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What is it that you really want? (immigration)

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posted on Jun, 27 2018 @ 07:55 PM
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originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: introvert

So adding millions of unskilled workers to a job force that will shrink drastically due to automation will do WHAT to those low skilled job's wages? Will they go up or down in your view?


My point exactly!




posted on Jun, 27 2018 @ 08:11 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: pavil



With automation we will have to retrain workers


Of course.



There wont be enough "grunt jobs" for such unskilled workers who immigrate here as you just described.


Then they will stop coming here for work.

Supply and demand.


They will still come looking for "the Better LIfe in America".

How will we stop that if not with a sound immigration policy?


The only way you will stop it is by no longer having a country worth coming to.


And here it is folks the BLOODY truth from Mr. Introvert! Make the United States a big BUTTHOLE so that no one will want to come here in the first place!

Oh but there is one other way sir.....secure the border like it’s a horses ass in fly season! Give it as much importance as Israel does their border! Some of you say that it is too expensive... I say tell that to the other countries that are successfully maintaining a successful border wall for far less than it would cost the United States when it comes to percentage of GDP!



posted on Jun, 27 2018 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: network dude

They hate the president because the globalist liberal media brainwashed them

It's that simple

They're scared to admit they're wrong and that is why the media continue the narrative of just hate trump and attack his people

Oh and they're just not very bright sparks which doesn't help



posted on Jun, 27 2018 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Why i want immigration: millenials are not reproducing, causing negative net population growth. This means that the threat to Social Security is that much graver.

I've paid a lot of money in over the years...i intend on getting it back.


In many areas, we are very short on workers and in very desperate need of people in this country.



Which areas?


Food service is just one area. The wages in that field have blown up because of the shortage of labor.



So, how is that a bad thing for our fellow Americans in food service that are now enjoying a pay raise?


It's not, unless wages have such a profound affect on prices, which in turn affect people's decision on how often they eat out.

High wages for the chef do not mean much if there are fewer and fewer people coming through the door.


If the restaurant has to depend on low wage illegal workers to keep the business running then that restaurant shouldn’t be open and running in the first place. The wage being paid isn’t fair to illegal immigrants legal immigrants or even native citizens working there. Let alone insurance benefits or other benefits!


Besides that, the only reason any restaurant "has to" depend on low wage immigrant workers to stay open is because the other restaurants it competes with are doing so.

If all the restaurants stopped doing it, the nobody would need to do it to stay in business, because there would be no one to compete with who was doing it.

Would food prices go up? Yes. But so would wages at the bottom level.

When those wages go up, there is a bigger market to sell to, which creates business opportunities for the rich. So even the rich are better off.



posted on Jun, 29 2018 @ 07:35 PM
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I think it boils down to wether or not the child was born in the United states or not.

I think that is the issue.

Anyone born on us soil is an American. I feel that is the root cause of frustration. And americans generally dislike making any soil born child go through the pain of being forced out of this country.

Keep the family together, or keep the sanctity of our country as a family orientated one.

It is a difficult decision.

Especially considering foster care and adoption being something no child will ever recover from.

What I believe is the child no matter what age, should be able to make the choice; that of to stay in america under foster care, orbe sent back with their parents to where ever they came from. Absent any interference when doing so. At least given the child is old enough to speak and understand their choice. Which does not mean an age requirement but that of an intellectual requirement. Old enough to at least speak and understand their choice they should decide whole heartedly if they want to remain with their family or be put under foster care.

But everyone in the supreme court would rule against this. And the limbo further continues.

We as Americans who never had to deal with such an issue have no right to judge on such grounds. Saying that an illegal family should be entirely removed from this country goes against the principle of being born on us soil.

I believe no matter what happens, the child was born a us citizen, and should not be revoked rights to enter our country. But their family who is not born on us soil should not be handed citizenship just because they got in.

The child is all the focus of this argument and not the adults.

That is why this matter will never be resolved.

Hillary Clinton wants to make it a path to citizenship which I actually find be a tarnishing idea. Basically treating the United states as playground for a game of hide and seek with the rules being if you can stay hidden long enough you win. One where we do not know who the players are, or if they even play by the rules. Honestly this is how I feel about her idea.

I can actually agree with trumps decision to keep the family together, but the child's citizenship should not be jeopardized. In this manner, catching the illegal immigrants and deporting them back should still stand it's ground. It is just the children we really have to worry about. If the entire family is found not to be a citizen, then they must be deported. Which means the child was not born in the us they all go together.

