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originally posted by: poncho1982
As a man who cannot father a child, I think it's abhorrent to kill an unborn child. I'd give anything to be a father, and yet women just go and kill them if they wish. Imagine if I got a once in a lifetime shot at it, and then the woman just decides....nope! Too bad! Where's MY rights in that? My feelings don't matter?
Plus it takes away any personal responsibility. Sex is a gamble in many ways, pregnancy is but one of them. Use protection, do what you have to to prevent the conception of a child. It shouldn't be an afterthought.
originally posted by: Annee
I support ALL LIVING CHILDREN.
I support EVERY LIVING CHILD on this planet is cared for, loved, sheltered, fed, educated, etc, etc, etc.
One asylum seeking mom says she fled with her 14 year old daughter - - when a local gang knocked on her door demanding her daughter as a Sex Slave.
LIVING CHILDREN
Where are all those anti-abortion supporters - - when it comes to how the kids are being treated at the border? Crickets Chirping.
'Pro-Life,’ Pro-Family Groups Are MIA On Family Separations At The Border
WASHINGTON ― Conservative groups that promote themselves as “pro-life” and “pro-family” are quietly supporting the Trump administration policy of separating immigrant children from their parents at the border, or refusing to weigh in at all. www.huffingtonpost.com...
Where are all those anti-abortion supporters - - when it comes to how the kids are being treated at the border? Crickets Chirping.
originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: OccamsRazor04
No you're making another strawman argument - I never claimed you cani't be human in a uterus, why make it up?
Sorry, you did, I quoted you. You said the difference was the human was not inside the uterus. I'm glad you agree your argument is invalid.
originally posted by: fredrodgers1960
Beating heart = LIVING
originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: AboveBoard
There is no belief, it's scientific fact.
Is the fetus alive?
What species is it?
Is it a separate unique organism?
originally posted by: eletheia
originally posted by: fredrodgers1960
Beating heart = LIVING
Not always......
Beating heart can also belong to a brain dead body with a machine
breathing for them.
A fetus heart is beating before the development of limbs, features or
lungs a prem babys heart may be strong but it dosent live due to its
under developed lungs.
originally posted by: AboveBoard
originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: AboveBoard
There is no belief, it's scientific fact.
Is the fetus alive?
What species is it?
Is it a separate unique organism?
Interesting. Ignore everything but your own specific technical questions.
Rinse and repeat.
But sure, I’ll play.
1. Is the fetus alive? It is not separately alive, no, not until the third trimester. Other questions you might want to answer to determine this: Can it survive physically outside the womb? If it is “alive” only because it is fully supported physically by the womb of an adult human, is it really alive? If the mother died, would the embryo or early fetus still survive? Or is it wholly dependent on the organs of another being to survive, namely the mother?
Is it sentient?
Is it able to understand that it is alive?
2. What species is it? Really? 🙄. Genetically, it is 50% mom and 50% dad and 100% human. This does not make it a viable life form, it just means it won’t turn into a chicken.
3. Is it a separate, unique organism? Not until it reaches the stage of viability. If it automatically dies with the mother, if it cannot be removed from her dead womb and survive, then it is not yet a separate living being. Now, any infant needs physical care and cannot survive without it, but the distinction is that someone else other than the mother can support the baby, and that it’s organs function by themselves.
I’m not pro-abortion. I’m anti-forcing a woman to carry an embryo to viability should she be unable to care for it. Your lack of understanding doesn’t equate to the right to use pregnancy as a prison sentence, as punishment, as a binding chain, when it is against the will of the human who must alter themselves and their lives permanently to accommodate your interpretation of when “life” begins.
I am for reducing abortion, to minimizing it happening by reducing the need for it, not by forcing people to have babies.
I wish for zero abortions, but I’m not naive. The body often self-aborts. Are those women whose bodies abort an embryo or fetus guilty of involuntary manslaughter? How do you account for that? What about stillbirths? Assuming the mother didn’t do anything to cause that?
originally posted by: AboveBoard
Are those women whose bodies abort an embryo or fetus guilty of involuntary manslaughter?
originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Annee
Logical fallacy. I don't condone the murder of any child anywhere. I also can't fix the whole world's problems.
originally posted by: fredrodgers1960
originally posted by: eletheia
originally posted by: fredrodgers1960
Beating heart = LIVING
Not always......
Beating heart can also belong to a brain dead body with a machine
breathing for them.
