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What is it that you really want? (immigration)

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posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: introvert

are you really this daft?

who is it that is calling for the impeachment of Trump without a valid reason? who is it calling for Trump's cabinet members to be publicly harassed?

The whole reason I wrote this OP is that I really don't understand what your side seems to want. I think you want open borders and to dissolve ICE. If that's the case, just say it. If it's not the case, then you may at some point start to see the problem for what it is. Though with you, I doubt it.




posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Are they any more dangerous than the far right extremist who would do the exact same thing?

The point being that the option is wrong and should never have been used or brought up. But McConnel used it, he opened that door for the worst possible thing and now the country as a whole will suffer from it. Positions that should not be political were just made to be political. Time honored traditions that no one wanted to touch or put in danger are now being touched and put into danger.

This is not something that is new, but has happened already, though usually it is a t the state level, never the federal and now that the door is opened up, it is going to be exploited.



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 02:49 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Annee

Regardless, that doesn't reduce the implications of my statement.

Our Constitution charges the Federal government with ensuring each state enjoys a Republican form of government. This doesn't mean the GOP political party, of course, but instead refers to our nation's true political ideology: a Constitutionally constrained Republic

Our views (RE: illegal aliens and merit-only based legal immigration) are fully compatible with the Constitution. Failing to enforce the laws (violates the 14th amendment) does nothing but legitimize our government and legal system.


Seeking asylum is legal per the constitution.

The Right Extremists - - - are out in vocal force promoting lies about the current situation.

Again - - Extremism is Extremism.


you are absolutely correct. However, asylum seekers aren't the one's crossing the border at places that don't have checkpoints. Those are what we call "criminals".


But, that IS what the current headlines are all about.

I could walk to Mexico from where I am. Have been here for 30 years.

I am very familiar with what goes on on the border.





so you don't want the borders to be protected? Just say it if that's what you want.



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: introvert

I read all of your posts in this thread. You offered no solutions asked for in the OP.



You said I did not directly address the OP. Which I did.

Now you are moving the goalposts to offering solutions?

Make up your mind.



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: introvert


From my perspective, I'm getting what I want. So that may be part of the reason I'm a happy guy.


Because we don't WANT to have to separate families. And despite the fact that it happens WITHIN the US frequently (when any criminal parent is arrested, US citizen or not), no one likes to see that.

Instead, we're doing the right thing and will be sending all aliens without valid asylum claims home WITH their children(or presumptive credible asylum claims). We will be doing the same for unaccompanied minors, which are the vast majorities of minors in DHHR custody. However, those unaccompanied minors at the border were sent there, by a margin of 4:5, by their parents alone. They too will be returned home, to their parents.

So we're getting what we generally wanted. And doing the most-right thing at the same time.

Keep in mind: this happened under Obama, this happened under Bush, this happened under Clinton, et al. This also happens to millions of American citizens who broke the law and were separated from their children by virtue of incarceration.



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: introvert


This is all part of a pattern that we have seen for decades and that goes back to my original point on the issue. The Left does not want solutions. The Right does not want solutions. They want to use the issue as a tool to keep fools lined up against each other.


OK, and on that much I agree with you introvert.


Far Left? Where? There is no far Left in this country. The Democrats are just light-Republicans.


Democrats, right. But I'm not talking about Democrats. I'm talking about the far-left socialists/communists/antifa fools


So you are talking about a handful of people and they are "hanging" on to the party?

You specifically referred to Democrats and a few by name. So I'm unsure of your point.



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: sdcigarpig


Are they any more dangerous than the far right extremist who would do the exact same thing?


What is a far-right extremist? Are you referring to KKK/neo-nazi types? Domestic terrorists? Yeah, those guys are plenty dangerous. I won't and do not dispute that. They should also be expelled from public service and political influence whenever and wherever possible

However, that doesn't minimize the danger and threat posed by the far-left. Nor does that minimize the danger and threat posed by those far-right extremist groups as defined above. So where does that leave us?

But the vast majority of conservatives/libertarians/independents do not support those idiots, and openly condemn them.

When is the last time a mainstream Democrat condemned antifa/socialists/communists/far-left for the same? Still waiting on the left's leadership to admit antifa is a vile domestic terror group. Just as much as KKK/neo-nazis thugs


edit on 6/25/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: introvert

I read all of your posts in this thread. You offered no solutions asked for in the OP.



You said I did not directly address the OP. Which I did.

Now you are moving the goalposts to offering solutions?

Make up your mind.



