Do you tip on beer?

a reply to: TrueBrit


It's six of one half dozen of another, your beer costs the same both ways, either through the tip or increased price of said beer and all you're doing is sticking the employee when you stiff them.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

No, stiffing them would be not giving a tip if I had taken the service. I simply refuse to use establishments which do not pay a set and acceptable hourly wage, thereby negating the need for running a tip service. There is a big difference. I would personally like to see consumers put all businesses whose employees rely on tips for any part of their wage, significant or otherwise, to put those employers out of business, or force them to do the right thing, by boycotting them.

Staff should be paid and paid well, for the time the spend at their work, an hourly rate that does not change to reflect how much custom there has been, or what mood their boss is in either. If you cannot afford to employ people under a proper wage payment scheme, whereby their hours are converted into currency in a fair manner, without the need for tips to augment them, then guess what? You shouldn't be permitted to employ anyone at all.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
Staff should be paid and paid well, for the time the spend at their work, an hourly rate that does not change to reflect how much custom there has been, or what mood their boss is in either. If you cannot afford to employ people under a proper wage payment scheme, whereby their hours are converted into currency in a fair manner, without the need for tips to augment them, then guess what? You shouldn't be permitted to employ anyone at all.

My point still stands, increasing their base pay increases the cost of goods so you'll be paying it regardless.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It is NOT the same in the least.

Here is why.

If a worker who relies on tips goes into work, gets on their uniform, lays out the tables, gets the dishes washed, makes sure all is right and proper for a days trade, and trade is slow, that effects their take home. If a worker who is paid a set amount, weekly or monthly, a wage which is appropriate, not as thin as possible by the way, goes to the same job, and has a slow week, their pay is protected by contract.

Again, I boycott establishments that rely on tips, because the tip system is exploitative, and places workers in an unstable position, something which cannot continue uncorrected.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
It is NOT the same in the least.

The price of the beer/food will go up, that is not open for dispute and what I am discussing.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: TrueBrit
It is NOT the same in the least.

The price of the beer/food will go up, that is not open for dispute and what I am discussing.

You are not in the least bit wrong.

My job is as an accountant for, among other things, restaurants and bars. Labor has a set range in our model. Other outlets have other models. But the model budgets a cost of labor and a cost of goods, setting a menu price that can ensure that targets are met.

If you adjust labor, you have to adjust price point. There is no way around it, especially with labor being such a huge factor in costs to begin with. The 2 biggest costs are food and labor in any restaurant (easily 30% of revenue each, if you aren't paying benefits)

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


Not sure why people don't grasp such a rather simple economic principal. You cannot raise wages while leaving food costs the same and expect to maintain the same level of profitability.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: TrueBrit
It is NOT the same in the least.

The price of the beer/food will go up, that is not open for dispute and what I am discussing.

It is why it is expensive to buy a pint in the UK.
I live in a tourist place by the coast and we have 'secret' locals cards so we pay less than people on vacation, but it is still expensive to have a pint at a pub by the beach or the harbour.
Nobody tips barstaff here, only servers at restaurants or whatever, but even then, only if the service was good.

Bar jobs here are usually above minimum wage and nobody tips, we just pay more for our ale. I prefer that compared to some guilt trip thing where X% is expected as a tip. Sounds nuts to me.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Bar jobs here are usually above minimum wage and nobody tips, we just pay more for our ale. I prefer that compared to some guilt trip thing where X% is expected as a tip. Sounds nuts to me.

I'd rather have the option to tip for good service and less for not so good service.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Different worlds us all
I expect good service just for being paid.

I always tip bar staff and we do not tip over here it is not expected.
Mind you I ran pubs for years so I appreciate the work.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: mblahnikluver
a reply to: Whoisjohngalt

I've worked in a bar for years and I never saw someone not tip on anything not even a water.

Was that a Mars Bar you worked at?

Yes it was pretty close to Gusev Crater

In the US it is law that if an employee isnt making enough in tips to meet federal minimum wage, then the employer have to come up with the difference. Here in California, minimum wage is the same for tipped and none tipped employees. So that " its how they make their money" arguement is invalid.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The price as listed on the menu will go up, to reflect that tips are no longer required, sure. But you said yourself, the total price of the dining or drinking experience wouldn't... Unless of course the price rise was partially ideological in nature, or designed to cover a "loss" to the executive which only exists because someone wants an extra bottle of expensive plonk in their cellar, not because it HAS to rise to cover running costs.

The whole point here is, that the people doing the footwork should get a fair, and therefore larger than is currently the case, cut of the pie. Its not that the pie must grow larger to accommodate that wage boost, without effecting the bottom line for the owner/executive of the company. The company must merely accept a slower rate of growth (which, if you look at the history of business as a whole, is MUCH better in terms of creating stable, healthy businesses which can survive market changes more readily). The rapid accumulation of wealth is not something that any business owner should expect, leave alone stamp their feet about when denied it.

If you want money fast, rob banks.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I agree, but either way, tipping someone just for pouring a pint is ridiculous.
It would be like tipping someone at McD's for handing you a burger and fries.
I prefer paying more for my ale without the guilt trip that I should pay X% extra to the exploited employees.
Bar staff earn above minimum wage in my parts generally though.

I tip in Restaurants, like I tip flags on ATS when I enjoy a post I like.

If the food is crappy I won't tip. My Sister is a Pro Chef of 35 years for Celebrities, i've seen how things are run in the kitchen and it's not pretty, if you serve crap food, the Chef will ream you out and make you redo it. Customer is always right kinda thing.

Generally though yeah, I tip.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
The whole point here is, that the people doing the footwork should get a fair...

The people doing the work could end up with a lot more than fair, I tend to over tip since I was in the business, and I know most of my compatriots do the same, setting a flat rate means they get doodily squat extra for good service, they get the same as the lazy slug not pulling their own weight.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Bully for you.

But the reality is that if a person is employed, they either need to be paid properly for the time they have worked, or laid the hell off. Its really very simple, the lazy employee should not be employed in the role they have gained themselves. Everyone else should be getting a fair shake, and be isolated from the fickle whims of the customer base, as well as being protected from having their earnings diminish as a result of a slow business day, week or month. Their pay MUST be stable and guaranteed, not minimal and only topped up by the kindness of others.

a reply to: TrueBrit


I'm not sure what Pollyanna-ish world that takes place but in the real world there are plenty of people who can skate for long enough to hinder the earning potential of the harder workers. Hard work almost always gets rewarded, tipping is meritorious.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Bully for you.

But the reality is that if a person is employed, they either need to be paid properly for the time they have worked, or laid the hell off. Its really very simple, the lazy employee should not be employed in the role they have gained themselves. Everyone else should be getting a fair shake, and be isolated from the fickle whims of the customer base, as well as being protected from having their earnings diminish as a result of a slow business day, week or month. Their pay MUST be stable and guaranteed, not minimal and only topped up by the kindness of others.

I know we don't always see eye to eye on things but I agree with you.
The hospitality industry 'is' our industry in my parts, and yes, in restaurants people tip, hotel porters etc get tips, but bars and pubs just pouring you a pint, never. It seems silly, like tipping someone at McDonalds as I said earlier.

People earn above minimum wage here usually anyway, they need to pay it because summer doesn't last long. My son's girlfriend works full time in retail but also does 3 nights serving at a restaurant. She makes more than her full time job sometimes from tips.
But if she worked in a bar she wouldn't expect any, nobody tips in a pub, unless they serve food, then maybe.
It must be a cultural thing, and the fact that US hospitality businesses exploit their staff.