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Is the European beer and c02 shortage caused by a food shortage?

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posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 07:20 AM
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a reply to: ATruGod

A commercial brewery can't realistically add sugar to every bottle/keg and then wait for the tiny amount of yeast to wake back up and slowly produce CO2.

Let me rephrase my original statement. Not enough CO2 is produced through normal fermentation to carbonate a beer.




posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 07:36 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Artificial carbonation of beer did not start until 1936.

Prior to that, beer was carbonated in bottles or casks, by their natural fermentation.

If you do this professionally you'd know that. If not, study the history of beer (a craft going back over 3,000 years).



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 07:52 AM
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fizzy lager and cider like Heineken, Bud. Strongbow, Rattler etc has CO2 added at the bottling plant.
Normal, microbrew stuff is all natural so it's not a beer shortage so much as a cheap, rubbish, fizzy alcohol shortage.

This happens because the chemical companies that produce the CO2 are down. (Well, 3 out of 5 plants) due to maintenance.



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 08:03 AM
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a reply to: eriktheawful

I stand by what I said, not enough CO2 is produced during fermentation to carb a beer. You can go back after the beer is done fermenting and wake the yeast back up while the beer is in a small enclosed container and you can carb a beer that way.

However in the modern brewing world where quality control and replicability are key, such an uncontrolled process is unfeasible. Not to mention time consuming.

So yes, the CO2 produced by yeast can carb a beer. But it is a process that doesn't really solve the issues with a "CO2 shortage." Because now you're almost doubling the time it takes to go from mashing in to serving. What once took a couple hours to do would now take days. That cause it's own shortage.



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

I'd be surprised if the microbreweries are using natural carbonation. I've got a 6 BBL system and all of my brite tanks were made in the UK in the 60s or 70s. Even then each one of them has a port for a carb stone.

I don't know much about the UK craft beer scene though. So for all I know there may be a focus on cask beers.



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 08:20 AM
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originally posted by: Dem0nc1eaner
a reply to: toysforadults

I would like to personally apologise for the beer shortage in the UK, I'm working on cutting down but it's a long process.


LOL



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 08:21 AM
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originally posted by: 727Sky
a reply to: toysforadults

Yes there is just about 40 million tons of grain shortage world wide due to either floods, Hail, or a late planting season.

All of which has been forecast if we are entering into another global cold spell. youtu.be...
The articles he quotes are always linked below his videos.




I had a hard time sourcing the grain shortage and to what extent



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 08:28 AM
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a reply to: eriktheawful

do you know anything about the c02 process?

I've read 2 things about it 1 source of food grade c02 is fermentation and another is oil??

not sure it was very hard to find information about it for some reason



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 08:38 AM
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I do door and bar work for a good friend of mine.
It is a freehouse and as such free of tie and so he can source his beer from anywhere.

Against my advice another friend of mine's daughter recently took over a pub and is tied to Punch Taverns. She has been told that certain products are unavailable. When she said she was going to go elsewhere for her John Smiths Smooth she was told she couldn't and if she did they would first of all fine her and if she did it again they would deem her in breech of contract and kick her out of the pub and withhold her 'deposit' and other monies paid up front.

I had a similar situation once when I ran one of my old pubs; I told Punch in no uncertain terms to beat it and that I had a responsibility to supply my customers and if they attempted to fine me then I would sue them for restriction of trade....I heard nothing else from them about the matter.
I hope my friends daughter can be equally assertive.

Some of the major chains and PubCo owned pubs near us are struggling with supplies of Strongbow and John Smiths Smooth, we have enough, for now, but I think if things continue for much longer we too may struggle.

What I don't understand is if it is common practice to close down these plants for essential maintenance work at this time of year why hasn't this problem arisen before?
Something amiss methinks!


edit on 29/6/18 by Freeborn because: grammar



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 08:57 AM
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Well my cousin owns a pub and my brother in law is the steward of a club and I can tell you this is all hype. There is no shortage unless it's manufacture by the suppliers to bump up the price. It is used only for barrels to keep the pressure up for serving. All bottled beers are OK.



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254


Sure there are microwbrew carbonated beers and ciders, there are also plenty of cask ones too, they should be unaffected, just like proper, still cider and perry.



