Ezekiel;- Gog of the land of Magog

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: redletter
I suggest meeting on the ground that faith in Christ is the truest faith.

I could have, if I so wanted, answered you directly about Gog. But I did not. I reached for common ground.

I am no one more than you. In fact, you seem to be much more prolific and able, and smarter than me.

Nevertheless, I have been given understanding that I see you have, but you have not fully grasped.

Help me to understand why? I cannot understand.


Don't say 1914 generation, or 1975, because we know that is not why. Those were mistakes everyone makes.

You are a special person. And I admire you a great deal. You don't know how much I do. For the very fact you acknowledge God exists, and his word exists.

Yet you are missing something. What is it you are lacking? What do you need to become complete?j

a reply to: redletter
You are now off-topic and wasting your time, so I must stamp on this at once.
I have had Catholics obsessively pushing the equivalent message, using exactly the same template.
The common factor is that both parties are displacing Christ from the centre of their faith, and replacing him with "our organisation". Please re-read Galatians ch6 vv14-16, and absorb what it says.
If you can find any thread I've started on the question of "which denomination is the best", you may continue the discussion there.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: redletter
You are now off-topic and wasting your time, so I must stamp on this at once.
I have had Catholics obsessively pushing the equivalent message, using exactly the same template.
The common factor is that both parties are displacing Christ from the centre of their faith, and replacing him with "our organisation". Please re-read Galatians ch6 vv14-16, and absorb what it says.
If you can find any thread I've started on the question of "which denomination is the best", you may continue the discussion there.

We are a part of the new creation. And also, due to that fact, be a part of the answer to the attack of Gog. If you do not know that then you are certainly NOT a part of the new creation, and most certainly are not not one to boast.

originally posted by: ElGoobero
most scholars believe Russia is Gog; I have heard one or two that think Gog is Turkey.

Specialists in ancient history think they can identify several of the names in that list among the tribes living at the time in Anatolia and points eastward.
One convenient reference point may be the Times Atlas of the Bible, the map on pp92-93, which purports to identify Gomer, Togarmah, Meshech and Tubal.
So Ezekiel's Gog, at least, is more Turkey than anywhere else.

But it's worth comparing the chapter in Revelation which has invaders coming from the other side of the Euphrates, which was in John's time the frontier of the Roman empire.

I think the common factor may be that both images are showing invasion from "outside the boundaries of civilisation", however those boundaries happen to be defined at the time of writing.

So perhaps we ought to ignore the literal geographical references and focus on that one point of "barbarians, from outside the civilised world."

a reply to: Deetermined
Yes, many of the Old Testament prophets describe the Last Battle from different angles (and using different names), and Armageddon is the New Testament equivalent of that feature of prophecy.
The Last Battle in Old Testament prophecy

originally posted by: redletter

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
Gog Of Magog is a collation of nations opposed to true christian worship and will attack it after the Great Tribulation begins.
And will most likely be lead by what the bible calls the King Of The North, which is likely Russia. They are already attacking anything other than the state sponsored religion, even now, which sets the stage for future brutality.

So GG, WP, Greek Orthodox church, but you still lose.

You mean Russian Orthodox I'm pretty sure. Every thing else is spot on.

You are right, but the comment was made within this context.

The name Greek Orthodox Church, or Greek Orthodoxy, is a term referring to the body of several Churches within the larger communion of Eastern Orthodox Christianity

Does this group, not have a certain hate on for a certain other group ?

a reply to: DISRAELI

All of these battles are starting to run together for me, so I think I need to start over with my studies on this topic.

According to the link below, there are 9 end time wars that take place, and this particular author appears to believe that the battle of Psalm 83 needs to happen before the battle outlined in Ezekiel 38 & 39.

If you're already familiar with this, I would be interested in reading your thoughts.

www.prophecydepotministries.net...

a reply to: Deetermined
My own belief, which I expressed in the linked thread, is that they're all the same war under different names.
Less a war between human nations than a war between God and his human enemies.
But that involves digging deeper for the fundamental message and by-passing literal details.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Less a war between human nations than a war between God and his human enemies.

So, you believe this is one big spiritual war versus physical wars? You believe most of the death of all of the people mentioned in the Bible is going to come from supernatural events?

originally posted by: redletter

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: redletter
The question has come up before, so I did a thread;
How an atheist became a Christian

That was the most decent, and naked thread I've read in a long time from someone like you. Did you know, when I asked you about this, I figured you had a thread already made, and already knew how to answer it.

