The real fight over immigration.. and pretty much every other crime...

a reply to: Abysha

Your taxes are also paying for them to come across our border illegally and live here with no job skills to speak of.

So it's wrong to simply scream about incarcerating them for $40,000/year when you are easily producing that much or more to sustain them in social services money.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Agreed. If my taxes are paying a private industry to keep dangerous people away from society, they should only imprison violent criminals.

Community service actually helps our nation... why couldn't a crack addict or even white collar criminals just pick up trash for a few years and pay a fine?

Ding Ding Ding Ding!


Winner!


Exactly. Why spend 40-70K per year putting non-violent people away when we can have them do something productive. Since I am a "Civil Defense" kind of person. I would sentence them to continue to work if they have a job and instead of paying to lock them up, they get money sucked out of their check.

What is better, paying an on-going fine for 5 years or loosing your job while you are in jail for 5 years. The savings would be enormous.

For those who are jobless. Send them to the "Transformer Factories" that we set up to make transformers in the event of Grid issues. They get free food and rent while working at the factory for their months or years.

So this thread is partially about punishing illegal immigrants who are crossing the border to work here.
Your solution is to put jobless non-violent offenders (such as illegal aliens) in a work program....
In this one instance, wouldnt you just be punishing people by giving them what they want?

People from Mexico are paying their tax money to get them here.

The asylum seekers detained at the border are not Mexican citizens; they are in fact El Salvadoran and Honduran asylum seekers.

Mexico, in defiance of UN accords Mexico itself has signed, refuses to consider them for amnesty, but gives them a free ride to the US border. Drivers tell the refugees the most likely crossing points... and threaten to imprison them if they remain or return to Mexico.

The Leading immigrant receiving country on earth last year was... the United States of America. Because our system is THAT screwed up.

Everyone wants to come here. But everyone will tell you we are the most evil racist people on earth.

a reply to: Gothmog

Oh yea..


That’s a 5 year old number... I bet it is far higher now. I’ll find a source.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Your right, they should be deported at their own expense.

They can work it off transplanting cactus clones along the border.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Your right, they should be deported at their own expense.

They can work it off transplanting cactus clones along the border.

I have a San Padro fence along the back end of my property, many uses.

report by the organization, "The Price of Prisons," states that the cost of incarcerating one inmate in Fiscal 2010 was $31,307 per year. "In states like Connecticut, Washington state, New York, it's anywhere from $50,000 to $60,000," he said. Yes - $60,000 a year.A

a reply to: Gothmog

a reply to: highvein

Who said anything about walls?!!!


I asked if it was worth 40k per person ATLEAST.. likely 100k+ for families to incarcerate them???


Which is the only deterrent we have..


That’s not a trick question..


Some will say yes , some will say no..


But that’s the choice we have...


Everyone just magically deciding to stop breaking laws is not on the table lol..

a reply to: Whoisjohngalt

You can say ANYTHING damages the economy...


Churches damage the economy since those people don’t work on Sunday..


Speeding damages the economy because there are more auto wrecks..


Smoking pot damages the economy since I most cases it isn’t taxed..


That’s a BS distinction.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

A) is the incuding illegal entry??? Because that would make that a BS Stat.. I bet it does too..


B) assuming it is talking about theft, rape , murder ect..

We prosecute people for that reguardless of citizenship..



Remember.. we can’t decide for them not to come here. We can just decide to incarcerate them once they get here.

a reply to: ketsuko

It doesn’t cost 40k per person per year...

It is really the same with welfare..


What if 15k a year per person in welfare saves us 25k a year I incarcerating them..


Is the “boot straps” principle really worth 25k per person per year???


It’s the same thing with addicts..


Say treatment costs 20k a year and incarceration 40k.. is the principle worth double the money..


This dynamic doesn’t only apply to immigration. It applies to every law.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

BWAHAHAHA..


When have deterrents worked when it is something people want to do??


Terrorist attacks?? Nope


Prohibition?? Nope

The war on drugs?? Nope??


Rape and murder?? Nope and nope..


That is laughable..


We only get two choices..


Incarcerate them or don’t...

Send them back they come right back.


There is NO LAW that doesn’t apply to. It is the only option we ever have for anything.



Al I’m saying is don’t pretend like the there is an option where they stop comming because there isn’t.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Comparing peoples habits with places they may or may not go is like comparing apples with ribeye steaks.

A better comparison would be a store with no cameras or active security measures against shoplifting, with one that has cameras, security guards, magnetic tags, etc. Sure, a few extra slick and ballsy / stupid persons on occasion may make attempt and may even get something (especially if its a store they frequent and study it forever), but most that would contemplate it would see the cameras and not bother.

Your same logic would have people have no locks on their doors windows, no alarm systems, no camera systems, no safes hell no curtains over the bathroom or bedroom windows.

Put your big boy pants on dude.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

BWAHAHAHA..


When have deterrents worked when it is something people want to do??


Terrorist attacks?? Nope


Prohibition?? Nope

The war on drugs?? Nope??


Rape and murder?? Nope and nope..


That is laughable..


We only get two choices..


Incarcerate them or don’t...

Send them back they come right back.


There is NO LAW that doesn’t apply to. It is the only option we ever have for anything.



Al I’m saying is don’t pretend like the there is an option where they stop comming because there isn’t.

You forgot gun control....

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

Al I’m saying is don’t pretend like the there is an option where they stop comming because there isn’t.

Clearly you missed my thread the other day:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: tovenar

Everyone wants to come here. But everyone will tell you we are the most evil racist people on earth.

Lol!!

Isn't that the truth?

originally posted by: Muninn

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Your right, they should be deported at their own expense.

They can work it off transplanting cactus clones along the border.

I have a San Padro fence along the back end of my property, many uses.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Whoisjohngalt

You can say ANYTHING damages the economy...


Churches damage the economy since those people don’t work on Sunday..


Speeding damages the economy because there are more auto wrecks..


Smoking pot damages the economy since I most cases it isn’t taxed..


That’s a BS distinction.

Well, two of those things are illegal, and will land you a fine and maybe jail time.
Are you saying we should shake down immigrants at the border before we turn them around?

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Forget the cost.... what right do we have to deny liberty and the pursuit of happiness to anyone if they are not violating the rights of others to liberty and the pursuit of happiness???

If someone is a threat or danger to society, then we must pay whatever price to protect society from that person. It's not about the cost.

But there's no justification and no virtue in locking up people who are no threat to others. None. I would even go so far as to say that non-violent offenders should never be incarcerated; at most, ankle monitor and home detention.

We have become a very judgmental and punitive society. To the point that our punishments are a greater burden (and threat) to society than the "criminals."

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Forget the cost.... what right do we have to deny liberty and the pursuit of happiness to anyone if they are not violating the rights of others to liberty and the pursuit of happiness
"

Every illegal immigrant who comes here Is planning to cheat the tax code.

Actual U.S. Citizens live in fear of filling out their taxes wrong, because an IRS audit can cost you thousands, if not everything.

But illegals are never charged with tax fraud, and every one of them commits it. That's inherently unjust.