'Are you the mother?' A woman's search for baby taken by U.S. immigration

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Boadicea

Just because someone does something wrong doesn't absolve us of the need to do the right thing.

Yes! Thank you!!!

By the time my kids started kindergarten they knew better than to use the "Well Johnny did it first!" excuse on me...and I'm not only one... hence the universal parental comeback of "And if Johnny jumped off a cliff would you do it too?"

I feel like someone punched me in the gut. I'm shocked that grown arse adults would think they can get away with that excuse. Especially when it comes to children being abused. I really can't believe this crap.

a reply to: Sillyolme

There not really turned away they are told to return the next day. At ports of entry they only take in what can be processed that day. Think of it like the DMV. You go there take your numbers and hope they get to you before they close. If they dont you will be back there the next day to do it again.

When they say people are turned away that is just to cause an emotional response which seems to have worked well on you

a reply to: Boadicea

How am I all over the place? All I've done is suggest that quite a bit of the abuse seems to have happened on the fathers watch. I'm also suggesting our border patrol and DHS are overloaded and and under resourced to properly deal with this situation, which always inevitably leads to abuse, see our foster system for reference. I'm also suggesting if we dont currently or haven't had the ability to care of our own how does this compounding issue help?

I jumped to no conclusions about your position but it seems you did mine.

originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: Boadicea

How am I all over the place? All I've done is suggest that quite a bit of the abuse seems to have happened on the fathers watch. I'm also suggesting our border patrol and DHS are overloaded and and under resourced to properly deal with this situation, which always inevitably leads to abuse, see our foster system for reference. I'm also suggesting if we dont currently or haven't had the ability to care of our own how does this compounding issue help?

I jumped to no conclusions about your position but it seems you did mine.

I have stuck to one point... the same point I made when YOU posted to ME: There is absolutely no excuse for these children to be abused in any way on our watch after we take custody of those children... and that includes trying to excuse our bad behavior and abuse by pointing to the parents and saying "they did it first."

You have refused to address that one point, but rather have been all over the place bringing up all kinds of things in an effort to excuse the abuse of children on our watch.... including the "They did it first" excuse. And I am and will continue saying that there is absolutely no excuse for these children to be abused in any way on our watch after we take custody of these children.

That's how.

If you people want to end asylum then just say so.


Stop with the nonsensical retorts that drag down our laws and constitution.


You are making us look bad by defending dumb # the gov. does.

Focus your energy on the worst of the worst if you want them removed and do not lump them in with people looking for a better life.

You all let your hate guide your efforts for change and the hate is what stands in your way of proper change.

Do you peeps even remember the show what about bob?

I really am happy things are coming into the light Trump says he would drain the swamp and the system ment to protect children from harm is the deepest darkest most snake infested swamp of all .

I am 52 You know why I say this ? because I was dumped into that swamp as a 10 month old child and lived in it for 11 years .
Yes my own mother dumped me into the swamp and once in it the snakes closed in .
Beat- drugged- molested I am a survivor from a place VERY VERY few ever get out of .
Most are now dead the younger ones then me drugged out jailed or just a lost soul wondering the country with no hope no home no family .

Now this was my youth and I was what is jokingly called checked on I cant begin to immange the horror UNDOCUMENTED kids go through . No ones even KNOWS they are alive NO ones even Pretends to check if they are ok .
The real truth is a Monster as many are killed or just left to die O but the rooms are very clean and the place sure looks good for visiting First ladys . Once she leaves and the lights go out the monsters come out and they are not immangairy .

Your know that humans are not evil or good its just the nature of the beast and a beast will devour any who come to close and have no way to fight back .
The times we look at the beast we turn away its just to horrifying to know the beast is US .
Pick a country pick a place take two people and wate sooner or later the beats will come out .

The bible 5 people Adam Eve seith cain able one killed another . And that scene is played out over and over every day

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Boadicea

Just because someone does something wrong doesn't absolve us of the need to do the right thing.

Yes! Thank you!!!

By the time my kids started kindergarten they knew better than to use the "Well Johnny did it first!" excuse on me...and I'm not only one... hence the universal parental comeback of "And if Johnny jumped off a cliff would you do it too?"

I feel like someone punched me in the gut. I'm shocked that grown arse adults would think they can get away with that excuse. Especially when it comes to children being abused. I really can't believe this crap.

Me neither, Bo.

My greatest shock still is that adults are acting like this on these boards I've learned to love for years. Just goes to show how small and detached this community is even though we like to frequent it every day. It is out of touch with everything people are going through, emotionally, heck, existentially, outside of this IP address -- world-wide.

Someone commented that this will be forgotten when it's over... I doubt that, I really doubt that. I can see how some would hope so, but things like this are not forgotten, no matter how much some may hope for it. It will be in the news for years, and it will be in the books for decades. And it will be in the psyche for lifetimes. Shame doesn't wash away that easily.

We work so hard to be a great country, we work for centuries on human rights, on upholding every part of our constitution and then our legacy will become this?! it's effing disheartening. And it's effing infuriating we're letting it get this far.

*shakes head*

originally posted by: Kharron
a reply to: Ameilia

And who should the blame be placed on?