If the child is born in the us they must have citizenship, but only the child can have that added. The parrents should not be given citizenship just for getting in and giving birth.

That is the principle that I believe in. Albeit a harsh one, but the truth will always hurt.



posted on Jul, 3 2018 @ 07:02 PM
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originally posted by: GiulXainx

We as Americans who never had to deal with such an issue have no right to judge on such grounds. Saying that an illegal family should be entirely removed from this country goes against the principle of being born on us soil.


They didn't "have to" either. It was a forseeable outcome.

Anyone who isn't a sociopath would refrain from having kids while they are busy illegally working in a foreign country.

If they do choose to reproduce while they are up here, it is only so they can use their own baby as a human shield/hostage.

Can you imagine someone selfish enough to deliberately put a child in harms way?

Why would you want to let such a person have their way?







I believe no matter what happens, the child was born a us citizen, and should not be revoked rights to enter our country. But their family who is not born on us soil should not be handed citizenship just because they got in.


The child's rights are in absolutely no possibly way whatsoever, even partially being kind of revoked, At all.

The child only has to live in Mexico until they achieve majority (age 18), and then they are free to return and live out the rest of their life in the USA.

It's not like they won's survive to age 18. Mexico is poor. It's not a zombie apocalypse. Just poor.





The child is all the focus of this argument and not the adults.

That is why this matter will never be resolved.

Hillary Clinton wants to make it a path to citizenship which I actually find be a tarnishing idea. Basically treating the United states as playground for a game of hide and seek with the rules being if you can stay hidden long enough you win. One where we do not know who the players are, or if they even play by the rules. Honestly this is how I feel about her idea.

I can actually agree with trumps decision to keep the family together, but the child's citizenship should not be jeopardized. In this manner, catching the illegal immigrants and deporting them back should still stand it's ground. It is just the children we really have to worry about. If the entire family is found not to be a citizen, then they must be deported. Which means the child was not born in the us they all go together.

If the child is born in the us they must have citizenship, but only the child can have that added. The parrents should not be given citizenship just for getting in and giving birth.

That is the principle that I believe in. Albeit a harsh one, but the truth will always hurt.



Absolutely agree.

People somehow just can't seem to see that 18 years is not life sentence. Especially for someone with most of their full 80 years left to live.



posted on Jul, 7 2018 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: network dude



What is it you want? I ask this in all sincerity. You don't like Trump, I get it. You are so afraid of Trump, you can't let a second go by without thinking of saying something about him, I get it. But at this point, I think it's time to step back and view this from an outside perceptive. You look like a lunatic. You have no clear message, and you don't seem to understand any of this, but all you know is you are angry.


Hello Network. This is late to your party, but I was reading through and felt like I might have an answer for you - at least as far as I'm concerned. I can't speak for everybody

I don't like Trump. So, there's that. This was Trump's (and Stephen Miller's?) baby, Sessions was his more than willing foot soldier. You say you don't care where it started, but that part is important

If we all agree that we have an immigration problem with no easy solutions - that's a start. Trump's attempt to force people's hands was extortion. It was not only cynical and unethical - it was actually cruel. Purposefully cruel. They miscalculated - and he was forced to cave. He literally had no choice. This fix wasn't something that he did because he was a good guy - it's just strategy

You want that people should be grateful?

You like Trump - and you support whatever it is he does. I have to assume. So, I could just as easily say maybe you should take a step back, think about why people are so angry and you might start to see that it isn't because we're all lunatics. Calling us lunatics kind of gives away the fact that you don't understand what you're looking at. No different from what you just said about - the lunatics

Beyond this, I have no advice



posted on Jul, 7 2018 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Any parent that isn't smart enough not to
drag thier own kid thru a hellish illegal border
crossing. Should be separated from all kids.
But child endangerment is way to good of
an argument for any mental case. Some
people love the elite more than the country
Itself.

edit on Rpm70718v57201800000001 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2018 @ 07:52 AM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: network dude

What's he going to do about reuniting the families he's already separated by his actions?
Now he says throw the court out of the picture. Just round them up and send them back over the border.
Excuse me while I try to figure out how this is different from catch and release he was so loud about criticizing.

So, apparently you are unaware that the 'release' part of 'catch and release' was releasing them into the general population of the United States? they didn't 'release' them back to their country of origin you know. Trump is sending them back immediately (as they should be).

