When was the earliest abduction?

Originally posted by Lamagraa
I have been looking only really believable one is the one in 1961 though the 1958 one kinda smells fishy to me

www.galactic-server.com...

Here's one that deals with a dutch businessman. They say the dutch government has said this story is real. It's the only one that believe it could be real, besides the ummo one.

i hear in the bible some guy (izeaceal?) was taked by "god" said something about light engulfing him. sonds like a tractor beam

thank you all for your help keep it coming =P

In the 4 corners area of the SouthWest USA...Utah/Colorado/NewMexico/Arizona.....The ancient annasassi culture has left ALOT of 'rock art' behind.
I personally have seen MANY a rock art panel, wich is showing some type of saucer shape in the sky, and people below looking up. Also I have seen beam like lines eminating from the 'craft' thing in the sky, with people seaming to be trapped in this beam, or floating in this beam.
Archioligist argue the EXACT meaning of such rock art. Most say these are rendition of sky/weather gods, but I personally differ from that view. Seams to ME this is EXACTLY what it looks to be, recordings on stone of ancient abductions in progress.

These rock art panels are dated at 800 bc, AND OLDER.....so these rock art renditions pre date Eziekial 'wheels' wich are recorded in the bible.

[edit on 21-2-2005 by theRiverGoddess]

thanks river goddess next benchmark 800b.c.?? then thank you very much

Originally posted by Terapin
ezekial is a great Ailen abduction story in the bible. it even has a great wheel of light ( UFO) Worth a look for your research

ezekiel never got taken in the craft just saw it,

Enoch was first abduction in recorded history,

GEN 6:24"enoch walked with god and was not for god took him in a firery chariot"
he wrote a book of which genisis was based called book of enoch its available online.

next was elijah
2 Kings 2:11 "behold there appeared achariot of fire and elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven"


[edit on 22-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]

The first modern one is Betty and Barney Hill on September 19, 1961.

Pretty much the regarded signature case. There were some in the 50's (accounts at least), but most involved sexual romps with naked Venusians, hehe... and are usually dismissed by most researchers.

It's also interesting to note that the mid 50's marked a change, where people went from just seeing the crafts, to actually seeing them on the ground and the aliens themselves. Shortly after this, is when we get the first abduction stories...

BTW, for anyone who's never checked into it, I suggest really looking at the Hill case, as it's remarkable for many reasons....

I think its really interesting that no one seems to know when the first claimed alien abduction actually was.

Sagan had a theory, I suppose it was actually posited by others too, that alin abductions are merely the same social-psychological event as witnessing manifestations of divine beings or being carried into heaven. Many people here seem to agree that the ancient accounts of being brought up into heaven is the same sort of thing (although ina diffrent way).

Surely, there is an earliest reported case of 'aliens picked me up' in modern times? From what I understand, sightings of 'saucers' don't appear until 'saucers' enter the media, and alien abductions correspond to sci-fi stories about, well, aliens.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I think its really interesting that no one seems to know when the first claimed alien abduction actually was.

no one huh, ummmm I just listed 3....

Sagan had a theory, I suppose it was actually posited by others too, that alin abductions are merely the same social-psychological event as witnessing manifestations of divine beings or being carried into heaven. Many people here seem to agree that the ancient accounts of being brought up into heaven is the same sort of thing (although ina diffrent way).

how is it different, its not different at all?
perhaps their perception of what they were seeing was only difference from today as we are alot more educated, well some of us anyhow.

Surely, there is an earliest reported case of 'aliens picked me up' in modern times? From what I understand, sightings of 'saucers' don't appear until 'saucers' enter the media, and alien abductions correspond to sci-fi stories about, well, aliens.

Oh yeah are you suggesting the media was in the caves when aborigonees were painting SUACER shaped craft on there walls?
or perhaps the media was there in the 14th century when artists pianted suacers in their religous pintings .....
and the 15th and the 16th -18th centuries also..... yeah those time traveling media sure do get around huh nygdan...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
funny how they all look the same thru time even 10000 years ,still saucer shaped craft huh just another coincedence i guess the media kept that the same too...
the media traveled the world inscribing on rocks , cave walls, ancient sanskrit clay texts,scrolls and implanting somehow firsthand accounts into people who never met even on the other side of this planet thruoghout all of recorded time.........

thats just ridiculous and uneducated and i dont mean that as an insult but its eveident you are not educated on many known things and make judgements based on your own speculation and nothing else.

the term flying suacer was coined in the late 40's they were called vimmana before.


