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Dems are making a big deal over standard operating procedure

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posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 08:36 AM
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I'm not sure what their point is with the "separation" of children and their parents when they're in custody.

Immigrant or not, illegal alien or not.... When you're arrested, and leave your kids behind with no care giver, your kids will be taken into the custody of the state.

PERIOD

This is standard procedure for ANY arrest, including arrests against American citizens. It is obvious why, too. Kids can't take care of themselves. Family may show up, and if they can prove they're family members they will usually be able to take over as guardians for the minor children. The kids are NOT under arrest, they are wards of the state because their irresponsible criminal parents can't follow the laws.

Again, this would happen during ANY arrest where unclaimed children are present. They can't just be left alone.

Democrats are lying as usual. This is NOT a Trump Administration policy. The administration's policy is ZERO TOLERANCE of arresting all law breakers. It has NOTHING to do with taking children, as family members can always claim the children AND they can take their kids with them when they're repatriated to their actual country of residence (if they're an illegal)

edit on 6/21/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: JBurns



Everything is ok! Which is why we need another thread for this. Err...



You folks must be pretty desperate at this point, I'll file that under "unmitigated good news".



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

Not at all.

Annoyed at you people's blatant lies.

As usual, you people DO NOT control the narrative (you never do) and we won't allow your lies to propagate.

Truth always outs, including common sense/logic.

Answer this:

When a US citizen mother AND father are arrested, where do the kids go?

Now, what happens when no family members are available?

The kids become wards of the State until the parents can get the kids back. This usually involves PROVING to the government that you're capable of being a good mom/dad (ie: not being a criminal sack of sh##)


edit on 6/21/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:23 AM
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What about the case where a woman seeking asylum at a port of entry was separated from her daughter for four months? What about the woman that has been granted asylum and still hasn't had her child returned?



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Link? Who are you actually referencing?

Otherwise, sounds made up.

Once granted asylum (or released from custody) the children have no reason not to be returned, since their parents are then capable of taking care of them again. They can't take care of them while behind bars (unless the kids are at the same facility - which is not right since they're not charged with a crime!)

If they haven't been returned, blame the bloated "big government" bureaucracy the far-left supports. Big government will NEVER be competent. That has nothing to do with POTUS and everything to do with an incompetent (forced hiring, low qualifications, low skill work force) "big government" bureaucracy that can't do 1 single thing correctly.

My advice is two fold:

1) Stop supporting blatant violations of US law by encouraging unauthorized individuals to cross into our country illegally (which is a crime).

2) Stop supporting "big government" bureaucracies, so when stuff like this does happen it can actually be sorted out instead of bounced back and forth to 1,000,000 different departments/supervisors/managers/directors/agencies.

But again, I am only speculating.

What SPECIFIC case are speaking of? Otherwise, it looks like you just made that scenario up entirely.
edit on 6/21/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

Ongoing lawsuit, Ms. L v. ICE. As part of the case there's numerous affidavits from other immigrants telling similar stories.

This gives a good overview of the suit so far. In their denial of the government's move to dismiss the judge described the actions of the government as brutal and unconstitutional.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:32 AM
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Let me ask you this, in the US (for US citizens) do you get to take your children to jail with you?

Now, take a look at two druggie parents (a mom and dad). What happens *when* they go to jail? Where do their kids go?

Where do their kids go if they have no relatives that can be caretakers?

The kids obviously go to the State until the parents are capable of taking care of the kids again. Right?

This isn't a "policy" it is an inevitable result of being incarcerated. Again, the attempts to use this against Trump have already failed. No one but the rabid left believe the left's false narrative.

Our multi-thousand-count radio talk-show network has ensured that all Americans know the *truth*



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: JBurns




The kids become wards of the State


Wards is a nice euphemism for victims.


The Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” immigration policy at the border that resulted in the separation of hundreds of children from their parents has put fresh scrutiny on the facilities where migrant kids are held — and investigations have found that multiple facilities have faced allegations of misconduct and abuse in the past.

The Associated Press on Friday reported that Shenandoah Valley Juvenile Center, a Virginia juvenile detention center where some migrant children are held, has faced claims of abuse in federal court filings in a lawsuit that include statements from multiple Latino teens kept there for months or even years. They allege they were beaten, handcuffed, left nude in cold cells, and punished by being restrained for hours in chains.

The places the government sends migrant children face allegations of abuse

This seems to be all about lables and partisan bollocks for you. Fair enough. I wasn't aware that you're a Nanny State apologist. My condolences.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Thank you


Reading now



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

I'm not a nanny state apologist.