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn




What I don't understand is if it is common practice to close down these plants for essential maintenance work at this time of year why hasn't this problem arisen before? Something amiss methinks!


you really think it's a c02 issue or did they run out of grain for production and that's what they are referencing with the food-to-fork supply chain?



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 09:23 AM
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a reply to: toysforadults

As I understand it, I could easily be wrong about this, is that the fertiliser producing plants, of which CO2 is a significant by product, have closed down for essential maintenance work.
These plants have scheduled closures every year, so why the crisis this year?

I have no idea.

It could be that this is a cover story for something else - all I know is that something doesn't quite seem right about all this and I suspect that we are being misled and / or lied to for some reason.



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: eriktheawful

do you know anything about the c02 process?

I've read 2 things about it 1 source of food grade c02 is fermentation and another is oil??

not sure it was very hard to find information about it for some reason


"Food Grade" CO2 simply means that it's been filtered so that there are no other particulates in the CO2.

CO2 is normally purchased as a compressed gas, or as Dry Ice.


Beer making is normally 3 stages:

1) Primary fermentation of the wort (the liquid that contains the malts, hops and other ingredients). This produces a very large amount of CO2 gas. Lasts about a week.

2) Secondary fermentation. This is where the yeast is consuming more complex sugars in the wort. Again, lasts about a week.

3) Carbonation: This can be done either naturally (the yeast in the beer gets a boost from adding a little more malt or dextro sugars), or artificially (injecting the beer with compressed CO2 gas). The natural way takes about 1 week to 10 days. The artificial method is hours or less.

So brewing beer completely naturally (no CO2 injection) takes about 3 weeks. Doing CO2 artificially in the last stage means making the beer in only about 2 weeks.

Large beer companies are not going to want to wait that extra week, so they do the injection method, though prior to the 1930s (actually, 1950s is when it really caught on) they had to do it naturally.

The funny thing about kegging (injecting CO2) is that while it might speed up the carbonation, most beers taste a hell of a lot better after they've aged a few extra weeks. I've always found hand crafted beers a superior product compared to the store bought crap.

Cheaper too.



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn




It could be that this is a cover story for something else - all I know is that something doesn't quite seem right about all this and I suspect that we are being misled and / or lied to for some reason.


this is my theory

www.agweb.com...
abruptearthchanges.com...

that's only 2 examples



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: eriktheawful

Thanks for clearing that up not sure why that was so hard to find information on.



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 09:40 AM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: eriktheawful

Thanks for clearing that up not sure why that was so hard to find information on.


Most likely because CO2 is normally used in large quantities for carbonating beer and sodas.

I make homemade Root Beer here at home too. Huge amounts of Sassafras grows here in South Carolina, and I've got tons of the stuff here on my 10 acres I live on.

Naturally carbonated too, only it takes a lot less time to make it than beer itself.



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 05:48 PM
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The CO2 is just a byproduct of the manufacturing of ammonia based fertilizer. There's very little margin on selling CO2, so production planning is insync with the demand for fertilizer. So the companies that produce CO2 are not that concerned about the supply and demand of CO2. Demand for fertilizers rises in the fall so maintenance on the facilities is done in the spring/summer. No coordination, every plant just does their thing. And there are only 5 plants in europe.

On top of that they forgot about the soccer worldchampionship, apparently during the poule stage alone UK consumes an additional 14 million beers. And the current heat wave has demand rise even more.
And one of the main reasons that the extra CO2 gets added is to create the pressure needed to let it flow through the tap.



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn




What I don't understand is if it is common practice to close down these plants for essential maintenance work at this time of year why hasn't this problem arisen before?


The World cup and exceptionally good weather may have something to do with it.



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

CO2 is also used to “numb” animals prior to slaughter. That is a use I didn’t know of.

The problem lies with viewing it as a waste product. People will be fighting for the atmosphere when supercritical CO2 turbines become the new thing!

Fermentation creates CO2 as a by product. Most grains are partially fermented converting starch to sugar making it easier (I.e., faster and cheaper) for animals to process. Since it is part of the natural carbon cycle it is not captured. That means if the supply is diverted there could be regional disruptions.

I have a thread up on an electric power station burning natural gas in oxygen and using the CO2 to turn a turbine. The waste products are CO2 and water. The CO2 is ready for any purpose.

Soon, everybody will doing this because it is free. And the all mighty dollar rules them all.



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