Bigly difference if you ask me.



posted on Jul, 16 2018 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

so the facts don't matter at all? The FACT that this ins't Trump's law, but a US law that he is just enforcing. And do you know why he is enforcing it like he is? TO send a message. We will protect our borders, not like we used to, all half assed and all, but correctly.

The people crossing illegally are breaking the law. Our law. If you are good with that, what laws do you think we should ignore? Is ignoring laws better than changing them?

And most importantly, do you want open borders? If you don't, then where do you draw the line, stop every third person, just stop the scuzzy looking guys? Don't bother anyone with kids in tow?

I want you and others to think this through before you preach about morality and feelings. Do we care about children? Yes. Most people do and some of us actively try to help them, even if they aren't ours. But you can't ignore the unpleasant parts of this and think you are the good guy. I look forward to your well reasoned response. (sincerely)



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 12:11 AM
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The real question is : do we want to become the world's welfare state?

We must know we don't have the economic means to seriously absorb all of planet Earth's poverty. Even if we committed everything we had and everybody got on board and agreed to it, we would fail. If you think we can, I think it isn't a matter that you overestimate our economy, but rather you underestimate the amount of poverty out there.


So perhaps the question is: how much of the world's poverty should we try to shoulder?


Illegal immigrants are people trying to force our generosity without asking. Maybe they are poor and "need" what they are taking. But Mexico is not presently in the middle of a zombie apocalypse, so I think they would probably not die if they stayed. Just wouldn't be able to buy nice things.





originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: network dude


If we all agree that we have an immigration problem with no easy solutions - that's a start. Trump's attempt to force people's hands was extortion. It was not only cynical and unethical - it was actually cruel. Purposefully cruel. They miscalculated - and he was forced to cave. He literally had no choice. This fix wasn't something that he did because he was a good guy - it's just strategy

You want that people should be grateful?

You like Trump - and you support whatever it is he does. I have to assume. So, I could just as easily say maybe you should take a step back, think about why people are so angry and you might start to see that it isn't because we're all lunatics. Calling us lunatics kind of gives away the fact that you don't understand what you're looking at. No different from what you just said about - the lunatics

Beyond this, I have no advice





He's forcing us to at least discuss it, and seriously. It has been a long standing impasse, and nobody has been willing to do anything about it.

Trump going too far will mobilize the people who want to open the border, which will at least give them a chance of achieving their dream.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: network dude

My reasoned response is: separating children from their parents was Trump's choice

This is a barbaric choice

Asylum seekers are within their rights to ask for asylum, and not criminals until proven guilty

This is not how human beings should treat each other

You're free to be suspicious of this source, but there are plenty of others. Facts are facts. Even when they make us uncomfortable
edit on 7/17/2018 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I think what is going on in that link is bait and switch.

No, there wasn't a law. There was a court decision, which 20 years later is still being argued. That decision requires the government to do certain things. Since Congress has failed to legislate a solution, the POTUS since that time (1997) have skirted the issue with EO's.

Trump stated he wanted Congress to do their job so the solution was long lasting, and not requiring the next POTUS to write another EO. I see nothing wrong with that, in theory.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




Trump stated he wanted Congress to do their job so the solution was long lasting, and not requiring the next POTUS to write another EO. I see nothing wrong with that, in theory.


I think you're a little more gentle with Trump than I am. This was his call - Sessions made it happen

Bottom line Tex - calling them illegals and treating them like criminals isn't really being honest. For starters. It sure as hell is not humane

How should we treat them? Arguing about who started what and when - and why - that's just politics. People use a fear of immigrants to make things happen - or not happen. As the case may be. Trying to spur on congress by creating hostages - this is not an honorable man or an honorable policy. For Christ's sake

My grandparents were no different from these people. The times were different - but immigrants were treated unfairly then too

Mass migrations because of war, politics, religious persecution, economics and famine...this has been going on since the dawn of time. How we respond to these situations says a lot about our character

I could give a rat's F about the letter of the law or who started what. This was Trump's call, it happened on his watch. No whataboutism changes any of that
edit on 7/17/2018 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Not caring about the letter of the law is what allowed it to happen in the first place. At any point since 1997, the men and women drawing a salary as legislators for the USA could have done their job and addressed the issue. Had that happened at any time in that 21 year history, then none of this would be discussed today.

