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Not another imigration thread!!!!

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posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Annee

www.uscis.gov...

that is how you seek asylum to the US. If you can find the part in there stating "sneak across the border", I'd like to see it.

As far as it being an international issue, I'd agree. But for discussion purposes, this is about the recent uproar from the left over Trump being a horrible person. (it was in the news)

International peacekeeping forces? You mean like the UN? I think they already exist. (like the UN)
Why do we have to be the worlds police force? Don't we have some issues here that need fixing?

And for my solution, please read the OP. It's in there, just like Prego.


Aren't you and I not talking about the current situation of LEGAL asylum seekers who's children are being ripped away from them?

I also will never blame children for what their parents did.

My ex married a woman from Mexico. I know exactly what he had to go through to legally bring her and her children here and what it cost him.

But, neither he or her were desperate.

I don't know what I would do if I was desperate. I honestly, don't think you know what you would do either. But, I do believe you would fight for yourself.


You seem to be talking about those entering on unicorns. I was speaking of those who were caught crossing the border illegally. As I showed you, there is a process for seeking asylum to the US. And I may be wrong, but I don't believe they come and arrest you, then separate your family for filling out the forms. If you find out that our system goes to foreign countries and kidnaps families then splits them and detains them, you let me know.


Unicorns? Where is your mind?

Did you mention illegals in your OP? I must have missed that.

I'm focusing on what is current. The recent legal asylum seekers who's children are being ripped from them (And yes I do know what the current law says. Which I believe was meant for unaccompanied minors and is now being misused -- because it can).

Global: this is happening globally. Why should it not be addressed as a global issue?

We are a tiny rock in a vast universe. Tribalism is antiquated. It's beyond time to progress beyond that mindset.

EDIT: you did mention in OP "criminals who cross illegally".

But, I chose to be specific in my posts in regards to Legal Asylum seekers.

Is that ALL illegal crossers? Have you actually looked at the entire border of the United States? We have both a northern & southern border. Heard any talks lately of a wall across our northern border? Take a look at our east & west border of vast ocean coastlines. Do those concern you? Or are you just worried about the Mexican border?

-------------------------------------

Decent thread ND

But, as you probably know, I keep my posts very short. It's rare for me to engage in lengthy debate.

Real Life calls. I'll check back later.

edit on 21-6-2018 by Annee because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: howtonhawky



cali would let them in but then we could just make em stay in cali unless they are properly nautralized


How would you go about making them stay in Cali? Wouldn’t we be essentially moving the national border to Cali’s eastern side? That’s pointless.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: howtonhawky



cali would let them in but then we could just make em stay in cali unless they are properly nautralized


How would you go about making them stay in Cali? Wouldn’t we be essentially moving the national border to Cali’s eastern side? That’s pointless.


easy peasy

tell em to stay there

if they do not then bus them back to a port of entry and if they are caught a second time then prosecute them

we already have the police to get this done

no papers then no stay

states rights bro

do not let fear stop you from believing in the constitution

if you were an undocumented immigrant and could stay in cali and not be harassed then would you go somewhere where they will lock you up in a hurry?

perhaps once but then the point will have been made

you see currently the feds have our hands tied but if power givin to the states then the whole mentality would change

do not over think it

it is just like owning a piece of land and not letting people take it over



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 02:25 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Muninn
a reply to: Annee




Do you honestly believe these refugees (worldwide) would choose their current conditions if their own area of origin was safe to live in?


Instead of running from their problems maybe they should stay and fight for what they believe in.


Like those in Chicago did with the Mafia?

You know, with crooked politicians, cops on the Mafia payroll, etc.

Who do you think is gonna win?


Shall we go take care of the problems in all the rest of the worlds countries that are even worse off than Mexico? Sierra Leon, Sudan, Zimbabwe,North Korea...?

Why don’t we just send them all plane tickets to run from their war torn/poor countries and come here?

When are you people going to get it through your thick skull that letting in all these illegals is severely bringing down the pay scales of many sectors of the labor market in the United States? Do you know what that means?

It means that a carpenter, a plumber, a cabinet maker, a painter, a roofer, an electrician that used to make money well into the middle and upper middle class now makes poverty wages. And that’s whats happening right now and it’s messed up.

So, here is my solution.

FIRST, lock the border down tighter than a horses ass in fly season. That is first and foremost, very important.

Then give all the illegal immigrants that haven’t committed any felonies or violent crimes a path to citizenship.

