Left-wing Political hay or real xenophobic hate crimes against humanity

originally posted by: Boadicea

Really? REALLY??? You are going to equate personal responsibility for one's willful actions as rioting???

No I'm talking about the left wing pretzel logic that any black man gets shot no matter how bad he begged for it, they riot.

Let's be a little more specific... so it's okay for government sanctioned pedophiles to rape and sodomize children without penalty because their parents did something stupid??? And if I or someone else demands personal responsibility on the part of that pedophile, it's equal to rioting?

My first time ever using this term...
You seem unhinged.
LOL

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

No I'm talking about the left wing pretzel logic that any black man gets shot no matter how bad he begged for it, they riot.

As an analogy to what? You wanted to play... now play.

You seem unhinged.

And you seem like a cowardly coward hiding behind abused children as you throw rocks for cheap political thrills. I'll take being "unhinged" over bully any day. Especially when it comes to the abuse of children.

a reply to: Boadicea

That was a bit brutal wasn't it, for his unhinged comment.

originally posted by: BotheLumberJack
a reply to: Boadicea

That was a bit brutal wasn't it, for his unhinged comment.

Brutal? Not at all. Harsh? Sure. Full of contempt? You betcha!!! But brutal? Nope.

Brutal is what the helpless and defenseless kids caught in our detention centers are suffering every day at the hands of their keepers.

a reply to: Boadicea

As an analogy to your interpretation of what Personal Responsibility means in all this.

And wow I was just ribbing you, way to actually become unhinged.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Yea they should just start executing people right??? That’s a full measure... right????


Lol..

The only thing we can do is throw them in a concrete box. That is the only option we have for any criminal deterrant.. well that and execution..


We don’t get to decide for them to stop comming.. just if we want to pay 80k per person per year to incarcerate them...


The same exact choice we have with drugs...

We don’t get to choose for people to stop using drugs.. we can just decide to incarcerate them if they do.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: network dude

It's an irrelevant question because you are framing it as if the answer means the US government is NOT responsible for separating the children from their parents. I do not agree with your opinion on who is responsible. If the US government policies result is children being separated from their mothers then that is a responsibility of the US government. Act some point, the government is responsible for government policies.

Why not have a policy where the entire family is kept together and deported together? I'm not being pro-illegal aliens. I just think separating children from their mothers is immoral.

Then you can rest easy. Trump signed an Executive order to ensure the kids stay with their parents. They can all be in the same cell together.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Boadicea

As an analogy to your interpretation of what Personal Responsibility means in all this.

And wow I was just ribbing you, way to actually become unhinged.

Cop out. And I'm not surprised. At all.

From you, I will take "unhinged" as a badge of honor and courage... to paraphrase Goldwater: Passion in the defense of liberty is no vice, and cowardice in the face of tyranny is no virtue.

a reply to: Boadicea

How did you find a victory in all of that? I took you head on, on past into where your responses became went of the deep end into incoherence and insults.

Talk about becoming unhinged!

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Boadicea

How did you find a victory in all of that? I took you head on, on past into where your responses became went of the deep end into incoherence and insults.

Talk about becoming unhinged!

Yeah... yeah... whatever.

I made the points I wanted to make and I'm happy to let our words stand on their own merit.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Personal responsibility only goes as far as one's own actions... doesn't matter what anyone else does or doesn't do, we are all personally responsible for what we choose to do and not do in response.

Many -- perhaps most -- of these kids are being abused in these detention centers in various ways. Everyone who put them in that position is responsible for their part. Everyone. Not just the parents.

I understand that, but I'm getting to the foundation of the problem--I'm talking about the initial action that resulted in this issue, and that is the parents choosing to undertake the arduous journey with their children to a place that they fully know (or a reasonable person should know) has detention facilities awaiting those who enter the country illegally or even for those seeking asylum while they wait for their asylum determination.

That is what put this issue into motion. If I chose to do the same thing with my family in tow, and we got caught and were separated (because one would assume that people being held for criminal activity don't generally get to fraternize with their family while detained), the cause of the family separation and the detention of myself and my children would be on me.

Apparently the feds are telling parents they can be reunited with their children immediately if they leave, and at least some are taking them up on it. I hope more do. I would much prefer that we send all of them on their way than to place one more child into custody.

While I agree that it'd be better just to catch them, turn them around, and send them home, the problem with that is that we have SCOTUS rulings that say that due process is a constitutional right for all people on American soil, not just people here legally on American soil.

That is where the issue with detention and the length of time people are detained and the overwhelming of the system comes into play--our government MUST, per the constitution, afford these people a right to a lawyer and a trial and all of the bells and whistles that any American would receive if they are arrested on suspicion of a crime.

So, yes, it is better to just keep them together for the days or couple weeks that it would take to send them back, but that's not really what we should be doing under the letter of the law. Furthermore, if they did not originate from a bordering country, different guidelines and rules apply as to how to get them returned to their home country, because we can't just shove Hondurans, for example, into Mexico. From what I've read, that's not allowed, but we are supposed to have agreements with each nation on how to deal with their citizens who enter here illegally.

And then, on top of all that (and it's my biggest concern), we still have the problem of proving familial relationships, because the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child states that nations must do everything within their power to prevent the kidnapping and trafficking of children. I think that it would be immoral to catch a group of people which includes adults and children in a known child-trafficking corridor and not ensure that family relationship exists before reuniting the children with the adults and releasing them.

But I feel your pain concerning the separation and reuniting--I have two kids myself, and every time that I watch a reunion of a child and their parent on the news, I get a bit teary eyed. But I also remind myself that some of those children are not really there with family, and we owe it to them to do everything that we can not to send them off to an unknown future.

It's a sucky situation all around, and I'll never deny that, but I'm not sure that a return to catch-and-release is the best thing to do overall in every situation.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Were/are they detained for entering the Country Illegally? Are they claiming Asylum without any documentation to back it up?

They are better ways to legally enter the country than these people are trying.

Follow the procedures or be prepared to suffer delays and setbacks. It takes time even under the best circumstances. No more letting people roam while we reach a decision.

I'm sorry for our lax immigration polices of the last decade or more, but these are the new ground rules everyone needs to follow.

Get with the program.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The only thing we can do is throw them in a concrete box. That is the only option we have for any criminal deterrant.. well that and execution..

Well, or there are warnings, fines, community service, house arrest, probation, etc., etc.

It's a...what's that term? Oh yeah...it's a logical fallacy to claim that there are only two extreme options in response to a single issue.

That's why we have different ways to charge Illegal Entry, one being a misdemeanor, and the other being a felony, with a range of punishment from which to choose when doing so.

The funniest thing about your comment is that, no, the death penalty is not a full measure, because Illegal Entry is not a capital offense. Why must you devolve into silliness to try a rebut relevant points put out by BFFT?

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Thank you, SlapMonkey, I always appreciate your comments!

I agree that these parents have their own reckoning to face for putting their kids in such dangerous positions -- from day one of their journey. And where I once believed that these folks were fleeing far more dangerous situations, and I could sympathize for/with them, I realize now that the conditions are not bad for many of these folks though. They are letting their heads be filled with nonsense about a better life and let their greed (for want of a better word) make their choice.

Nevertheless, once these kids are in our custody and care, we have an absolute responsibility to protect them from abusers and predators. Doesn't matter who did what before. (Although we sure aren't innocent in terms of past deeds either. Our critters created this mess.)

What we do at this point is totally and completely on us. Personal responsibility.