What do you expect to happen to the children while their parents are detained? Young children can't be turned lose on the streets, how will they sleep/eat/be protected/be looked after?

Not enforcing laws isn't an option either, clearly.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:42 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Have to agree with the judge here. The young girl was returned to the first defendant (now plaintiff) while the son wasn't returned to the second defendant (now plaintiff)

Makes no sense, when they pass credible fear and have an apparent valid asylum defense

I've never argued that taking kids was right or just. I just fail to see *any* other option during the arrest/etc. However, in cases of valid asylum defenses, there is no reason for the government to deny the parents their children when they're capable of caring for them

I agree with your position here. Clearly fitness as a parent isn't the issue here (no drug addiction, inability to care for children, etc)

Trump's EO will prevent further abuses like this (if it holds up in court), but is equally important to make sure people like "Mrs. C" are reunited with family
edit on 6/21/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

You do realize that 1) the woman was warned that would happen and 2) she could have avoided by problem by simply applying for a refugee visa at the US Consolate, entered the US with that Visa and then applied for asylum AFTER she'd gotten settled with her kid.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

And that's where my major issue with this change in policy stems from. People legally seeking asylum, which does make up the bulk of these migrants, are also being separated from their children. There doesn't seem to be any good reason to do that.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: TonyS

You can typically only apply for asylum at the deportation hearing, it is known as "defensive asylum"

I agree these people are willingly risking separation, but in the case of adjudication/valid asylum defenses there is no reason to continue the separation. I believe it is necessary when no other caregivers (family members) are available and then ONLY while the parent(s) in question are processed through the system.

But once they're able to care for their children, no reason to keep them separated. That becomes no longer for the good of the child and becomes a spiteful act of incompetence by bloated "big government"



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

I think you are misrepresenting this issue and contradicting yourself at the same time. You say the Dems are lying and this is not a Trump admin policy, but then say it's a Trump admin policy.

There are more people than just Dems that are making a big deal about this and I do not see how we can come together to talk about issues such as this when people such as yourself begin the conversation making blatantly false statements.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:50 AM
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Big news for the media finally. They can drop the STALE nothing-boring news the last month has brought. Kim and Trump were only good for about a week, a short one at that. I'm all for making it an unpleasant experience for illegal invaders. No quarter... If left unchecked as the dems want, the US will be no more.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Agree completely


Clearly legitimate seekers of asylum must be handled better

I have no issue with those who are attempting to immigrate under our laws, including the right to flee oppressive foreign government persecution and get asylum here or elsewhere

My *only* issue are those who do so unlawfully. Admittedly, in their position I'd probably do the exact same damn thing for my wife/children. Not probably, I would without question. But our laws have to be enforced as well, otherwise our entire system demonstrates just how illegitimate it really is (double standards, etc)

I believe President Trump is more than willing to tackle immigration reform. I also believe his border wall will be part of any such plan.

But we do agree that the status quo is not acceptable/not working for anybody



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: JBurns




Not enforcing laws isn't an option either, clearly.


We just followed orders! That didn't work out too well in Nürnberg, or did it?

What happened to the Scholar in you?



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: introvert

But it isn't a Trump administration policy. Zero tolerance is the policy, just like zero tolerance for drug dealers.

If two parents are drug dealers (or any kind of criminal) and are taken to jail, the kids can't just stay at home by themselves. They *have* to be placed with family/guardians OR the State has to look after them (young children, especially)

What other choice is their RE: the children? For ANY arrest, not just for immigration violation related arrests.

The false statement is claiming this is new to Trump. Remember the pictures the left circulated a few weeks ago? And blamed Trump yet they turned out to be from Obama-era? Yeah, claiming SEPARATIONS only happen under Trump is the real lie

The truth is that SEPARATION happens any time a child's caregiver(s) are arrested. Zero tolerance simply means the law is fully enforced, without discretion from individual officers. And in reality, officers *still* have personal discretion regardless of policy - if you want to be realistic.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

PO, if you want to end this practice then change the laws!

If we start selectively enforcing laws (which this *has* been the law for decades) then that makes our entire system illegitimate. To be frank, at the Federal level, I don't entirely disagree with that prospect (minus a handful of crimes)

But let us be clear about this: if you ignore one law, you have to ignore them all. Otherwise, the 14th amendment is violated RE: equal application/protection under the law.

Again, if you can figure out a better way then that is great! A better way *does* need to be found, I don't dispute that. My only goal is pointing out that this is NOT an issue exclusive to President Trump. Trump is simply the first President to do something about it via Executive Order (which the courts will likely strike down as illegal if it is challenged)
edit on 6/21/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)




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