Why are American people so hung up on women having abortions ?

originally posted by: poncho1982
As a man who cannot father a child, I think it's abhorrent to kill an unborn child. I'd give anything to be a father, and yet women just go and kill them if they wish. Imagine if I got a once in a lifetime shot at it, and then the woman just decides....nope! Too bad! Where's MY rights in that? My feelings don't matter?

I'm sure if you were in a relationship and got "a once in a lifetime shot" your

partner and you would come you a mutual decission together, and have a baby.

However its not like that for all women.... when some women find themselves

pregnant the "sire" is long gone. I have my suspicions that many of the men who

make the loudest noises against abortion are among these very men!?!

Plus it takes away any personal responsibility. Sex is a gamble in many ways, pregnancy is but one of them. Use protection, do what you have to to prevent the conception of a child. It shouldn't be an afterthought.

Sex is a gamble?

And until recently women have been loosing since the beginning of time.

originally posted by: Annee
I support ALL LIVING CHILDREN.

I support EVERY LIVING CHILD on this planet is cared for, loved, sheltered, fed, educated, etc, etc, etc.

One asylum seeking mom says she fled with her 14 year old daughter - - when a local gang knocked on her door demanding her daughter as a Sex Slave.

LIVING CHILDREN

Where are all those anti-abortion supporters - - when it comes to how the kids are being treated at the border? Crickets Chirping.

'Pro-Life,’ Pro-Family Groups Are MIA On Family Separations At The Border

WASHINGTON ― Conservative groups that promote themselves as “pro-life” and “pro-family” are quietly supporting the Trump administration policy of separating immigrant children from their parents at the border, or refusing to weigh in at all. www.huffingtonpost.com...

Living. As in alive? A baby's heart starts being able to be heard at 5 weeks. As the baby grows, it can recognize the mothers voice quite clearly.

Beating heart = LIVING

www.livestrong.com...

Oh, and you may have missed, Trump signed an Executive Order to keep the families together, something that Obama didn't do for his entire 8 years in office.

Fred..

a reply to: Annee

Where are all those anti-abortion supporters - - when it comes to how the kids are being treated at the border? Crickets Chirping.

They are sure not where you are.

Most understand that of the 12,300 or so that illegally swarmed over our borders, 10,000 of those were unaccompanied minors. That means that their parents in Central America or Mx either sold them or didn't concern themselves with the dangers and let them trek through Mexico with "handlers/coyotes".

Many of these unaccompanied minors have no ID. In previous administrations, any ole person claiming to be "Uncle Jose" or "Cousin Miguel" took possession of them and off they went never to be seen nor heard of again.

Some of these so-called separated families are not really blood kin. Hmmmmm......

Why don't you develop a little common sense and compassion for the minors that may be getting trafficked into the sex trade, child porn biz, or gang recruitment.

I know it feels good to jump up and down and scream about Trump, but g-d**n! Sometimes those that have common sense and do the research have to plug up their ears and carry on with real solutions to real problems that have multiple levels.

a reply to: Annee
Logical fallacy. I don't condone the murder of any child anywhere. I also can't fix the whole world's problems.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No you're making another strawman argument - I never claimed you cani't be human in a uterus, why make it up?

Sorry, you did, I quoted you. You said the difference was the human was not inside the uterus. I'm glad you agree your argument is invalid.

No you didn't you completely misquoted me - what I said was 'Someone in a coma isn't inside a woman's uterus treating both as the same doesn't work.' - no mention of whether it can be called human or not, you just invented all that.

In case you didn't follow the obvious point, a foetus in in the mother's uterus gestating for 9 months (give or take), it's direct affect on the mother, it's not a valid like vs like comparison - if it was considered a person then mothers ( or fathers if there's a fault in their genes) would have to be charged with involuntary manslaughter if unfortunate enough to miscarry.

originally posted by: fredrodgers1960

Beating heart = LIVING

Not always......

Beating heart can also belong to a brain dead body with a machine

breathing for them.

A fetus heart is beating before the development of limbs, features or

lungs a prem babys heart may be strong but it dosent live due to its

under developed lungs.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: AboveBoard

There is no belief, it's scientific fact.

