in favour of solidifying tribal allegiances.

You better be careful or me and you might actually agree on something....

I find that describing someone with descriptive terms rather than names is not only more accurate, better use of the language, but also more insulting. Let’s start using adjectives to describe others.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You know, I just realized something rather interesting if I'm correct, which......I may not be, but..........

There's a really big difference in terms of history between the left in the UK and the left in the US. That difference is rather simple..........the UK left won years ago. Socialized or Nationalized Medicine, gun confiscation, open borders, intrusive social services, cameras on every corner, the lot......you won. Well, then the Brexit thing happened and you sorta lost there, but not really because from what I read, its just being dragged out forever until it'll be forgotten and will probably never really happen.

The US? The "Left" in the US has made inroads, but they haven't really "won" big. Even in California, people can still buy firearms.

And therein lies the true sticking point for so many in the US who are NOT Leftists. To them, it really does appear that all the Left is about is "taking", taking away rights, taking away firearms, taking property, taking taxes, taking mobility, taking electricity, taking water.............its all TAKING. And worse? There's never enough taking; they always want more!

But here's the real kicker............they take for stuff that never, ever works! They took taxes and properties to do the "War on Poverty", built huge Apartment blocks that became crime ridden cesspools of despair. They want to take guns and where they have, Chicago, murder is rampaging rampant! They screwed up the transportation system in NYC to take away mobility and ended up with a completely broken transit system. They took fat taxes, property taxes, to build out HUGE Educational facilities that turn out illiterates! They took fat property taxes in Florida to build a pedestrian overpass and it collapsed the first day! And I haven't even touched on California........I don't have the energy. They took a broken health care system and ............broke it, doubling everyone's insurance premiums and many found that NO they couldn't keep their doctors.

And now..........in London?? They're taking the knives? I dunno. Why not?
In American Cities, almost universally controlled by Leftists........they took the parking and put in "rail" to nowhere that no one can ride because its a hangout for muggers, thieves, wino's and bums.

But have heart........I'm sure after Trump, they'll be back on top, "taking" whatever they can get away with.