Donald Trump's 'Angel Family' PR Stunt

a reply to: JBurns

You're spewing brainwashing programming in my face and telling me that I'm brainwashed. Through repetition, you have been conditioned into having a grossly distorted view of the dangerous criminality of (particularly) Central American illegal immigrants and therefore a grossly exaggerated perception of the danger posed by these people.

This has been done through repeated conflation of MS-13/violent and criminals with people originating from Central America who cross the border illegally, overstay visa and really, to a somewhat varying degree, legitimate asylum seeking refugees. This is done constantly, at every opportunity, to strengthen this association in your mind to the point that you view these people as somehow posing a greater threat than other groups.

For example, this was tweeted out by Mike Huckabee this morning:



You probably see that picture and think something along the lines of, "damn straight!" I'm guessing? Nobody is advocating for MS-13 or any other violent/dangerous criminal. As I've posted elsewhere, by the FBI estimate that is often cited by the administration, there are as many as 10,000 MS-13 affiliated persons in the United States. Keep in mind that this is all manners of affiliation, not necessarily gang membership itself. Furthermore, there's no effort to distinguish between citizens, native born or otherwise, and non-citizen (legally present or otherwise).

DHS estimates that there are about 11.4 million people in the country illegally. If we, for the sake of argument, assume that all 10,000 are both the worst of the "bad hombres" and are ALL in the country illegally, then we're still talking about 0.08% or less than one-tenth of one-percent. 99.92% having absolutely no affiliation to MS-13 even if we accept the estimate and assume that all MS-13 affiliates are illegal immigrants.

Can you honestly not see the manipulation? I'm sure if I brought out stats about unarmed black people dying in interactions with law enforcement or in their custody, you would look at the public reaction, media coverage and political rhetoric and IMMEDIATELY conclude that something was amiss and cry foul. In fact, you would say that people were being manipulated.

Would I then in turn accuse you of advocating for the murder of unarmed black people as a prominent right-winger like Mr. Huckabee might accuse a person like me of advocating for MS-13?

a reply to: theantediluvian

Huckabee is right however.

Prancy NOLOsi was defending MS13 all the way a few weeks ago.

😎⚖

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: JBurns



DHS estimates that there are about 11.4 million people in the country illegally. If we, for the sake of argument, assume that all 10,000 are both the worst of the "bad hombres" and are ALL in the country illegally, then we're still talking about 0.08% or less than one-tenth of one-percent. 99.92% having absolutely no affiliation to MS-13 even if we accept the estimate and assume that all MS-13 affiliates are illegal immigrants.

If you think there's only 10,000 "bad hombres" out of 11.4 million illegals you're seriously delusional. Go hang out on the streets of East La for a few nights and then tell us what you think. That is if you make it out alive.

a reply to: mtnshredder

Lol isn't east l.a. going the way of the hipster nowadays?

originally posted by: conspiracy nut
a reply to: mtnshredder

Lol isn't east l.a. going the way of the hipster nowadays?

MMMMM.....No. I would hardly call Los Feliz and Silverlake a good representation of all things East LA.

a reply to: theantediluvian

>Be a democrat
>Write and pass laws requiring separation (see flores)
>Have your president disregard laws written by democrats until term is over
>President of opposing party starts enforcing your laws
>Feign outrage and make it all about the children
>Blame the president for your laws consequences
>Be even more mad that the president points out even more harm caused by your president having not enforced your laws

This is the day in the life of the democrat. Write the rules, but don't play by them. Then blame the guy who does as being cruel.

a reply to: theantediluvian

92% of the MS13 related arrests over a 10 year period were illegal immigrants. LINK

Also, you're pretending that MS-13 is the only gang made up of illegal immigrants. There's 18th street and Surenos-13, just to name a couple of the bigger ones. Then there are local gangs, plus lots of illegal immigrant crime (violent and non-violent).

You're also obfuscating the fact that the majority of those 11 million here illegally aren't illegal border crossers, they are visa over-stayer's. The gang members are much more likely to not be people who overstayed a visa but rather, they're people who hop the border fence and run.

Of course, you know all that, right? I mean, you're not brainwashed....

originally posted by: theantediluvian

The issue I take is with the exploitation of these stricken families in what is nothing but a brazen stunt by a shameless demagogue bent on demonizing and dehumanizing illegal border crossers to promote fear and hatred and as a justification for appalling treatment given to people who are mostly desperate folks, risking life, limb and freedom to escape conditions many of us would flee if we had this misfortune to find ourselves in similarly dire straits.

Mexico's economy is worse than the USA, but it's not terrible to the point of being impossible to have a happy life there.

You make it sound like they're fleeing the apocalypse.

They're not coming to steal our jobs. If you think that's an actual thing, you're an idiot who doesn't grasp economic fundamentals. They're not mooches who are coming to steal the food from our children's mouths. How many of us have seen these people working their asses off for # wages? How many are exploited by ruthless, amoral employers who violate our laws not in pursuit of freedom, safety and opportunity, not to give their children a better future, but to maximize profits by exploiting vulnerable people whose immigration status makes them incapable of demanding better.

It's pretty uncommon to get genuinely exploited once they reach the USA, because if they don't like the job they have they would simply move to another region with better jobs.

Understand: Any group of human beings larger than a handful will undoubtedly contain dangerous criminals whose actions will harm others. It's inescapable. Whether those people are white, black, Hispanic, native-born or not, rich or poor, educated or not, raised to believe in whatever religion or none at all — in whatever demographic group you want to split people into — there will be a certain percentage of people who will do harm to others.

The problem isn't that these immigrants themselves are criminals.

