When was the earliest abduction?

Originally posted by Griffin master
I mean normal ones I dont mean them nutty ones in the bible and stuff.

Oh so its nutty why because:
It was written(enoch) originaly over 5000 years ago!
Or that JEWS wrote it! cause the summerians and others wrote about it too!
Or that you make the claim that jews were BAD RECORD KEEPERS!
Or that people who belive in god or gods are insane!
please define nutty ,buddy.......... lol, no pun intended

[edit on 25-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]

Originally posted by Reality Czech
What makes it more believable to say that Biblical figures interacted with extraterrestrials, and not the divine being they claimed to come into contact with?

I dont see any difference between the two and i am not alone in that perception.

Originally posted by lizzardsamok
I see many reasons to interpret it that way sorry you cant even see the connection.

You see a connection where there is none.

one mans angel is anothers demon is anothers alien is another mans GOD!

Or it could just mean god. Really no way to tell, is there? One can only really talk about things that are reported as alien abductions as being alien abductions.

and not circles but disks with non human beings who came out of them:

This equally lends support to them being something like a psychological archetype.

FACT accept it!

Fact: The first reports of alien abductions are from the late 1950s.

if some one is kiddnapped they are kidnaapped same thing no matter who or what it is!

These guys you mentioned were not kidnapped, they were brought to heaven by their god and his angels. They weren't paralyzed by white light and lifted up into a storage bay, or probed with metal instruments. You are assuming that they are alien abductions reported as encounters with god. They might very well be, but the evidence doesn't exlusively support it. Also, often in the 'ecstatic vision' types of encounters, what you are saying is the alien doesn't just appear as a bizzare god, but actually appears as the virgin mary herself, and tells the person to build a shrine to her and what not. If you and I didn't know who the 'virgin mary' was, we might say 'these people saw and alien and called it a god'. But thats not somethign one can be 'mistaken' about. So how can one distinguish between reports of actual alien encounters and stories that are just of weird gods?

and cornering skeptics is harmful to a skeptics pride only.

Ah, so that is what you meant. When has this happened?

Originally posted by Nygdan
These guys you mentioned were not kidnapped, they were brought to heaven by their god and his angels. They weren't paralyzed by white light and lifted up into a storage bay, or probed with metal instruments.

yes they were god took them it says, it doesnt say he asked them to go for a ride now does it!

other being taking you is kiddnapping!

They weren't paralyzed by white light

ah yes they were, almost all accounts even moses have pillars of light and enoch had a pillar of light take him into a whirwind which then went up into heaven.

storage bay, or probed with metal instruments

so where is it a fact that every being in the universe has a storage bay and metal probes!
i was abducted and saw no storage bay or metal probes as you say.

Also, often in the 'ecstatic vision' types of encounters, what you are saying is the alien doesn't just appear as a bizzare god, but actually appears as the virgin mary herself, and tells the person to build a shrine to her and what not. If you and I didn't know who the 'virgin mary' was, we might say 'these people saw and alien and called it a god'. But thats not somethign one can be 'mistaken' about. So how can one distinguish between reports of actual alien encounters and stories that are just of weird gods?

I never once ,not one time mentioned virgin mary !!!!!!!
it is you who continue to reference a lady who was not even born at the time of the accounts we are currently disscussing!!!!!!
and it has no relavence to enoch or elijah by the way.


[edit on 25-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource
Adam was the first abductee.

Genesis 2:21
"So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh."

Don't know if they took him in a ship or not. But certainly causing a deep sleep to perform an operation would be an abduction.

VERY VERY good Shadow! I never actually put THAT thought together before! Koodoes to you for this! I agree with you........

The ANCIENT ASTRONAUT site is great........alot of amazing things you may not have realised are there.