[edit on 22-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]

Originally posted by lizzardsamok
I just listed 3

Those were listed by people previous to you, and neither ezikial, enoch nor elijiah said 'i was taken into a faster than light traveling space-ship that was manned by extra-terrestrial beings'. I'm saying its intersting that, with all the alien buffs here, none of us know who the first person to make that specific claim was. Gazrok seems to have narrowed it down to a reasonable time period tho.

Actually, I seem to have posted too hastily, others note betty hill as infact being the first abdutction report, and thats in 1961 or A. Boas in 1958.

I think that in itself is significant. Reports of what are now being called abductions throughout history, but then in modern times not until the '60s, when the idea of aliens is in the popular culture. And then now a very large volume of abduction reports. Does not the epidemeology of the cases seem, significant? There is obviously a sociological element here.

how is it different, its not different at all?

One the one hand, some people are saying 'enoch/ezekial/etc are reported as being taken up by angels/god, when really what happened was they were taken up by aliens, but since they didn't know what aliens and hte like were, it was reported as gods/angels'. Sagan and others say, there is a psychological phenomenon that is something like the abductions/sightings. In a society where there is a focus on god and religion, its religious personalities (like the madonna, or a saint) that appear to people, or god that transports people to heaven. In a less supperstitious society, where there are sci-fi stories about aliens, this basic phenomenon becomes reported as aliens and such.

perhaps their perception of what they were seeing was only difference from today as we are alot more educated, well some of us anyhow.

And how is modern man more educated as to the existence of aliens? If it required knowledge of aliens, and that knowledge has only come from alien sightings, then how could it even start? And you are suggesting that an alien visited these pious people, and they just pretended that it wasn't a gray, but rather the madonna?

Oh yeah are you suggesting the media was in the caves when aborigonees were painting SUACER shaped craft on there walls?

We interpret these things as alien saucers, not them.

or perhaps the media was there in the 14th century when artists pianted suacers in their religous pintings .....
and the 15th and the 16th -18th centuries also.

So now they were infact able to recognize these things as being technological spaceships? But before they weren't?

funny how they all look the same thru time even 10000 years ,still saucer shaped craft huh just another coincedence i guess the media kept that the same too...

A basic shape would look the same throughout time. And, furthermore, they don't allways look the same. Some are disks, some are spheres, others are more bizzare.

the media traveled the world inscribing on rocks , cave walls, ancient sanskrit clay texts,scrolls and implanting somehow firsthand accounts into people

As you've lamented, 'don't put words in my mouth'. I do not claim that the media allways does this. I am claiming that the first sightings of aliens, not religious events or oddities that we now interpret as aliens, coincide with stories in popular press and literature, of aliens. Change the context, and the meanign of these phenomenon changes. For the aborigines, its a dream time happening. For christians in the dark ages, the pyshcological phenomenon is an ecstatic vision. For alien aware america, its abductions. Surely you don't accept every reported abduction as real no?

its eveident you are not educated on many known things and make judgements based on your own speculation and nothing else.

its evident that you are quite uneducated on the matter and don't seem to be able to analyse the situation in anything but a subjective and emotive manner.

the term flying suacer was coined in the late 40's they were called vimmana before.

Case in point. THis is an uneducated and ignorant statement. The vedic texts refer to things that the gods flew around in as vimmana. Outside the vedic context this word is absolutely meanigless. They certainly weren't calling ufo's 'vimmana' in the '30, for example. In fact I am unaware of any reported sightings, even amoung ancient indians, that refer to vimmana, outside of the vedic myth texts.

Just an FYI on the term "flying saucers"...it was coined by a newspaper reporter, based on Kenneth Arnold's sighting in '47 (just days before Roswell btw)... He said they moved like skipping saucers on a lake. Oddly enough, Kenneth didn't see discs, but chevron-shaped craft...

Originally posted by Nygdan

Those were listed by people previous to you, and neither ezikial, enoch nor elijiah said 'i was taken into a faster than light traveling space-ship that was manned by extra-terrestrial beings'.

oh like they had those very words "faster than light traveling space-ship " then ...... and they called aliens GODS ANGELS DEMONS SPIRITS.
and For Your Education , ENOCH DID SAY HE WAS TAKEN IN A CRAFT INTO HEAVEN BY BEINGS NOT LIKE HIMSELF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how is it different, its not different at all?

so you agree with me there is no difference

perhaps their perception of what they were seeing was only difference from today as we are alot more educated, well some of us anyhow.

we wouldnt call it chariot of fire from the gods,
we would give some technical description , well some of us anyway.
others might call them balls of fire.