Is the fetus alive?
What species is it?
Is it a separate unique organism?

Interesting. Ignore everything but your own specific technical questions.

Rinse and repeat.

But sure, I’ll play.


1. Is the fetus alive? It is not separately alive, no, not until the third trimester. Other questions you might want to answer to determine this: Can it survive physically outside the womb? If it is “alive” only because it is fully supported physically by the womb of an adult human, is it really alive? If the mother died, would the embryo or early fetus still survive? Or is it wholly dependent on the organs of another being to survive, namely the mother?
Is it sentient?
Is it able to understand that it is alive?

2. What species is it? Really? 🙄. Genetically, it is 50% mom and 50% dad and 100% human. This does not make it a viable life form, it just means it won’t turn into a chicken.

3. Is it a separate, unique organism? Not until it reaches the stage of viability. If it automatically dies with the mother, if it cannot be removed from her dead womb and survive, then it is not yet a separate living being. Now, any infant needs physical care and cannot survive without it, but the distinction is that someone else other than the mother can support the baby, and that it’s organs function by themselves.


I’m not pro-abortion. I’m anti-forcing a woman to carry an embryo to viability should she be unable to care for it. Your lack of understanding doesn’t equate to the right to use pregnancy as a prison sentence, as punishment, as a binding chain, when it is against the will of the human who must alter themselves and their lives permanently to accommodate your interpretation of when “life” begins.

I am for reducing abortion, to minimizing it happening by reducing the need for it, not by forcing people to have babies.

I wish for zero abortions, but I’m not naive. The body often self-aborts. Are those women whose bodies abort an embryo or fetus guilty of involuntary manslaughter? How do you account for that? What about stillbirths? Assuming the mother didn’t do anything to cause that?

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: fredrodgers1960

Beating heart = LIVING

Not always......

Beating heart can also belong to a brain dead body with a machine

breathing for them.

A fetus heart is beating before the development of limbs, features or

lungs a prem babys heart may be strong but it dosent live due to its

under developed lungs.

Yet, still alive. My daughter was born premie. 1 pound 2 OZ. WAY too early.

She is 32 today and living in Alaska.

I'm sorry, but you can't just wish away life. Life starts at conception. All of the things that make a person unique, all start there.

Fred..

a reply to: AboveBoard

False. It's a living organism. At fertilization it's a living separate organism, not belief, scientific fact.

It's 100% human as you say. Glad you agree. As far as viable people in comas aren't viable they can't live on their own. Ok to kill them?

False, it's a unique living organism, not belief, scientific fact. It is genetically unique from every other human, it's dependant, but a separate organism.

These are not debatable, they are facts. I don't ignore anything, I am perfectly willing to answer any question so shoot away.

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: AboveBoard

There is no belief, it's scientific fact.

Is the fetus alive?
What species is it?
Is it a separate unique organism?

Interesting. Ignore everything but your own specific technical questions.

Rinse and repeat.

But sure, I’ll play.


1. Is the fetus alive? It is not separately alive, no, not until the third trimester. Other questions you might want to answer to determine this: Can it survive physically outside the womb? If it is “alive” only because it is fully supported physically by the womb of an adult human, is it really alive? If the mother died, would the embryo or early fetus still survive? Or is it wholly dependent on the organs of another being to survive, namely the mother?
Is it sentient?
Is it able to understand that it is alive?

2. What species is it? Really? 🙄. Genetically, it is 50% mom and 50% dad and 100% human. This does not make it a viable life form, it just means it won’t turn into a chicken.

3. Is it a separate, unique organism? Not until it reaches the stage of viability. If it automatically dies with the mother, if it cannot be removed from her dead womb and survive, then it is not yet a separate living being. Now, any infant needs physical care and cannot survive without it, but the distinction is that someone else other than the mother can support the baby, and that it’s organs function by themselves.


I’m not pro-abortion. I’m anti-forcing a woman to carry an embryo to viability should she be unable to care for it. Your lack of understanding doesn’t equate to the right to use pregnancy as a prison sentence, as punishment, as a binding chain, when it is against the will of the human who must alter themselves and their lives permanently to accommodate your interpretation of when “life” begins.

