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"Don’t worry, the Republicans, and your President, will fix it!"

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posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 05:19 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: dragonridr

Yes, it's been well-documented that the current centers are using chain link containments.

You haven't been keeping up with the news, have you?

Try doing some research before you buy what the media is selling.

(Particularly as most of your "facts" are BS straight from Fox News.)


Really did you realize the chain link fences were in the processing areas? They are used as walls for processing at ports of entry. Jas nothing to do with children in cages. In fact people that go through processing are not separated from their families. They have 3
options they can be held until court date. Voluntarily waving their rights. They can return to Mexico and wait for their court date. Or they can simply decline the processing and return home.

Since they have violated no laws they cannot be detained. Again do some research their are no cages. Well let me correct that there wasnt but with family detention centers their will be. And as i stated someone will take this to court for violating the judges orders.




posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 05:20 AM
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originally posted by: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Spock would have completely destroyed you.



I can agree with this sentiment, Spock is one extremely badass MFer......


Damn we agree once again. Perhaps you are playing a 4D chess game with me?




posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 05:38 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Uh, what I was going for was establishing and enforcing a border. The hope was that someone would point out that we already have an established border that isn’t enforced but that somehow this new border would work because we self annexed 100 miles to appease the slower witted politicians into thinking they got something out of it.

But yeah pinky swears make everything binding and makes it no go backsies



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 05:39 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck




Is it because we have defined where the USA stops and starts?


Physically speaking yes of course. But america is more than it's borders and laws.

The spirit of our immigration law is one of togetherness and brotherhood. One of hope in a dark world.
Have we forgotten this in our adherence to the letter of the law?




Between Mexico and the US, there does exist an extradition agreement, but that agreement is not always honored as quickly as it could be and there is no overreaching authority to enforce it. The difference in the standard of living is pronounced, and I along with many others attribute this to an inferior system of justice in Mexico. And of course, both are completely sovereign countries and there is no unifying authority to ensure their cooperation.

More reason to try and help the ones that want to be here get here faster.
And though I know the problems with this statement , it is a dream that I have: Make mexico a state.




Thus we have lost all control over who is within our borders.

Well I don't really want the government tracking people so much anyway... Though I admit I see the problems with this.




Those coming across illegally have already shown a certain disdain for our laws; can we expect them to suddenly abandon the way of life that brought them here?

Why not? I have broken laws but I have no interest in bringing down the US. I pay my taxes and I don't want to hurt anyone.
Remember a lot of these people arn't criminals and crossing the border is the first, maybe only crime, they ever committed.




while our culture is displaced by the culture of those who already have shown disdain for our way of life

I don't see that happening nor do I think that it would. America is great at blending cultures together to become something new and all our own. Maybe if a large enough number in a short enough time frame could flip the US to their culture but how could anyone really know what that number or time frame would be.



A country is defined by both its borders physically and its culture socially. So if our border is unrecognized by both our enforcement agencies and the people crossing it,

I would call this a problem yes. That's why I call for reform. But lets not lose our social culture in the process. Though we may treat our new arrivals badly for a time america has always been an open arms kind of place.



We may yet have time... but that time is not unlimited.

Agreed but let us keep calm. The pressure is not so great. Yet. I understand that you would rather it never got to that point.



I'm not sure what you define as "treating them like refugees

Refugee is a term for those escaping something. A person who had little or no choice to come here.
Immigrant has a choice so there is no accuse for them not to do it legally.
I just want the ones who really are escaping death by cartel or gangs to be acknowledged.



Detainment is housing them.

Yes and I honestly don't have a really problem with how we are doing it right now if it's temporary. But with this amount of people we need long term comfortable housing. Especially with children involved. the conditions of the detainment center is only going to degrade with time.



I support immigration reform, but we are so overloaded with illegal immigration, there is no time left to address legal immigration. We have to stop the flow of illegal immigrants first; else why do we need to even have legal immigration?

If there really was no time left we wouldn't have time to build the wall ether. Or we would have to build it in record time. I'm sure some of your frustration with us anti wall people comes from feeling this way.



That's a huge cost, and a blank check as well. Housing is the largest expense most Americans have, and your suggestion is to give that kind of benefit to those who have already broken the law for free.

I am ok with that. And that is coming from a guy who saved and saved to buy and house and when he got it floods came and destroyed it. I had no flood insurance. Lost everything. Only had it for a year.



Not if the benefit is to illegal immigrants. People will try to duplicate what works, and what would work in that case would be illegally immigrating. What you propose would make illegal immigration much more attractive than legal immigration.