I am harassing my photographer buddy who hikes to ancient rock panels with me, to email some of the panel pics we have taken, that CLEARLY SHOW an account of 'something' from the sky, doing 'things' to the native populice. They are not here yet........but I am hoping. It would be nice to back up my claims with pic PROOF....I am working on that.

ya ya KUDOS I NEVER thought about that good job man.... wow damn damn good job

I'm getting ready to cry here. Everyone has been told about Ezekial seeing some alien ship, when he saw no such of a thing. If you would read on ahead a few chapters, he explains EXACTLY what he saw. First off, it was in a vision, so nothing was actually SEEN; it was percieved in a dream.

In fact, the first verse of the book Ezekial tells us that it's all just a series of visions had by him:

1: Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.

Now, to me, this sounds quite literally, like a vision. If that's the case, then what he saw was in a dream. As for the rest of the apparent et experiences in the Bible, I have no idea about those, but I must stand firm on the opinion that Ezekial saw nothing.

Don't know if they took him in a ship or not. But certainly causing a deep sleep to perform an operation would be an abduction.

thats not related in any remote way to abduction!
maybe surgery and genetic manipulation but it doesnt say a ufo came down and took him then brought him back, but enoch does....

I'm getting ready to cry here.

Oh get a life !

First off, it was in a vision, so nothing was actually SEEN; it was percieved in a dream.

as far as visions if you do some research youll find visions then meant something totaly different then what it does today.
notice the heavens opened up and he was awake not asleep!
and that he LOOKED WITH HIS EYES!

I, but I must stand firm on the opinion that Ezekial saw nothing.

He said he looked, every one who wrote the bible thought it was important,
you come along living how many years? and say he saw nothing! HAH
did you even read it? or how about book of enoch?

Ezekiel 1:4
and i LOOKED and behold a whirlwind came from north, A GREAT CLOUD, and a FIRE INFOLDING in ITSELF, and a BRIGHTNESS was AROUND IT!
and out of the middle of it came a mist of yellow downward and so did FOUR LIVING CREATURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it goes on but that first paragraph alone proves my point.



[edit on 25-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]

Originally posted by lizzardsamok

Don't know if they took him in a ship or not. But certainly causing a deep sleep to perform an operation would be an abduction.

thats not related in any remote way to abduction!
maybe surgery and genetic manipulation but it doesnt say a ufo came down and took him then brought him back, but enoch does...

It also doesn't say how or where woman was created. Nor does it go into detail how the heavens and earth were formed. It doesn't tell us if animals were actually "created" over a long period of time, created on another planet and brought here, or if there were giant test tubes in the garden of eden. Maybe they had a lab set up.

Stop being annoyed and think for a second. We both know there's no proof of any of it. So we think logically.

Hmm, Emotion clouding your vision it is.

Originally posted by lizzardsamok

Originally posted by Nygdan
I never once ,not one time mentioned virgin mary !!!!!!!
it is you who continue to reference a lady who was not even born at the time of the accounts we are currently disscussing!!!!!!
and it has no relavence to enoch or elijah by the way

I bring up the virign mary because she is inlvoved in other 'encounters'.

SHALL I REPEAT:
thats not related in any remote way to abduction!
maybe surgery and genetic manipulation but it doesnt say a ufo came down and took him then brought him back, but enoch does...

yes, rampant stupidity is annoying to me.

Disclaimer: meaning stupidity annoys me personaly , not meaning you are stupid , full of stupidity, or are inferior in any way , or that your family is genetically challenged.....

Nygdan
so what relevance is the virgin mary in the conversasion of things before the said "mary" even existed?


[edit on 25-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]

Originally posted by lizzardsamok
SHALL I REPEAT:
thats not related in any remote way to abduction!
maybe surgery and genetic manipulation but it doesnt say a ufo came down and took him then brought him back, but enoch does...

yes, rampant stupidity is annoying to me.

Disclaimer: meaning stupidity annoys me personaly , not meaning you are stupid , full of stupidity, or are inferior in any way , or that your family is genetically challenged.....

[edit on 25-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]

Ah, the statement is definitely more thought out now that you repeated it.

Maybe it's your own stupidity that is annoying you so much. I doubt your ego would even let you consider that though.

Carry on...

Stop being annoyed and think for a second.
Hmm, Emotion clouding your vision it is!