We interpret these things as alien saucers, not them.

not so, they say they are the gods from the skies

So now they were infact able to recognize these things as being technological spaceships? But before they weren't?

even ezielel said "the wheels were like the works of men" -- meaning machined by mankind......FYI egyptians called them the boats of heaven.

A basic shape would look the same throughout time.

is this the timetraveling media creating suacers , cigar shapes again?
Or are you going to back down from your media created aliens and ufo's theory and agree with me that the shapes of UFOs stayed the same thru all of recorded time.

As you've lamented, 'don't put words in my mouth'. I do not claim that the media allways does this.

AHH yes you did....------>

From what I understand, sightings of 'saucers' don't appear until 'saucers' enter the media, and alien abductions correspond to sci-fi stories about, well, aliens.

accept it your statement is incorrect!
1. saucers were well known and drawn before the media as you know it existed.
2. abductions were recorded well before the media as you know it existed.
hence the media fabricating saucers and aliens theory you pose/imply is as i said ridiculous IMHO and incorrect.
maybe one day youll see "sci fi" is "sci fact" first, not the other way around.

its evident that you are quite uneducated on the matter and don't seem to be able to analyse the situation in anything but a subjective and emotive manner.

truth and facts can corner the skeptics...and its a passionate quest .

from lizzards amok : the term flying suacer was coined in the late 40's they were called vimmana before.

The vedic texts refer to things that the gods flew around in as vimmana

you agree that the vedics called ufos vimmana before we called them suacers , thank you for agreeing with me.....

P.S. if i use the term uneducated it simply means not educated on that subject not meaning in any way that your stupid or cant learn about more it.
for example:
Im uneducated on tax law, thats a fact, its not an insult !
but a reality, one i could easilly change.


[edit on 22-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]

hehe good discussion guys I love it hehe copy & paste copy & paste hehe

No rebutle at all?

I was just getting warmed up,

A search on "ancient astronauts" yields a lot of information.
xfacts.com... has a great range of artworks that support the concept of early abductions.
You might also want to consider running a search that looks at australian aboriginals as well as anicient egyptians.

What makes it more believable to say that Biblical figures interacted with extraterrestrials, and not the divine being they claimed to come into contact with?

Originally posted by lizzardsamok
ENOCH DID SAY HE WAS TAKEN IN A CRAFT INTO HEAVEN BY BEINGS NOT LIKE HIMSELF

That could mean anything. I see no reason to interpret it now as meaning aliens.

so you agree with me there is no difference

? no i had said it was in the paragraph that starts "One the one hand, some people are saying 'enoch/ezekial/etc"

not so, they say they are the gods from the skies

Yes, gods, not aliens from another planet. In their god centered context its all about angels and demons, in modern man, its all about aliens and technology.

even ezielel said "the wheels were like the works of men"

They also talk about human bodies with the neck and head of an ibis. Does this mean that there are ibis people aliens? And an alien space ship isn't a wooden boat or a thing with wheel, its a powered metallic machine. The very fact that they're only calling it by names that they are expierenced with, things from their everyday life, suggests that they were not seeing 'alien spaceships'.

Or are you going to back down from your media created aliens and ufo's theory and agree with me that the shapes of UFOs stayed the same thru all of recorded time.

Why would I back down from the reasonable claim? I didn't say that the media/pop literature made the ships out to be saucers, I noted that the modern abudction stories only start poping up after there have been popular works of aliens and spaceships. As for the 'shapes' being the same, we're talking about aboriginies drawing circles on rocks and the like. These people knew what circles were, why assume that they have to have seen ufos in order to have drawn those drawings?

AHH yes you did

I did not claim that the media was operating in ancient egypt is what i was saying.

accept it your statement is incorrect!
1. saucers were well known and drawn before the media as you know it existed.

They were not drawn. You are talking about circles, not flying saucers. Basically there is this 'abduction-contact-sighting' like phenomenon. When the context is religion, this phenomenon is a religious thing. Instead of flying spaceships its flying things from god. Instead of little grays, it dimunitive virgin marys, and in both the 'message' is the same, usually either vaguely and 'nice' or mundane, and never spectacular, like a solution to some math problem that scientists can't figure out or an equation for a new pharmacological medecine.

abductions were recorded well before the media as you know it existed.