It's that they are cowards, who are easily exploited by the criminals from their homeland, to give them shelter from our own police force.

The Mexican cartels are dangerous, and they operate freely among non-english speaking communities.

MKUltra or MS-13? I'm getting my cuts all mixed up here.

Trump is disagreeing with members of his own party on hiring more immigration judges.

Trump really does not want to give unauthorized immigrants seeking asylum due process

Families are being offered an impossibly cruel choice: fight to stay in the US apart, or give up and get sent back together.

Trump will reunite separated families — but only if they agree to deportation

Nice Dick Cheney move right there. Gotta give him some creds when it's due.



A little toast to the no ones.

Got kush for the pain 'cause the world is dangerous
Driven great men insane, anchor themselves with angel dust
Somewhere between love and lust, a nut get bust and a baby get made
It seems that trouble trouble us and follow us like all our days
In every holy book it says we suffer, that's what it is
So riddle me this; from the womb to the tomb, why do we fight to live?

originally posted by: PublicOpinion

Nice Dick Cheney move right there. Gotta give him some creds when it's due.

So we have this problem you see... Under Obama the border lawyers figured out that if you bring kids and you are caught you get the free pass to stay in the US under the catch and release policy he had. The problem is all these people are screaming asylum status as they now bring their kids with them too. The facts are that about 3% actually meet asylum status out of all that request it, and over 85% of the catch and release never come to their hearing and just disappear.

Trump said this will not do so he established zero tolerance and so adults are processed and detained. Since before Trump did his EO the kids would be first given to relatives in the US if there were some, and if not then we need to do something with them, right? Hence the detainment centers for them too since you typically could not house whole families in detainment, well not you can with his EO.

Still a scramble to create something that never has been.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Coming from someone who lives in a border state, i have to wonder why opinions like this from people not on border states really have any relevance.

Its not your family being murdered. Its not your lawnmower coming up missing. Its not your car hit and disabled by an uninsured driver.

As a border state citizen, I continue to demand that the Federal Government do its damned job and protect our borders.

a reply to: Dfairlite

The same thing happened with the Israeli Embassy. Clinton passes a law, everyone ignores it...Trump doesn't and its him who is the asshole.

he didn't pass the law. And I'd honestly rather see rule of law returned to government. If a law sucks, then do something about it. But you can't be like the DNC in the recent vote on the border issue and vote all 190 votes against it.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Under Obama

That's where you've lost me, literally.

You're still in the wrong timeline but it aint the alternative universe anymore. It's a start, whatever that means.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Xtrozero

Under Obama

That's where you've lost me, literally.

You're still in the wrong timeline but it aint the alternative universe anymore. It's a start, whatever that means.

If you read....

The first paragraph was a short history lesson, the second was what Trump inherited and is trying to fix.

Did you actually read a word past "under Obama"? lol geez You are talking about the first sentence that explained how this all stared and the rest of the whole post is about today....

a reply to: Xtrozero

Did you actually read a word past "under Obama"

Of course not. Chew on your own whataboutisms, who on Ceres cares?

trying to fix.

...himself? That's pretty clever in a transhumanist way. Impressive.
Just give him what Hitler had and he'll be fine?

a reply to: Dfairlite

Over a 10-year period (2005-2014) ICE arrested approximately 4,000 MS-13 members, leaders, and associates. This represents about 13 percent of all gang members they arrested nationwide (31,000) during that period.

92 percent of the MS-13 affiliated aliens arrested were illegal aliens. Of those, 16 percent had entered illegally at least twice.

92 percent of MS-13 affiliated people arrested...by ICE.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I live in NJ. Top 10 states by illegal immigrant population (well 11 with the tie at 10 — 2014 estimate, Pew source):

California -2,350,000
Texas - 1,650,000
Florida - 850,000
New York - 775,000
New Jersey - 500,000
Illinois - 450,000
North Carolina - 350,000
Arizona - 325,000
Virginia - 300,000
Maryland - 250,000
Washington - 250,000

We have a third the illegal immigrant population of Texas and also a third the over all population. As a share of the population, it's about the same. (We're 4th over all: Nevada - 7.2%, Texas - 6.1%, California - 6.0%, New Jersey - 5.4%)

I get the sentiment (sure are a lot foreign Trumpkins on ATS) and granted, we don't have the border and the specific issues that come from that (cartel activity for instance) but you're off base thinking that people who don't live in border states shouldn't have opinions about illegal immigration.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I don't believe you shouldn't have an opinion. I believe that your opinion should be weighed against the people who actually have to deal with it day to day. Car theft, uninsured accidents, thefts, etc...there is a large amount of day to day nonsense that is dealt with, in addition to the cartel related nonsense.

Even our prisons are infiltrated with cartel related gang activity. Texas Syndicate is one well known group related to Los Zetas.

www.mysanantonio.com...

originally posted by: PublicOpinion

Families are being offered an impossibly cruel choice: fight to stay in the US apart, or give up and get sent back together.

Trump will reunite separated families — but only if they agree to deportation

Nice Dick Cheney move right there. Gotta give him some creds when it's due.

Wait..... so you're saying they aren't being forced to give up their kids. Just forced to leave?

But if they refuse to leave they get detained, and of course when you're in prison you can't see your kids. I mean, because that's kind of how prisons work, right?

It looks like you're telling a lot of half-truths here.

How should we give illegal immigrants due process, if not by detaining them for trial?

They're a pretty big flight risk. Should we use home detainment with ankle trackers?

Should we construct custom, family sized prisons where their family can stay with them, but they aren't able to flee to another state?