A fetus heart is beating before the development of limbs, features or
lungs a prem babys heart may be strong but it dosent live due to its
under developed lungs.
Yet, still alive. My daughter was born premie. 1 pound 2 OZ. WAY too early.
She is 32 today and living in Alaska.
I'm sorry, but you can't just wish away life. Life starts at conception. All of the things that make a person unique, all start there.
Fred..
originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Annee
Where are all those anti-abortion supporters - - when it comes to how the kids are being treated at the border? Crickets Chirping.
They are sure not where you are.
Most understand that of the 12,300 or so that illegally swarmed over our borders, 10,000 of those were unaccompanied minors. That means that their parents in Central America or Mx either sold them or didn't concern themselves with the dangers and let them trek through Mexico with "handlers/coyotes".
.
originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
originally posted by: AboveBoard
Are those women whose bodies abort an embryo or fetus guilty of involuntary manslaughter?
No that's a silly question. A life did die, but there is no blame in that instance.
Do you tell them not to grieve because nothing died? Or do you say sorry for your loss?
Why would anyone grieve a few stupid cells when we lose them everyday, they wouldn't, they grieve the death of the unborn and everyone knows what happened. They just want to pretend otherwise when it's convenient.
originally posted by: AboveBoard
But sure, I’ll play.
1. Is the fetus alive? It is not separately alive, no, not until the third trimester. Other questions you might want to answer to determine this: Can it survive physically outside the womb? If it is “alive” only because it is fully supported physically by the womb of an adult human, is it really alive? If the mother died, would the embryo or early fetus still survive? Or is it wholly dependent on the organs of another being to survive, namely the mother?
Is it sentient?
Is it able to understand that it is alive?
2. What species is it? Really? 🙄. Genetically, it is 50% mom and 50% dad and 100% human. This does not make it a viable life form, it just means it won’t turn into a chicken.
3. Is it a separate, unique organism? Not until it reaches the stage of viability. If it automatically dies with the mother, if it cannot be removed from her dead womb and survive, then it is not yet a separate living being. Now, any infant needs physical care and cannot survive without it, but the distinction is that someone else other than the mother can support the baby, and that it’s organs function by themselves.
I’m not pro-abortion. I’m anti-forcing a woman to carry an embryo to viability should she be unable to care for it. Your lack of understanding doesn’t equate to the right to use pregnancy as a prison sentence, as punishment, as a binding chain, when it is against the will of the human who must alter themselves and their lives permanently to accommodate your interpretation of when “life” begins.
I am for reducing abortion, to minimizing it happening by reducing the need for it, not by forcing people to have babies.
I wish for zero abortions, but I’m not naive. The body often self-aborts. Are those women whose bodies abort an embryo or fetus guilty of involuntary manslaughter? How do you account for that? What about stillbirths? Assuming the mother didn’t do anything to cause that?
originally posted by: AboveBoard
originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
originally posted by: AboveBoard
Are those women whose bodies abort an embryo or fetus guilty of involuntary manslaughter?
No that's a silly question. A life did die, but there is no blame in that instance.
Do you tell them not to grieve because nothing died? Or do you say sorry for your loss?
Why would anyone grieve a few stupid cells when we lose them everyday, they wouldn't, they grieve the death of the unborn and everyone knows what happened. They just want to pretend otherwise when it's convenient.
It depends on the person, who grieves and who doesn’t.
My Mom, for example, had several miscarriages and while she was sad she did not carry them to term, she did not see the lump of tissues that came out of her as a “life.” She actually flushed it down the toilet, which I found a little shocking myself. She explained it looked like a large clot of blood. Another one was a bit more developed but it met the same fate. She just didn’t see it as a human child, but as a non-viable mistake her body had purged.
Other women I’ve known had already attached strongly to the embryo and the idea of bringing a baby into the world from that pregnancy so they had a funeral for the 12 week embryo/fetus.
The reaction was based on their emotional interpretation of the events that unfolded. The grief is often for the loss of the dream of becoming a parent. The miscarriage often happens because the developing embryo/fetus had something go terribly wrong with it, or the process of attachment didn’t work right, etc.
It is sad when a woman who wants a baby loses it at any time. It is also sad when a woman who doesn’t want a baby is forced to carry it to term.
originally posted by: fredrodgers1960
a reply to: Annee
" or the elective one affect me in anyway. "
And, there is the difference.
I would constantly wonder who it was that I DECIDED to kill.
Fred..