Well in my mind the entire premise of the OP and the point of the OP and the spirit of the OP rests on that little thing he asked for in the end. Please offer your solution to the immigration issue. We already know what we are doing wrong, what solutions do you offer?



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: network dude



are you really this daft?

who is it that is calling for the impeachment of Trump without a valid reason? who is it calling for Trump's cabinet members to be publicly harassed?


Why does it matter what mean people say? The Republicans are in charge. They can say "screw them" and do what they think is right. But they are not.



The whole reason I wrote this OP is that I really don't understand what your side seems to want. I think you want open borders and to dissolve ICE. If that's the case, just say it. If it's not the case, then you may at some point start to see the problem for what it is. Though with you, I doubt it.


I told you what each side wants. Are you to daft yourself to even consider it?

People such as myself want an open border, but neither the Democrats or Republicans will even think about that. The Democrats are not open border.

So yes, there is a problem. There is a game being played that has been going on for years and you have no clue it is even being played. You ask other people what they want, when it doesn't matter in the slightest, and create an OP that shows you have no clue what the # is going on around you.

Here's an idea: Why don't you guys figure out what you guys want and get your leadership in DC to do your will. Stop asking others what they want, because we both know you are not truly interested.

You guys have the power. Do something with it and stop playing these damn games.



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

That is not my quote. I did not say that.



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: Alien Abduct

foolish feelings you post

too much bs to even bother with at this point



It’s not feelings, it’s called good logic. Have a good day!


i will meet you halfway

FAILED LOGIC it is

are you still mad cause they abducted you

i can understand that


peace out
edit on 25-6-2018 by howtonhawky because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: Alien Abduct



Well in my mind the entire premise of the OP and the point of the OP and the spirit of the OP rests on that little thing he asked for in the end. Please offer your solution to the immigration issue. We already know what we are doing wrong, what solutions do you offer?


This is the dishonest part. I've been saying for a long time that I believe open borders are the solutions.

Now that would be followed-up with several posts telling me how that is a bad idea, etc. Which refers back to my original point.

It's not about solutions. It's about partisan bickering.

What I think, or what the Left thinks is irrelevant. You guys voted the Republicans in DC to do work and not worry about what people such as myself think. But now that you have the power, nothing is getting done and people are all of the sudden concerned about what we think?

Please.

This is just continuing the same game that has been played for decades and you guys are falling right in to it.

People do not want solutions. They want hot-button issues to argue about.
edit on 25-6-2018 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: introvert

I apologize for not being more clear, as I frequently confuse myself by misspeaking and using the word "Democrat" or "lefty" in place of far-left extremist movement. To be sure, I appreciate the Democrats and their liberalism (I was one up until 2016)

What I do not appreciate is the petulant children (who lash out in anger) or the far-left extremists (who have co-opted the party for their own agenda) OR the fact that our/your leadership wouldn't stand up and stop it. Now you have a party that has pivoted so hard-left that it actually (in some cases) suggests destroying the 14th amendment (Lincoln's amendment, no less) by not equally enforcing our laws.

But worst of all is just how far that extremist faction is trying to go. All sense of logic, reason and common sense go out the window. But that is never an issue, so long as the person speaking is promoting far-left ideologies and ideas. But dare to suggest than an illegal immigrant actually (god forbid) be deported? And you're the devil incarnate to them. IT is ridiculous

Look at all of the lies this small-but-vocal far-left faction has pushed? All the collusion BS? The attacks against Trump? And if that wasn't bad enough, look what they do to Trump voters! We're attacked by these people for something as petty as having a different viewpoint or working for the "wrong" administration. Ridiculous

Do you know why none of the attacks against Trump have worked? Because they're all talk (click bait type BS) without any actual substance and NEVER any follow up/evidence. Have any of you guys ever asked yourselves how, if Schiff/et al. are to be believed, a massive amount of evidence RE: "collusion" hasn't already been discovered/leaked/etc? I mean, Schiff made the bold claim that he's seen evidence of collusion. So where is it? Why does Mueller seemingly disagree? So much that he chided liberal MSM for pushing bogus narratives and disinformation. And read Mueller's latest court filing on the matter. He isn't targeting Fox News (or as some horses ass will say: "Faux" news).

So when people on the right blow up over seemingly unrelated issues, try not to be *too* surprised. There is a lot of BS that has been building up, and we're tired of seeing our President, our culture, our country and our way of life attacked because some arrogant and elitist #### wills it.

edit on 6/25/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: introvert

Not everyone. But you are right for the most part. The only part I disagree with mostly is the open border part. I addressed that earlier in the thread with someone else.