The parent or parents who display such jaw droppingly stupid and selfish choices as to illegally cross the US border with their minor children in tow... same as one would blame a parent of an American who decided to rob a store with their child in the car as that child was taken into protective custody by the state until a legal guardian or adult relative was found to take responsibility for the minor.

There is no "heart wrenching" or "dark times" here, only dumbasses who are willing to risk their own children to cross the border and a bunch of damn lecherous ambulance chasers who are using tales of sorrow and woe to score political points.

The law is the law. Break it with your kids in tow and YOU are still the one responsible for what happens next.

a reply to: Kharron

...things like this are not forgotten, no matter how much some may hope for it. It will be in the news for years, and it will be in the books for decades. And it will be in the psyche for lifetimes. Shame doesn't wash away that easily.

We work so hard to be a great country, we work for centuries on human rights, on upholding every part of our constitution and then our legacy will become this?! it's effing disheartening. And it's effing infuriating we're letting it get this far.

*shakes head*

I'm right there with you. The more I read and the more I know and understand about this situation, the more horrified I am. And the "kids in cages" and "ripped from their mother's arms" isn't even close to the worst of it. I'm just sick over it all. How the hell have we allowed this to happen?

originally posted by: Boadicea
How the hell have we allowed this to happen?

Because your shepherds haven't told you to be outraged about it until it could be used to push a political agenda.

The way it feels lately is the left and the MSM sit in a room with a bingo cage wheel full of problems that have been around for decades. They pull out one a month and blame it on Trump, offer zero solutions and then act like they are saving the world through virtue signaling because they are upset all of a sudden.

a reply to: Boadicea

I never suggested you differed from your point, and you saying that I'm claiming the parents did it first means it's okay is way out of context to the point I was making. I question whether I believe a parent that would put their kid through this is being truthful.

However, even if its true I can see where the logistics would make it nearly impossible for it not to be the case in some circumstances. Everything I have said has been fairly concurrent.

If you had a daycare setup and were resourced to handle 10 kids a day, if one week 50 kids more show up per day I doubt you could insure no child negligence.

I know there are plenty of terrible people that get their rocks off on abusing those that cant fend for themselves, however I just cant agree that all the people that are tending to these children are in it for that reason. In others words I dont believe negligence is the intent, it just happens to be an effect of being over inundated.

How do you see us fixing this issue?

originally posted by: SgtHamsandwich

Because your shepherds haven't told you to be outraged about it until it could be used to push a political agenda.

Good point... but not exactly shepherds. Maybe more like Gatekeepers. To truth and information and knowledge. When and how did we convince that anything less than the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth was acceptable from our government critters???

The current faux outrage may be worse than pushing a political agenda. Given the child abuse lawsuits filed recently against detention centers, perhaps not intentionally, but this faux outrage is serving to distract and deflect from the greater abuses happening on our watch -- physical violence, sexual assaults, involuntary drugging, kids getting lost, and worse kids being released to human traffickers for labor and/or prostitution purposes... just how systemic and institutionalized is this child abuse???

The way it feels lately is the left and the MSM sit in a room with a bingo cage wheel full of problems that have been around for decades. They pull out one a month and blame it on Trump, offer zero solutions and then act like they are saving the world through virtue signaling because they are upset all of a sudden.

Problems they often exacerbated with their "solutions" -- if not created altogether with their "solutions"! And yes, these days everything is Trump's fault.

But I do think the current manufactured "crisis" is at least in part to protect those guilty of far worse. Going all the way to the top: Obama.

a reply to: Boadicea


Exactly, anybody else notice how much time CNN and MSNBC spent on the First Lady's jacket while evidence started to come out while they were bribing FBI agents for leaky information.


Odd that everyone who could make a change on this "crisis" over the years didn't really care until now. Now that it's a convenient political shield to hide behind, those same people that could have done something to fix this are now outraged.

***Back to the OP***

You want me to feel bad about the kids being abused by their parents, sure it's a pathetic shame that people use their kids this way. Let's look at this the other way though, how many of these kids get sold in to sex trafficking after their "parents" get into this country, and have secured temporary citizenship? So the thousands of kids that get saved from sex trafficking are basically pointless since a few parents that can't prove a kid is theirs or not, get's separated.

I'm sure you're going to counter that with some nonsense about how I don't have a heart or something, but before you do let me tell you a little story;
Three or four times a years we get a group of "migrants" that come through town and commit crimes. One of the favorite crimes is car burgling. They do this is the daytime after people get off of work, and hit the grocery stores. They have a little kid (usually a girl) patting on a window crying that their toy is trapped in there. Then another person will come up and try to help the kid, but they accidently break the window, or some other way of gaining access to the inside of the car. After the crowd that was watching the kid cry leaves, they then strip the inside of anything they can sell quickly.

It's a whole production to get people to care then not care. They do it so often when they are in town that they have their own little police force designed to response to them when they are in town. They use their kids as tools in the act of committing a crime. At first it was mostly Armenians, but after the response force was set up, they started to notice that it was mostly people from Central America. They were just following around the Armenian Gypsies, and committing crime while they camped out. So it's to bad for the kids that get brought up into this mess, but I don't feel bad for the parents dragging their kids across the dessert knowing full well that illegally crossing the boarder could result in their kids being taken from them.

originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: Boadicea

I never suggested you differed from your point...