Continue to allow a VERY TIGHTLY CONTROLLED slow trickle of LEGAL immigration come into the country. Our economy will absorb those that are here and now have a path to citizenship and slowly the pay rates will rise again and the people in this country that do actual labor work for a living can make a decent wage enough to comfortably support a family and buy a house and a car and live the American dream. We want to live the American dream not the Zimbabwe dream or the North Korean dream or the Mexican dream, the American dream.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 02:34 PM
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originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: howtonhawky



cali would let them in but then we could just make em stay in cali unless they are properly nautralized


How would you go about making them stay in Cali? Wouldn’t we be essentially moving the national border to Cali’s eastern side? That’s pointless.


easy peasy

tell em to stay there

if they do not then bus them back to a port of entry and if they are caught a second time then prosecute them

we already have the police to get this done

no papers then no stay

states rights bro

do not let fear stop you from believing in the constitution

if you were an undocumented immigrant and could stay in cali and not be harassed then would you go somewhere where they will lock you up in a hurry?

perhaps once but then the point will have been made

you see currently the feds have our hands tied but if power givin to the states then the whole mentality would change

do not over think it

it is just like owning a piece of land and not letting people take it over


I have a problem with this. Read my post above. What about the people that are there already LEGALLY that are competing with these illegals in the job market? Now the legals have to work for much much lower wages all because the illegals are working for far less and now they can’t even get rid of the illegals because of your new policies. That system could possibly spread slowly across the country like a cancer. It’s already bad enough in many areas jeez, I could see legal citizens fleeing to Citizen sanctuary states. It would be a disaster.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: Alien Abduct

those people you speak of will have to become involved more with their state government in order to create the state they collectively choose to have.

the system works if we give it a chance instead of choosing fear choose states rights



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: Alien Abduct

those people you speak of will have to become involved more with their state government in order to create the state they collectively choose to have.

the system works if we give it a chance instead of choosing fear choose states rights


So are you saying it is current policy that border states (national border obviously) cannot police their own borders? They have to leave it up to the feds who are obviously not doing their job?



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Annee

www.uscis.gov...

that is how you seek asylum to the US. If you can find the part in there stating "sneak across the border", I'd like to see it.

As far as it being an international issue, I'd agree. But for discussion purposes, this is about the recent uproar from the left over Trump being a horrible person. (it was in the news)

International peacekeeping forces? You mean like the UN? I think they already exist. (like the UN)
Why do we have to be the worlds police force? Don't we have some issues here that need fixing?

And for my solution, please read the OP. It's in there, just like Prego.


Aren't you and I not talking about the current situation of LEGAL asylum seekers who's children are being ripped away from them?

I also will never blame children for what their parents did.

My ex married a woman from Mexico. I know exactly what he had to go through to legally bring her and her children here and what it cost him.

But, neither he or her were desperate.

I don't know what I would do if I was desperate. I honestly, don't think you know what you would do either. But, I do believe you would fight for yourself.


Seeking asylum is not illegal and it wouldn’t put the parents at risk of getting arrested thus not putting the children at risk of being parent-less.

Further, parents with children or anyone for that matter do not have to risk their lives by crossing deadly terrain/rape/murder if they only wish to seek asylum. This is because if they wanted to seek asylum all they have to do is drive/get a ride/hitchhike ON THE ROAD to the border port of entry and seek asylum at that point and have no fear of being arrested and having their children separated from them.

Those parents putting their children at risk by going through the deadly way (risking the environment/rape/murder/enslavement) have no intentions in seeking asylum because they seek to enter the country illegally.

Once they cross the border illegally they have broken the law and therefore are subject the the United States justice system. They can at that point apply for asylum. However while they are in custody someone has to be responsible for their children.

But why risk their lives and more importantly the lives and welfare of their children by traversing treacherous terrain, risking rape, murder, enslavement and such when they can simply go to a point of entry and apply for asylum there without fear of being arrested for attempting to cross the border illegally?

So now I hope you understand the difference between someone trying to gain entry into the United States illegally and risking being jailed and risking their children being separated from them, risking their lives and their welfare all because they want to sneak into the country without being caught. These people don’t want to seek asylum because they don’t want to go through the process, they know they will likely be denied, they want to go into the country undetected. Otherwise they could do like I said before. They can go to the port of entry and apply for asylum there.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: Alien Abduct

Of course I understand the difference between legal asylum and illegal entry.

Have you ever experienced life so dangerous that you would take this treacherous journey with your young children?

And as I said, this is a global occurring issue.

I am not going to ignore how globally widespread this issue is -- just because of where my own feet touch the ground.

As previously said, most migrations from dangerous areas is coming from the south to the north. Stopping them at the borders does not address the heart of the problem.