Stories about people seeing god and going up into heaven, yes, I understand that. These stories are only perceived as 'mistaken abduction' reports in the here and now.

truth and facts can corner the skeptics

So you feel that truth is unimportant or harmful here?

from lizzards amok : the term flying suacer was coined in the late 40's they were called vimmana before.

you agree that the vedics called ufos vimmana

No, i do not agree that vedics saw the same sort of ufos as now and called them vimmana and mad up stories about the gods and all that. I simply beleive that they had stories about gods who flew around. I see no reason to state that these were actual mis-reported/misunderstood alien ship sightings. Indeed, are all such reports actually alien sightings? None are just stories about the powerful gods? And if some are just stories about the gods, how does one distinguish between the stories and the mis-reports?

P.S. if i use the term uneducated it simply means not educated on that subject

I only threw it out in a tit for tat manner because you hurled a similar statement at me.

Originally posted by Nygdan
That could mean anything. I see no reason to interpret it now as meaning aliens.

1. god /gods = being(s) not from earth origianly
2. came to earth to do whatever from space or sky
3. always more advanced in vehicles of somekind
4. gods for some reason needed animal sacrifices
5. gods recieved animal sacrifices via a pillar of light that came from a vehicle or cloud

I see many reasons to interpret it that way sorry you cant even see the connection.

Yes, gods, not aliens from another planet. In their god centered context its all about angels and demons, in modern man, its all about aliens and technology.

one mans angel is anothers demon is anothers alien is another mans GOD!
garbage by any other name is still garbage.
alien can be a term meaning many things for instance;
human foriegner
non human foriegner
non human but not foriegner

They also talk about human bodies with the neck and head of an ibis. Does this mean that there are ibis people aliens? And an alien space ship isn't a wooden boat or a thing with wheel, its a powered metallic machine. The very fact that they're only calling it by names that they are expierenced with, things from their everyday life, suggests that they were not seeing 'alien spaceships'.

they were gods to them they didnt have the word alien in their language!
and yes they would call a vehicle by a known vehicle they have.
If the egyptians drew it i accept it looked just like they drew it, they were crazy for detail and accuracy in what they drew.

As for the 'shapes' being the same, we're talking about aboriginies drawing circles on rocks and the like. These people knew what circles were, why assume that they have to have seen ufos in order to have drawn those drawings?

they were more than circles and had other beings from those circles as you call them.

AHH yes you did

you did claim that the media was operating everywhere if you state what you did, my point was that claim is ridiculous as ufo's and other beings and abduction cases have been around long before your precious media!!!!!!! FACT accept it!

They were not drawn. You are talking about circles, not flying saucers. Basically there is this 'abduction-contact-sighting' like phenomenon. When the context is religion, this phenomenon is a religious thing. Instead of flying spaceships its flying things from god.

yes flying AIRCRAFT from skies , not things pal !
and actually they never called them gods as we know them but
---> sky-beings look at bottom!

Stories about people seeing god and going up into heaven, yes, I understand that. These stories are only perceived as 'mistaken abduction' reports in the here and now.

you sir are the only one mistakening facts from history.
if some one is kiddnapped they are kidnaapped same thing no matter who or what it is!

So you feel that truth is unimportant or harmful here?

to your claims media made ufos perhaps .
and where would you interpret unimportant or harmful from this statement.

truth and facts can corner the skeptics

important is truth is what this says and cornering skeptics is harmful to a skeptics pride only.

No, i do not agree that vedics saw the same sort of ufos as now and called them vimmana and mad up stories about the gods and all that. I simply beleive that they had stories about gods who flew around.

oh so other beings flying around in a round craft is nothing simular to a UFO to to you? lol figures.....

uneducated
I only threw it out in a tit for tat manner because you hurled a similar statement at me.

no problem, i mearly wanted to clear up the definition of the word as many thought i was being insultive to you and others using that term, i mearly wanted to educate them on its meaning as they appearently didnt know.
i will not take offence if you call me uneducated on a certain topics, you might be right as i dont know everthing......



[edit on 25-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]

The earilest one was in 1947 by a man flying a plane and I mean normal ones I dont mean them nutty ones in the bible and stuff.

Adam was the first abductee.

Genesis 2:21
"So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh."

Don't know if they took him in a ship or not. But certainly causing a deep sleep to perform an operation would be an abduction.