What can the republicans do to get funding for the wall?



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:20 PM
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nm
edit on 25-6-2018 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: introvert

Here is that post. This is my argument against open borders...

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: Alien Abduct

yes we have jobs


We wouldn’t be able to sustain the amount of jobs needed with your proposal to essentially open the borders. Show me with citations where our economy could provide at least a million new jobs a month for our new immigrant population flowing over the border. This would be ON TOP of the new jobs needed to sustain our native population.


we have a minimum wage


Working 40/week @ minimum wage = POOR


the states can regulate how many we let in


That’s not a State function. Even if it were it would be very stupid, just because California (for example) wants to let in millions of immigrants it’s not fare to the other States where lots of those immigrants will likely end up (illegally).


remove the federal protections and the handouts while keeping track of them


So, give away all available jobs and flood the job market with a massive unsustainable influx of workers that there aren’t enough jobs for and then on top of that waste an incredible amount of resources and a massive amount of money so we can... “keep track of them”?


the numbers would not change much


The pay rates would reach minimum wage for jobs that should be paying middle to upper middle class jobs, it’s already happening.


this would not mean they could become citizens unless they go through the proper channels


There is already proper channels in place.


why would someone seeking handouts come here if there were no handouts?


Probably to seek a job. Even at minimum wage, I job in the United States would pay much more than they could dream of making in their home country. But for Americans? See my first comment in this post. Hint: work 40/week @ minimum wage = POOR


why would the dems want them here if they could not garner more votes?
Cheap labor, illegal votes/future votes, they feel sorry for them even at the expense of the well being of their fellow Americans that will have to compete for the (now even lower minimum wage) jobs with them.


think logically as to the current problems with the current system and find solutions


If this country used your definition of logic it would collapse in under five years.


is there some incentives i am missing?


Yeah as a matter of fact you did miss some. Where is the incentives for the United States to let in millions and millions of immigrants collapsing the job market, making millions of Americans and immigrants unemployed, burdening the safety net to the brink of failure, raising the deficit by a trillion and subsequently eventually causing total failure of our society?


edit on 6/25/2018 by Alien Abduct because: Fixed quote



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:32 PM
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originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: Alien Abduct

foolish feelings you post

too much bs to even bother with at this point



It’s not feelings, it’s called good logic. Have a good day!


i will meet you halfway

FAILED LOGIC it is

are you still mad cause they abducted you

i can understand that


peace out


I’m sorry you don’t have a good argument, all you have is insults. Very childish of you but hey, why should I expect any less?



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: JBurns



To be sure, I appreciate the Democrats and their liberalism (I was one up until 2016)


I'm sorry to hear that.



What I do not appreciate is the petulant children (who lash out in anger) or the far-left extremists (who have co-opted the party for their own agenda) OR the fact that our/your leadership wouldn't stand up and stop it. Now you have a party that has pivoted so hard-left that it actually (in some cases) suggests destroying the 14th amendment (Lincoln's amendment, no less) by not equally enforcing our laws.


Same thing occurs on the Right. I suppose some only see what they want to see.

The only thing I will disagree with is that the part has gone hard-Left. That is absurd.

The party cannot even put together a decent socialized healthcare plan. They are, again, light-Republicans.



So when people on the right blow up over seemingly unrelated issues, try not to be *too* surprised. There is a lot of BS that has been building up, and we're tired of seeing our President, our culture, our country and our way of life attacked because some arrogant and elitist #### wills it.


Who cares? You guys have the power. Do what you want without the concern of others.

Crying about culture and "way of life" are just empty platitudes that do not mean much.



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:36 PM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: introvert

Not everyone. But you are right for the most part. The only part I disagree with mostly is the open border part. I addressed that earlier in the thread with someone else.




Ok.



What can the republicans do to get funding for the wall?


I'm sure there are a variety of ways. Good thing is, it's not my problem.

The wall is Trump's/the Right's idea and they get to figure it out. Though, this topic in particular and how it would be funded is really throwing a wrench in the idea that Republicans are, or believe in, conservative.



posted on Jun, 25 2018 @ 03:40 PM
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a reply to: introvert

Perhaps the plan was to trade the kids to mexico for funding?

It is obvious that returning them was never on their minds until they were forced too.

I do wonder why if trump wanted the wall he passed on the 6 billion offered then he passed on the 25 billion offered.

Must be cause mexico is gonna pay for it still.not




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