Why are American people so hung up on women having abortions ?

a reply to: TiggersTheMan


Again you ignore the life that is inside the womb

a reply to: Gryphon66


Miscarriage as manslaughter? Come on even you know that is a invalid statement. Miscarriage is the baby dying naturally and not by the hand of another.

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: Gryphon66


weak argument

Says you.

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: Gryphon66


Miscarriage as manslaughter? Come on even you know that is a invalid statement. Miscarriage is the baby dying naturally and not by the hand of another.

You need to so some research; you are incorrect.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
It is and should be a personal matter. Those who believe that abortion is murder don't have to have abortions.

Those who believe that sometimes difficult choices have to be made in the real world should have the right to make those choices.

I've suddenly realized that there really are only two kinds of people: those who are glad to live and let live, and those who live to control others.

Two of the biggest hot button issues (as shoved under our fingernails by the extremist media) are abortion and same sex marriage.

Both have a very simple answer, if it is against your religion don't do it.

That's where all rights begin and end ... in our own bodies and with our own life.

I totally agree with what you said. People should just stay out of others peoples private life and their "legal" according to American law, sex life.

a reply to: norhoc

And no the man can't opt out, the courts tell him he has a financial responsibility to support the child and will take his freedom from him if he does not and put him in jail.

Men can legally donate their sperm and not be liable for child support. As long as there is a legal contract, a man can opt out of parenthood. However, he can be held responsible should the mother go on public assistance and claim him as the father, contract or no. Sperm banks protect men even further from paternity suits.

So, if you want to give your sperm to a couple of lesbian friends, do it though a sperm bank!

If you donate sperm without a contract, shame on you!

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: burdman30ott6

And "opt out" like that isn't really an option out, is it?

Why not? A donation is a donation. That is, unless your donation starts costing tax payers.

As for the rest of your post, "buyer beware". Men are also responsible for choosing the right partner. If you can't convince your woman why having a family with you is great, then you picked the wrong woman.

OK, thought on "welp, you chose the wrong partner." With regards to women who mate with deadbeat males? Again, why the legal protection in the form of court ordered child support for those women but a "too bad, so sad" for males who want their child? That's not equal treatment under the law.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Now we're arguing WHEN it is acceptable to destroy the life of an individual human being.

a reply to: musicismagic

Thanks. I believe you see now why this is the grand debate it is in this country.

Now I will reestablish my normal position and avoid abortion bickering like the plague.

a reply to: Gryphon66

For the second time this week we find ourselves in a discussion where some uniformity in the law would go a long ways towards resolving our debate.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Gryphon66

Now we're arguing WHEN it is acceptable to destroy the life of an individual human being.

Are we?

When does the fertilized egg become a human being? Which day?

a reply to: Sookiechacha


Again... If the woman can kill the child against the partners wishes or without his consent, then on the flipside of that should the man if he does not want the kid be allowed to not have to pay child support? that can be his form of abortion.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Gryphon66

For the second time this week we find ourselves in a discussion where some uniformity in the law would go a long ways towards resolving our debate.

Absolutely.

Of course, you know as well as I do that since our laws are made by lawyers, the legal codes will never make logical sense nor be understandable by the many.

Thus, King Henry VI's solution ...

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Gryphon66

Now we're arguing WHEN it is acceptable to destroy the life of an individual human being.

Are we?

When does the fertilized egg become a human being? Which day?

I don't know.

It would be presumptive to assume anyone does.

originally posted by: TiggersTheMan
It's bad enough there are laws telling me what I can't put in my body, I don't need any more laws dictating what I can and can't do with my body. It's my body, my life, and I'll do whatever I want with it, just as I always have.

Which "laws" prevent a person from "putting anything in their bodies" ?
Truly interested.

It seems to me - a big-time player back in 70's btw - that people act nowadays like the pregnancy was due some virus or something picked up at the grocery store randomly. It's something that happened to them without active participation and therefore consequences unforeseen and measures of extremis are employed to nullify the course of the affliction like a disease.

Bull freaking crap!

If you are to lazy, dumb, ignorant or as I've heard many times "caught up in the moment" doe's that justify killing a human life - how dare you do that for you moments of pleasure and abject ignorance of consequences.

Back in seventies I myself as an underage young person had no qualms about asking for and getting what was needed to prevent pregnancy when there was still stigma attached to the mere asking at a pharmacy - now every single Walmart, Dollar General and Convenience store has supplies on public display - WTH is the excuse!

You kill humans for your utter convenience and use abortion as a means of birth control - its sick!

I am not saying any of this from a religious belief but from an inherent belief in light/dark, right/wrong and definitely a humanistic angle.

Only exception I would entertain are incest, rape and mothers life and yes judicial intervention should be required.

Abortion is NOT birth control, its outright murder.

a reply to: Gryphon66


I agree with you on one thing Gryphon, I usually don't like to get into these discussions either but got sucked in on this one, I think we can all agree we could debate all night and not change each others minds and on that note I am out of here on this thread. Hope to talk with you all on other topics. Cheers.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Gryphon66

Now we're arguing WHEN it is acceptable to destroy the life of an individual human being.

Are we?

When does the fertilized egg become a human being? Which day?

I don't know.

It would be presumptive to assume anyone does.

Then it is not a matter of deciding when it's okay to murder a human, since you don't know when humanhood occurs, right?

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: Sookiechacha


see the post above from burdman. why if someone kills a pregnant woman and her unborn child or just does something to her that causes the unborn child to die do they get charged with infanticide?

Because a bunch of right wing, pro-life, Christians got so upset that Lacy Peterson was murdered by her husband, when she was so close to giving birth, they wanted greater justice! So, George W Bush, pushed through the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

They said it reinforced a woman's choice, that it's her choice to be pregnant and no one can force her to abort or kill her fetus...so, they called it "murder". The pro-choice crowd called it as it is, a foot in the door to chip away at women's reproductive rights, by pointing to hypocrisy, just like you tools do in every abortion thread!

a reply to: Phoenix

Are you also against war and the death penalty?

Nevermind. You do you and let others do them. We'll all be much happier.