RIGHT BACK AT YOU,...... have a nice day

I want reports of early human abduction by aleins/ufos
theres no way else that I could think of to put it plainly thank you

I hold my piece wheres yours?

www.ancienttexts.org...
read this its BOOK OF ENOCH , the first chapter is named WATCHERS , it meant Angels or other beings that watch men on earth ! this is older than NOAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was abducted several years ago and the Incident still haunts my mind. I have learned to deal with it but I sill have fears of being taken again!

I'll put it another way. I'm assuming we are talking about aliens seeding mankind on Earth. This being our assumption who would be the first abductee? The Seed would. Not the seed's seed's seed. Seed what I mean?

Originally posted by lizzardsamok

First off, it was in a vision, so nothing was actually SEEN; it was percieved in a dream.

as far as visions if you do some research youll find visions then meant something totaly different then what it does today.
notice the heavens opened up and he was awake not asleep!
and that he LOOKED WITH HIS EYES!

Please further enlighten me then on the ancient definitons of the word 'Vision'.

I, but I must stand firm on the opinion that Ezekial saw nothing.

He said he looked, every one who wrote the bible thought it was important,
you come along living how many years? and say he saw nothing! HAH
did you even read it? or how about book of enoch?

And you come along, how many years later, and claim that it's an alien spaceship. At least my interpretation is more believable. Oh, and just so you know, I've done extensive research on this particular incident in history.

Ezekiel 1:4
and i LOOKED and behold a whirlwind came from north, A GREAT CLOUD, and a FIRE INFOLDING in ITSELF, and a BRIGHTNESS was AROUND IT!
and out of the middle of it came a mist of yellow downward and so did FOUR LIVING CREATURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it goes on but that first paragraph alone proves my point.

[edit on 25-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]

Again, this is a vision; not something he ACTUALLY saw!! Ask anyone that's actually had a vision, and I'll wager that all will tell you that the vast majority of the vision is metaphorical for something else. How else do you think that Ezekiel could convey what he "saw" to the people than the way he did it? Oh, and just so you know, when you dream, you "see" things too. You don't have to be awake, or in this plane of existence to "see" things.

For the record, I would LOVE to believe that God mentioned aliens and spacecraft in the Bible, but alas, I haven't found anything that plainly says that. The only thing I have that remotely suggests such a thing is in Genesis where he says that "the sons of God saw the daughters of men, and took of them all of which they chose." Tie that in with there being people in the Land of Nod, when the only ones we knew of previously were Adam, Eve, Cain and Abel, and you have a little predicament on your hands.

Again, I wish it were true that spaceships were mentioned, but they aren't. Sorry.

[edit on 26-2-2005 by TheBorg]

vision = a religious or mystical experience of a supernatural appearance;

i guess some people just dont get it...........
oh well.....

[edit on 26-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]

Originally posted by lizzardsamok
vision = a religious or mystical experience of a supernatural appearance;

i guess some people just dont get it...........
oh well.....

[edit on 26-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]

Might I also reference you to the rest of the definitons of this word. They are synonomous to the one that you gave, and they even included that one. They can be found at: Vision definitions

1. vision -- (a vivid mental image; "he had a vision of his own death")
2. sight, vision, visual sense, visual modality -- (the ability to see; the faculty of vision)
3. vision, visual sensation -- (the perceptual experience of seeing; "the runners emerged from the trees into his clear vision"; "he had a visual sensation of intense light")
4. imagination, imaginativeness, vision -- (the formation of a mental image of something that is not perceived as real and is not present to the senses; "popular imagination created a world of demons"; "imagination reveals what the world could be")
5. vision -- (a religious or mystical experience of a supernatural appearance; "he had a vision of the Virgin Mary")

Now, might I suggest that ALL of these are correct. And I should also mention that when one person sees the Virgin Mary, not everyone shares in that same belief. You are under the impression that there's only ONE way to see this. True, Ezekiel's experience could be percieved as an UFO experience, but it's still just a vision; as in it never happened. I agree that both definitions 4 and 5 are probably the applicable ones here.