Nope, you didn't. I said you never addressed my point. And you still haven't.

...and you saying that I'm claiming the parents did it first means it's okay is way out of context to the point I was making...

Again, I said you never addressed the point... and you certainly never said otherwise... as in a resounding, "No! No matter what the parents did or did not do, it's not okay for anyone to abuse that child any time for any reason, and especially not on our watch while in our custody!!!"

I question whether I believe a parent that would put their kid through this is being truthful

Whatever the parent did or did not do, it has nothing to do with others did or did not do. Every claim must be investigated and judged on its own merits. Because -- surprise! -- kids of liars are abused too. And the lies of the parents don't make it okay to abuse their kids.

However, even if its true I can see where the logistics would make it nearly impossible for it not to be the case in some circumstances.

Of course. We know it happens and therefore every precaution must be taken.

I know there are plenty of terrible people that get their rocks off on abusing those that cant fend for themselves, however I just cant agree that all the people that are tending to these children are in it for that reason.

Of course not.

How do you see us fixing this issue?

That's a thread of its own! And I'm not exactly an expert on all the whys and wherefores, but greater transparency is a good place to start...

a reply to: Boadicea

Your one point that no kid should be ever be abused? Of course I agree to that what sadistic bastard wouldn't? I don't believe any living creature should be abused, but then I have to re-enter the world and the reality of this current situation.

I told you that I have a hard time believing someone that would do that and I know how people tend use a situation for peronal leverage, and gave examples of why that I do believe it is very possible.

If with my outrage I'm not willing to tell the government to use every expense and resource to ensure this doesn't happen it serves no purpose. I'm personally not willing to that with the many ailments we currently have as a Nation that need to be tended to.

For some reason people are willing to commit their children to such atrocities for the potential of a better life in a country we all get told how horrible is every day.

We either have to fix the problems in their country or find a way to make it not worth it, without breaking ourselves in the process.

Verification with the barriers I mentioned takes time there are only so many people and so much space to house people in the mean time. Do you not think the daycare analogy I used applied to this situation? I dont see a way they could have possibly been ready for the recent influx.

a reply to: TheLead

If with my outrage I'm not willing to tell the government to use every expense and resource to ensure this doesn't happen it serves no purpose.

If we're not willing to demand the government use every expense and resource to make damn sure that kids in our custody involuntarily are not abused on our watch by those we make their masters, then we shouldn't be taking them into custody at all. Either we protect them or we let them go and at least give them a fighting chance.

Any less is no better than the human smugglers.

a reply to: Boadicea

So your either for putting these kids above our own or open boaders? If not we are effectively human smugglers? I'm sorry maybe you dont mean it like that, but that doesn't sound reasonable at all.

originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: Boadicea

So your either for putting these kids above our own or open boaders?

Nope. Not an either/or situation. I expect and demand that we protect our own kids too. And I certainly do not want open borders. Perhaps because I said "...or let them go"? To be specific, I meant let them go on the other side of the border they crossed... or fly them back to where they originally came from...

If not we are effectively human smugglers? I'm sorry maybe you dont mean it like that, but that doesn't sound reasonable at all.

If we involuntarily detain them and we will not take every reasonable precaution to protect them from their "protectors," then yes, we are no better than human smugglers... and if we are transporting and relocating these kids into the custody of others and will not take every reasonable precaution to protect them from their "protectors," then YES, we are ALSO effectively human smugglers.

What isn't reasonable is to literally and figuratively take custody of children and absolute control of their lives and then let them be criminally abused. Absolutely nothing reasonable about that.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: notsure1

MURDER MURDER MURDER RAPE RAPE RAPE MS-13 MS-13 MS-13

Hide your kids! Build the wall! The invading horde wants to kill your children and rape your women!

Meanwhile, over in another thread, "ERMAGHERD, the Left is sooooooo dehumanizing!" *clutch pearls*

Um, people are being raped and terrorised and their kids are being sold drugs Right Now, at the hands of street gangs, one of the biggest and most dangerous of which is MS13, they are GLOBAL.

Our daughters are being raped, Right Now, And you make jokes. How nice.

No, you are right, it is somehow Rude of us to assume that bad people would Ever take advantage of a porous border. I was thinking maybe that is a little naive, but, no, your way is much smarter!

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: TheLead

If with my outrage I'm not willing to tell the government to use every expense and resource to ensure this doesn't happen it serves no purpose.

If we're not willing to demand the government use every expense and resource to make damn sure that kids in our custody involuntarily are not abused on our watch by those we make their masters, then we shouldn't be taking them into custody at all. Either we protect them or we let them go and at least give them a fighting chance.

Any less is no better than the human smugglers.

I don't think you understand...these people come to border patrol WANTING to be detained. They need a good couple months rest, food and water, medical care etc after their trek through the desert.

Why do you think this was never an issue until now? Nobody made an uproar because everyone was happy, until someone had a great idea to make this a big issue to smear Trump.