This touched me a lot:

"For example, could a break in a rain-storm be an answer to prayer?"


I can tell you for a certainty that God's mood with us follows us with the weather.

Even when Jesus died the weather changed.

I can tell you with all assurity, and full faith, and without doubt, Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth faith.

That last sentence....people trapped by them need to drop their bias for them and do honest research on their founders. They are a cult started by Masons. They are their own thing but a Satanic thing.

JW's they were sacrificed by Satan as just one of many deceptions. God sacrificed his Son so as above so below, and Satan aspires to be like God in every way. JW as a world religion is but a child compared to the myriad of others, child sacrifices are Pagan, so up Hitler's smoke stacks they went and continue to be sacrificed in parts of the world. Nobody wants to be Satanic sacrifices so they need to be tricked and coerced.

a reply to: Deetermined
I will quote what I said in the old "Last battle" thread, which I've already linked;

This would not be a battle between human armies, but a battle between the power of man and the power of God.
For this purpose, there is no physical need to gather armies together in one place.
Nor would there be a need for physical fighting; the words of Zechariah were “as on a day of battle”.
The corpses in the vision are there as a graphic metaphor to express the completeness of the victory.
The “victory” is obtained by the presence of God in power. This ought to be enough in itself to disable all human strength, so that literal fighting would be neither necessary nor possible.

Thus the “last battle” theme, as revised by the New Testament, is really just another way of describing the return of Christ in the power of God.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Here's how Zechariah 14:3 reads from my Bible:

Zechariah 14:3

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as WHEN he fought in the day of battle.

ETA: God led human armies against each other in the past.

a reply to: Deetermined
The question is whether the last battle of all needs to take that form, or whether a metaphorical battle would be enough.
If all human power is to be disabled by the arrival of Christ in the power of God, why would a physical battle be necessary?

a reply to: DISRAELI

The corpses in the vision are there as a graphic metaphor to express the completeness of the victory.

This comment doesn't make sense in light of the fact that the Bible says that it will take 7 months to bury the dead and 7 years to burn all of the ammunition for fuel. How do you reconcile that?

a reply to: DISRAELI

If all human power is to be disabled by the arrival of Christ in the power of God, why would a physical battle be necessary?

Where does it say that all human power is disabled? It only says that God is victorious in winning the battle in the end, regardless of who/how he chooses to accomplish it.

Edit to Add: By the way, there is still going to be free will during the Millennial period, it's just that God will be ruling over it with an iron rod and limiting it.

a reply to: Deetermined
It does say Christ will come in the power of God.
If God is present in full power, how could human power to resist not be disabled?

a reply to: Deetermined
In support of my general approach, let me quote something you said yourself on this thread;

According to the link below, there are 9 end time wars that take place...

Now frankly, doesn't that tell you that this modern quest to construct an elaborate future history out of these prophetic details has become nothing more than a source of confusion?
It's the wrong track altogether. Old Testament prophecy doesn't have that purpose. I've already delivered an entire ATS series trying to demonstrate what the prophets were really doing.

The word of the Lord concerning the nations

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Deetermined
In support of my general approach, let me quote something you said yourself on this thread;

According to the link below, there are 9 end time wars that take place...

Now frankly, doesn't that tell you that this modern quest to construct an elaborate future history out of these prophetic details has become nothing more than a source of confusion?
It's the wrong track altogether. Old Testament prophecy doesn't have that purpose. I've already delivered an entire ATS series trying to demonstrate what the prophets were really doing.

The word of the Lord concerning the nations

This is why I don't take Ezekiel's prophecy on the "last battle" too literally, because out of it often comes confusion. I keep it simple, everything prophesied in the old testament is revealed in Revelation, which is why its called Revelation. If Ezekiel's God and Magog war is the same God and Magog conclusive event in Revelation, then Ezekiel obviously wasn't really describing particular nations, but literally ALL of them being gathered together against Israel. "The number of whom is as the sand of the sea" should make this obvious. If old testament prophecy becomes hard to decipher, then Revelation spells it all out for us.

a reply to: Dcopymope
Yes, that's approximately what I'm doing.
And it occurs to me that "general attack by the nations" might be translated into "general persecution of the church."

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Deetermined
It does say Christ will come in the power of God.
If God is present in full power, how could human power to resist not be disabled?

While Christ will come with great power, it certainly won't be with the FULL power of God, as Jesus has to put all of God's enemies under his feet first, including Satan, but that doesn't happen until after His Millennial reign here on earth. That's why there is the final battle after the thousand years of peace.