I am for reducing abortion, to minimizing it happening by reducing the need for it, not by forcing people to have babies.

I wish for zero abortions, but I’m not naive. The body often self-aborts. Are those women whose bodies abort an embryo or fetus guilty of involuntary manslaughter? How do you account for that? What about stillbirths? Assuming the mother didn’t do anything to cause that?

"The body often self-aborts. Are those women whose bodies abort an embryo or fetus guilty of involuntary manslaughter? How do you account for that? What about stillbirths? Assuming the mother didn’t do anything to cause that? "

One simple question.

1. Did the mother purposely terminate the pregnancy for the sole purpose of not carrying the child to term?

If the answer to that simple question is yes, then there's the issue.

My wife had 7 miscarriages before we finally had our daughter. Each of those was as tragic as the next.

Fred..

originally posted by: AboveBoard
Are those women whose bodies abort an embryo or fetus guilty of involuntary manslaughter?

No that's a silly question. A life did die, but there is no blame in that instance.

Do you tell them not to grieve because nothing died? Or do you say sorry for your loss?

Why would anyone grieve a few stupid cells when we lose them everyday, they wouldn't, they grieve the death of the unborn and everyone knows what happened. They just want to pretend otherwise when it's convenient.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Annee
Logical fallacy. I don't condone the murder of any child anywhere. I also can't fix the whole world's problems.

Hungry, sick, uncared for, neglected LIVING BABIES - - - do NOT need more unwanted ones.

YES! You can do something. You can focus your energies on those that are LIVING in real life - - outside their mother's womb.

That's REAL Reality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

originally posted by: fredrodgers1960

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: fredrodgers1960

Beating heart = LIVING

Not always......

Beating heart can also belong to a brain dead body with a machine

breathing for them.

A fetus heart is beating before the development of limbs, features or

lungs a prem babys heart may be strong but it dosent live due to its

under developed lungs.

Yet, still alive. My daughter was born premie. 1 pound 2 OZ. WAY too early.

She is 32 today and living in Alaska.

I'm sorry, but you can't just wish away life. Life starts at conception. All of the things that make a person unique, all start there.

Fred..

My first pregnancy was a spontaneous abortion.

My next 2 resulted in living daughters - - now 46 & 49.

My fourth pregnancy was an elective abortion.

Neither the spontaneous abortion or the elective one affect me in anyway.

Or take away from my LIVING DAUGHTERS.

My grandson came in at exactly 3 pounds. He is also doing good today.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Annee

Where are all those anti-abortion supporters - - when it comes to how the kids are being treated at the border? Crickets Chirping.

They are sure not where you are.

Most understand that of the 12,300 or so that illegally swarmed over our borders, 10,000 of those were unaccompanied minors. That means that their parents in Central America or Mx either sold them or didn't concern themselves with the dangers and let them trek through Mexico with "handlers/coyotes".
.

Typical Right Wing rhetoric

"Not My Porch"

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: AboveBoard
Are those women whose bodies abort an embryo or fetus guilty of involuntary manslaughter?

No that's a silly question. A life did die, but there is no blame in that instance.

Do you tell them not to grieve because nothing died? Or do you say sorry for your loss?

Why would anyone grieve a few stupid cells when we lose them everyday, they wouldn't, they grieve the death of the unborn and everyone knows what happened. They just want to pretend otherwise when it's convenient.

It depends on the person, who grieves and who doesn’t.

My Mom, for example, had several miscarriages and while she was sad she did not carry them to term, she did not see the lump of tissues that came out of her as a “life.” She actually flushed it down the toilet, which I found a little shocking myself. She explained it looked like a large clot of blood. Another one was a bit more developed but it met the same fate. She just didn’t see it as a human child, but as a non-viable mistake her body had purged.

Other women I’ve known had already attached strongly to the embryo and the idea of bringing a baby into the world from that pregnancy so they had a funeral for the 12 week embryo/fetus.

The reaction was based on their emotional interpretation of the events that unfolded. The grief is often for the loss of the dream of becoming a parent. The miscarriage often happens because the developing embryo/fetus had something go terribly wrong with it, or the process of attachment didn’t work right, etc.

