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Dems are making a big deal over standard operating procedure

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posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan



Absolutely I do.

And even better: it becomes a point to debate and discuss as people who disagree with my opinion try to post counter opinions. In the end, the hope is i am better as a person for having the discussion.


That's unfortunate you would want to do so.



Gotta call BS here man. You are here on a discussion site doing exactly what I said I was doing.




posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan



Absolutely I do.

And even better: it becomes a point to debate and discuss as people who disagree with my opinion try to post counter opinions. In the end, the hope is i am better as a person for having the discussion.


That's unfortunate you would want to do so.



Gotta call BS here man. You are here on a discussion site doing exactly what I said I was doing.


True, but I do not think you should be misrepresenting things, as that was the context of what I said.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

Because the law is absolute, there are no degrees (except those "degrees" written into the law). For instance, there is no "spirit" of a law, merely its statutory language.

A good example comes down to legitimacy. If you don't enforce all laws on a equal basis (as the 14th amendment requires), then you're not a Constitutional legal system therefore such system lacks legitimacy to govern/impose its "law" onto others via threats of violence/actual use of violence.

Equal enforcement of the law (and protection under the law) is what separates a Constitution system of law and order from a tin-pot authoritarian dictatorship.

If we don't enforce one law, then why enforce any of them? At the end of the day, it is congress' job to make or repeal laws. And it is the federal executive agencies' job to enforce them (or state LE agencies for state law). Just as it is the judiciaries job to determine whether a law is Constitutional and to interpret its statutory language. That is the entire basis of separation of powers

No secret our country has been going down hill for some time, including the "legitimacy" and "consent of the governed" (how can you truly give consent with so many lies? etc). Willfully ignoring laws (or not applying the laws equally) would be the final nail in our legal system.

Regardless, I fully support efforts to reform our immigration laws and procedures. Anything that reduces big government/bureaucracy and translates into better living conditions for citizens (and prospective citizens/residents) sounds great to me though.

I love immigrants. I love non-Americans. They are entirely welcome in our country. But they, like everyone else, have to follow our laws (or change them) or accept the punishment for breaking them. In the case of illegal entry, I personally feel a fine is a sufficient punishment (including pre-trial detention as required to ensure court appearance). If their children have no place to go during that short time (at least it better be short: right to a speedy trial) then I have no problem with them staying in a non-detention section of the same facility their parents are housed in w/ authorized visitation.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: introvert


True. Does a no-tolerance policy help perpetuate the notion of needing reform?


No, and I think I said this before but I do not support zero tolerance on any issue simply because no two situations are the same. With virtually every other violation of law, individual LEOs have the ability to exercise discretion based on the specifics of that situation and this should not be any different

For instance, as we looked at earlier, someone fleeing to the United States to escape an oppressive regime is entirely different than someone coming here to take advantage of social programs in certain areas. Just as someone coming here to make a better life for their family is different than someone coming here to perpetuate a criminal conspiracy (which is much less frequent than some want to admit).

As an American, I want to see people coming here follow our laws and respect our system of Constitutional government. As a husband a father, however, I understand completely where they are coming from. There is very little I wouldn't do to protect/provide for my family


No. It reeks of authoritarianism.


It does indeed. But how long have we been heading in this direction? You didn't make this claim, but some want to pretend the downward slide to authoritarianism/nanny statism started with Trump when it started decades before Trump was even in the picture. But I do agree as POTUS it is squarely on his shoulders to resolve now. But I believe he sees that Americans across the board and across the aisle want to see our broken immigration system fixed and a truly Constitutional government resurrected


Therefore it should logically follow that the consequences not be comparable, either.


To be sure, the consequences are unacceptable but I do not claim otherwise. One solution would be ensuring relatives/friends who come to take custody of the children that they won't be arrested for immigration violations


I believe that is incorrect. Illegal immigration has been net zero for many years.


I apologize but I must admit ignorance here. I do not know what net zero means in that context. I do know that CBP has detained approximately that many per year, so I suppose that isn't the number entering illegally but those who were caught trying to do so (I believe). I suppose that the nature of illegal immigration makes specific numbers difficult to quantify so you may well be correct
edit on 6/21/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: introvert

One thing is for certain that division in this country will ensure this and many other issues go unresolved. And for many people affected by a wide range of issues, this just isn't acceptable

I'm tired of politics ruining public discussion and tribalism ensuring that "my way or the highway" folks get their way so long as "their person" is in office. Meanwhile, neither side is ever able to achieve enough of a majority to pass laws on their own or even hold onto that power long enough to bring about meaningful changes

To me, it looks like a failed system because at some point someone decided that straying "just a little bit" from the Constitution was a good or acceptable idea. If we return to a Constitutional government (with all amendments fully intact) there may be some hope. Otherwise, I think we are seeing the end stages of a near-century long decline

It is a constant back and forth that has to end somewhere. I just hope that is a realistic goal
edit on 6/21/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

There is no "asylum" in the US
Defensive asylum is a last ditch effort for someone here illegally to avoid deportation . Almost never works.
So , no matter if a foreign national in another country that has asylum rules starts speaking of asylum rules in the US
Ignore em....



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: introvert

I do not believe i did.







 
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