A war is being brought to us (northern borders). A wall will not address the deeper issues. If those issues are not directly addressed there will be no resolution.


edit on 21-6-2018 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 03:16 PM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: Alien Abduct

those people you speak of will have to become involved more with their state government in order to create the state they collectively choose to have.

the system works if we give it a chance instead of choosing fear choose states rights


So are you saying it is current policy that border states (national border obviously) cannot police their own borders? They have to leave it up to the feds who are obviously not doing their job?


If you really wonder what i am saying how about reread the post where i stated immigration is a function of the state...Instead you go to what if's and so your saying...

I am not trying to be a dickish

If we do not get back to constitutionality we will loose the country.

In order for a nwotakeover they have to find weak points where we evaded the wording in the foundation.

Our only chance now is to get back to the basics.

Following the foundation will allow us to have an immigration system that is localized. On a local level these issues are dealt with more easily.

It would allow states to decide what the feds can ban and mandate to us.

The biggest hurdle will be finances. The fed will put pressure on states to follow their play in favor of more money. Similar to how drug dealers operate and manipulate people.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 03:40 PM
link   

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: Alien Abduct

those people you speak of will have to become involved more with their state government in order to create the state they collectively choose to have.

the system works if we give it a chance instead of choosing fear choose states rights


So are you saying it is current policy that border states (national border obviously) cannot police their own borders? They have to leave it up to the feds who are obviously not doing their job?


If you really wonder what i am saying how about reread the post where i stated immigration is a function of the state...Instead you go to what if's and so your saying...

I am not trying to be a dickish

If we do not get back to constitutionality we will loose the country.

In order for a nwotakeover they have to find weak points where we evaded the wording in the foundation.

Our only chance now is to get back to the basics.

Following the foundation will allow us to have an immigration system that is localized. On a local level these issues are dealt with more easily.

It would allow states to decide what the feds can ban and mandate to us.

The biggest hurdle will be finances. The fed will put pressure on states to follow their play in favor of more money. Similar to how drug dealers operate and manipulate people.


I read what you said and I understand what you are saying quite well but there was a tidbit in there that I wanted you to clarify, hence the question.

I guess I’ll reword the question for you, perhaps you are having trouble with your reading comprehension.. not trying to be dickish or anything.

So are you saying that border states (national border obviously) are not allowed to police their own borders as per federal regulation?

This is a genuine question. Because you are complaining that it should be left to the states as per the constitution right? You are saying that we should get back to the basics and fall back on our foundation which is the constitution right? So therefore I asked if there was something (like perhaps the federal government) stopping the states from securing the border.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:29 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Alien Abduct

Of course I understand the difference between legal asylum and illegal entry.

Have you ever experienced life so dangerous that you would take this treacherous journey with your young children?

And as I said, this is a global occurring issue.

I am not going to ignore how globally widespread this issue is -- just because of where my own feet touch the ground.

As previously said, most migrations from dangerous areas is coming from the south to the north. Stopping them at the borders does not address the heart of the problem.

A war is being brought to us (northern borders). A wall will not address the deeper issues. If those issues are not directly addressed there will be no resolution.



Shall we go take care of the problems in all the rest of the worlds countries too that are even worse off than Mexico? Sierra Leon, Sudan, Zimbabwe,North Korea...?

Why don’t we just send them all plane tickets to run from their war torn/poor countries and come here?

When are you people going to get it through your thick skull that letting in all these illegals is severely bringing down the pay scales of many sectors of the labor market in the United States? Do you know what that means?

It means that a carpenter, a plumber, a cabinet maker, a painter, a roofer, an electrician that used to make money well into the middle and upper middle class now makes poverty wages. And that’s whats happening right now and it’s messed up.

So, here is my solution.

FIRST, lock the border down tighter than a horses ass in fly season. That is first and foremost, very important.

Then give all the illegal immigrants that haven’t committed any felonies or violent crimes a path to citizenship.

Continue to allow a VERY TIGHTLY CONTROLLED slow trickle of LEGAL immigration come into the country. Our economy will absorb those that are here and now have a path to citizenship and slowly the pay rates will rise again and the people in this country that do actual labor work for a living can make a decent wage enough to comfortably support a family and buy a house and a car and live the American dream. We want to live the American dream not the Zimbabwe dream or the North Korean dream or the Mexican dream, the American dream.

What do you think?



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:48 PM
link   

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Alien Abduct

Of course I understand the difference between legal asylum and illegal entry.

Have you ever experienced life so dangerous that you would take this treacherous journey with your young children?

And as I said, this is a global occurring issue.

I am not going to ignore how globally widespread this issue is -- just because of where my own feet touch the ground.