It is sad when a woman who wants a baby loses it at any time. It is also sad when a woman who doesn’t want a baby is forced to carry it to term.

a reply to: Annee

I got'cha...I understand. Common sense is not your forte, much less "your porch". Kids getting trafficked or handlers with their own agenda is not your concern. Keep screaming about the right to abort....we all hear 'ya, loud and clear.

originally posted by: AboveBoard

But sure, I’ll play.

1. Is the fetus alive? It is not separately alive, no, not until the third trimester. Other questions you might want to answer to determine this: Can it survive physically outside the womb? If it is “alive” only because it is fully supported physically by the womb of an adult human, is it really alive? If the mother died, would the embryo or early fetus still survive? Or is it wholly dependent on the organs of another being to survive, namely the mother?
Is it sentient?
Is it able to understand that it is alive?

2. What species is it? Really? 🙄. Genetically, it is 50% mom and 50% dad and 100% human. This does not make it a viable life form, it just means it won’t turn into a chicken.

3. Is it a separate, unique organism? Not until it reaches the stage of viability. If it automatically dies with the mother, if it cannot be removed from her dead womb and survive, then it is not yet a separate living being. Now, any infant needs physical care and cannot survive without it, but the distinction is that someone else other than the mother can support the baby, and that it’s organs function by themselves.

I’m not pro-abortion. I’m anti-forcing a woman to carry an embryo to viability should she be unable to care for it. Your lack of understanding doesn’t equate to the right to use pregnancy as a prison sentence, as punishment, as a binding chain, when it is against the will of the human who must alter themselves and their lives permanently to accommodate your interpretation of when “life” begins.

I am for reducing abortion, to minimizing it happening by reducing the need for it, not by forcing people to have babies.
I wish for zero abortions, but I’m not naive. The body often self-aborts. Are those women whose bodies abort an embryo or fetus guilty of involuntary manslaughter? How do you account for that? What about stillbirths? Assuming the mother didn’t do anything to cause that?

Very well spelt out.

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: AboveBoard
Are those women whose bodies abort an embryo or fetus guilty of involuntary manslaughter?

No that's a silly question. A life did die, but there is no blame in that instance.

Do you tell them not to grieve because nothing died? Or do you say sorry for your loss?

Why would anyone grieve a few stupid cells when we lose them everyday, they wouldn't, they grieve the death of the unborn and everyone knows what happened. They just want to pretend otherwise when it's convenient.

It depends on the person, who grieves and who doesn’t.

My Mom, for example, had several miscarriages and while she was sad she did not carry them to term, she did not see the lump of tissues that came out of her as a “life.” She actually flushed it down the toilet, which I found a little shocking myself. She explained it looked like a large clot of blood. Another one was a bit more developed but it met the same fate. She just didn’t see it as a human child, but as a non-viable mistake her body had purged.

Other women I’ve known had already attached strongly to the embryo and the idea of bringing a baby into the world from that pregnancy so they had a funeral for the 12 week embryo/fetus.

The reaction was based on their emotional interpretation of the events that unfolded. The grief is often for the loss of the dream of becoming a parent. The miscarriage often happens because the developing embryo/fetus had something go terribly wrong with it, or the process of attachment didn’t work right, etc.

It is sad when a woman who wants a baby loses it at any time. It is also sad when a woman who doesn’t want a baby is forced to carry it to term.

Yes. My first pregnancy was a spontaneous abortion and I fished it out of the toilet. It looked like a pink kidney bean.

I was 21, married, and intentionally pregnant.

Did I or do I feel any attachment to that aborted fetus? NO. None what-so-ever.

I was sad because I wanted a child. But, that was not a child and never would be.

a reply to: Annee

" or the elective one affect me in anyway. "

And, there is the difference.

I would constantly wonder who it was that I DECIDED to kill.

Fred..

originally posted by: fredrodgers1960
a reply to: Annee

" or the elective one affect me in anyway. "

And, there is the difference.

I would constantly wonder who it was that I DECIDED to kill.

Fred..

You can believe whatever you want.

Just stay away from me and my personal rights.

And NO - in no way do I think about my choice to abort a clump of cells as a person.

I had both a spontaneous abortion and an elective one. I see no difference.