It seems like our elected officials are elected to solve problems, not kick cans. Kicking cans is how they keep getting elected (no need to fund something for 20 years when you can twist peoples arms every 2 years before voting on funding again, as an example).

Trump may suck....but he isn't the only element of government. And this entire farce arises out of one of the other elements of government refusing to do what they are elected and paid to do. Just make sure to reserve a little contempt for the other actors in this drama.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan



Trump may suck....but he isn't the only element of government. And this entire farce arises out of one of the other elements of government refusing to do what they are elected and paid to do. Just make sure to reserve a little contempt for the other actors in this drama.

Trump may suck? ;-)

Moving on...I don't remember Obama getting the kid glove treatment - from you or anybody else. I'll be in charge of where I spread my contempt Tex - thank you very much

Right now there is a conservative congress, a conservative senate and a (conservative) president - what happens now is up to them. Everyone else can only react. Just sayin' it like it is

What we're talking about now is the fact that kids were ripped from their parents - and put in camps. Babies. There was to be no communication system, no way to trace them - no plan to reunite them. There is no way to dress this up or blame it on anyone else

The Party of Personal Responsibility owns this



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Trump isn't a conservative president. Its more like there are Democrats who hate him. Republicans who hate him but are willing to work with him sometimes if it gets them re-elected, then there is Trump (the nationalist). Expecting a republican congress to do something is as ridiculous as expecting a democrat one (they owned the house a few years back and also accomplished nothing, including foisting ACA on us when they had to votes to give us something better).

And that has been a repeating issue from Trump: Congress doesn't do their jobs and needs to be over turned.

When you say "babies"...can you quantify that? I went looking for some truth to that, and found 1 instance of a baby that was still allowed to be with mom.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 01:20 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: network dude

My reasoned response is: separating children from their parents was Trump's choice

This is a barbaric choice

Asylum seekers are within their rights to ask for asylum, and not criminals until proven guilty

This is not how human beings should treat each other

You're free to be suspicious of this source, but there are plenty of others. Facts are facts. Even when they make us uncomfortable


You are aware that this all happened under other presidents than Trump aren't you? Trump initiated a zero tolerance policy due to the idiocy of the previous ways. (they were sending the offenders out into the US and hoping they would show up to court, they didn't.)

You haven't answered the important question yet. Are you for open borders? It really matters as to how this conversation will go.



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


Trump isn't a conservative president.

This is why the parenthesis


And that has been a repeating issue from Trump: Congress doesn't do their jobs and needs to be over turned.

End justifies the means? Still his call. It's reprehensible


When you say "babies"...can you quantify that? I went looking for some truth to that, and found 1 instance of a baby that was still allowed to be with mom.


Sessions replied, “We don’t want to do this at all. If people don’t want to be separated from their children, they should not bring them with them.”


“Most are not infants. Most are teenagers, although we do have a number of younger ones now, more than we’ve seen recently,” Sessions said, referring to the scores of children and teens being separated from their families while attempting the cross the border. “They are maintained in a very safe environment not by the law enforcement team at Homeland Security, but put with Health and Human Services. And they are kept close by, and if the person pleads guilty, they would be deported promptly, and they can take their children with them.”

Hewitt argued that the idea of infants and toddlers being taken from their parents was “disturb[ing].


Fake news?


But new data reviewed by The New York Times shows that more than 700 children have been taken from adults claiming to be their parents since October, including more than 100 children under the age of 4.


Let's not split hairs - toddlers are babies. They are all just children. There is no way to spin this into something good Tex. Sometimes things are bad - and you have to call them what they are



posted on Jul, 17 2018 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: network dude



You are aware that this all happened under other presidents than Trump aren't you? Trump initiated a zero tolerance policy due to the idiocy of the previous ways. (they were sending the offenders out into the US and hoping they would show up to court, they didn't.)

You're ignoring that this was Trump's call to make - to separate children from their parents. If you don't want to acknowledge this I can't make you. But it is what it is

It's wrong - immoral. Trump is amoral


You haven't answered the important question yet. Are you for open borders? It really matters as to how this conversation will go.

Why does it matter? Open borders or not - the way we treat other human beings has nothing to do with this. Explain to me why the decision whether or not to abuse people is dependent on national policy?

I can already see how this conversation will go. You want to rationalize abusive behavior. You'll have to come up with your own loopholes - and massage your own conscience Network

I'm good





edit on 7/17/2018 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



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