As previously said, most migrations from dangerous areas is coming from the south to the north. Stopping them at the borders does not address the heart of the problem.

A war is being brought to us (northern borders). A wall will not address the deeper issues. If those issues are not directly addressed there will be no resolution.



In order to keep discussing this, I need to understand something. Are you saying that people are getting arrested at the checkpoints when they ask for asylum?



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 07:44 PM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Alien Abduct

Of course I understand the difference between legal asylum and illegal entry.

Have you ever experienced life so dangerous that you would take this treacherous journey with your young children?

And as I said, this is a global occurring issue.

I am not going to ignore how globally widespread this issue is -- just because of where my own feet touch the ground.

As previously said, most migrations from dangerous areas is coming from the south to the north. Stopping them at the borders does not address the heart of the problem.

A war is being brought to us (northern borders). A wall will not address the deeper issues. If those issues are not directly addressed there will be no resolution.



In order to keep discussing this, I need to understand something. Are you saying that people are getting arrested at the checkpoints when they ask for asylum?


NO.

Where'd I say anything like that?



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 07:47 PM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct

Shall we go take care of the problems in all the rest of the worlds countries too that are even worse off than Mexico? Sierra Leon, Sudan, Zimbabwe,North Korea...?


INTERNATIONAL Peacekeepers - - - seems pretty plain to me.

Oh, did I step off my own back porch? How dare I!



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 07:58 PM
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A nation with no border has no identity. America will turn into Mexico if nothing is done. Personally I'd like to stay a first world nation where laws are enforced and followed...

The Mexican government is the largest human trafficking organization ever. Funneling millions of people from South America to North America. Hence their outright opposition to a wall similar to the one they erected on their southern border with Guatemala. It would make it harder for the coyote's who work for the cartels who own the government to operate.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 10:22 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Trump is enforcing zero tolerance because it plays well with his base. They want to punish people for not being good enough to get into America.

That's all it is really, it's a way to justify being xenophobic.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 10:23 PM
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originally posted by: JAY1980
A nation with no border has no identity. America will turn into Mexico if nothing is done. Personally I'd like to stay a first world nation where laws are enforced and followed...

The Mexican government is the largest human trafficking organization ever. Funneling millions of people from South America to North America. Hence their outright opposition to a wall similar to the one they erected on their southern border with Guatemala. It would make it harder for the coyote's who work for the cartels who own the government to operate.


Texas and California have very distinct identities. Yet inside the US there is no such thing as a border between states in terms of free movement, borders exist only to define legal jurisdictions. That's all a national border should exist for too.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 10:25 PM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct
When are you people going to get it through your thick skull that letting in all these illegals is severely bringing down the pay scales of many sectors of the labor market in the United States? Do you know what that means?


Yes. It means that if your job can be done by someone with no formal education who doesn't speak the language, and that they can do it in the same country as you, for cheaper than you... that not only are you not competitive with the market, but that you've made some very poor decisions in life.

Maybe consider retraining for something more lucrative?



posted on Jun, 22 2018 @ 02:21 AM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
When are you people going to get it through your thick skull that letting in all these illegals is severely bringing down the pay scales of many sectors of the labor market in the United States? Do you know what that means?


Yes. It means that if your job can be done by someone with no formal education who doesn't speak the language, and that they can do it in the same country as you, for cheaper than you... that not only are you not competitive with the market, but that you've made some very poor decisions in life.

Maybe consider retraining for something more lucrative?


So you just spit in the face of all those fathers out their that work their ass off to provide for their families through good honest hard work?

People that work jobs like plumbing, carpentry, electrician Etc. made poor choices in life? Are you serious? There are Father’s who are plumbers or carpenters and such and their sons are plumbers or carpenters and their sons will likely do the same and you call it bad choices? Not everyone likes to sit in an office all day, some people actually like to work with their hands instead.

Jesus Christ was a Carpenter, so he made very poor choices in life? It seems you don’t know squat about skilled labor, you probably never get your soft little hands dirty. But guess what it’s called trade work it’s skilled work and it’s done pretty much the same way all around the world kinda like most other trades. So, If I wanted to I could actually go to their country and do the same thing, I could go do the same work there and undercut all of them because it’s pretty much a universal skill. So is accounting or nursing, I can name many.

So, no it’s not about making bad choices because if you read my damn post you would have read the part where I said that those same jobs used to pay well into the middle class and upper middle class range of the pay scale. Perhaps your reading comprehension skills are lacking because it appears you didn’t comprehend what you read.

What would you say if some these people over ran your job sector and undercut you and your trade? What if they did the same for ALL jobs? Would you still feel the same?

I found your post very offensive.




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