IDK, Make the legal way easy and comfortable with housing while you wait and just send the illegals back? Why would people risk the desert on foot with kids if that were done.




At least you do acknowledge that our actions have a great effect on future actions of immigrants.

Of course they do.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 05:43 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

But now I am hearing that they are prosecutors so that more people can be prosecuted with out having legal defense. 8(

I hope he didn't do that.
Should be equal numbers of prosecutors and defense lawyers.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 06:26 AM
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a reply to: scraedtosleep


The spirit of our immigration law is one of togetherness and brotherhood. One of hope in a dark world.

Hope for what? To be part of that "dark world"? To have the "dark world" become part of us?

A border functions to allow us to exist with hope against the world which is outside our border. Without a border, how do we separate ourselves from the darkness?


More reason to try and help the ones that want to be here get here faster.
And though I know the problems with this statement , it is a dream that I have: Make mexico a state.

Why would Mexico want to be a part of that which they have sent their less desirables to?


Why not? I have broken laws but I have no interest in bringing down the US. I pay my taxes and I don't want to hurt anyone.

It does not always take an intent to do a thing to accomplish a thing. If no laws are enforced, what kind of society would we have? Perfectly fine to murder your neighbor, rape his wife, steal what he owns?

Yes, that is an extreme example, but the point is that we all depend on the laws being enforced. If we decide we will only enforce certain laws, which ones will we enforce? Will we all want to enforce the same ones? If not, how will we handle living where people decide their own laws from those available and ignore the rest?


Remember a lot of these people arn't criminals and crossing the border is the first, maybe only crime, they ever committed.

And many of them live quite well without ever breaking another law.

But many do break other laws. Some are smugglers. Some are MS-13 members. Some are just looking for handouts. Some just got in too much trouble in Mexico and skipped town. We don't know. We don't even know these families separated from their children aren't really human traffickers.

is it asking too much to simply identify oneself at the border?


I don't see that happening nor do I think that it would. America is great at blending cultures together to become something new and all our own. Maybe if a large enough number in a short enough time frame could flip the US to their culture but how could anyone really know what that number or time frame would be.

Culture is determined by the people in a society. If the people in that society are changed, the culture will change. A few immigrants moving in will not affect the culture appreciably; a sudden influx of immigrants will.

The US is not a single culture... it is a mixture that really should be about 5 different countries, truth be known. Immigration does not spread equally, so there will likely be some cultures affected more than others. It is also likely that, given the massive number of illegal immigrants crossing, some cultures will be changed enough to be unrecognizable.

I don't think you realize the magnitude of the issue.


I would call this a problem yes. That's why I call for reform. But lets not lose our social culture in the process. Though we may treat our new arrivals badly for a time america has always been an open arms kind of place.

Continuing to allow illegal immigration unchecked is the very thing that will affect our culture, not curbing it. No one is complaining about legal immigrants... this is only about illegal immigrants. Please do not disrupt a good debate by trying to equate the two.


Refugee is a term for those escaping something. A person who had little or no choice to come here.
Immigrant has a choice so there is no accuse for them not to do it legally.
I just want the ones who really are escaping death by cartel or gangs to be acknowledged.

The present system we have cannot effectively grant asylum to anyone. Hearings take years. That's not asylum.

The reason it can take years is that so many people are abusing it. We need to stop that if we care anything at all about actually granting asylum.


Yes and I honestly don't have a really problem with how we are doing it right now if it's temporary. But with this amount of people we need long term comfortable housing. Especially with children involved. the conditions of the detainment center is only going to degrade with time.

I'm seeing a pattern here. You seem to be fine with much of what we are doing as long as it is not overwhelmed. It is overwhelmed.

The detainment is temporary, but the sheer number of cases that have to be considered makes temporary into a fairly long time period.


If there really was no time left we wouldn't have time to build the wall ether. Or we would have to build it in record time. I'm sure some of your frustration with us anti wall people comes from feeling this way.

That reminds me of the old argument, "I'm too old to go back to college. In four years I'll be 50!" "So how old will you be in four years if you don't go back to college?"

I'm just not a fan of giving up just because it might take a while to finish.


I am ok with that. And that is coming from a guy who saved and saved to buy and house and when he got it floods came and destroyed it. I had no flood insurance. Lost everything. Only had it for a year.

Sorry to hear about that. So how do you feel about saving and saving to buy someone else a house... someone you don't even know? That's what you say you are OK with. Money doesn't appear out of thin air... it either comes from taxes, or from inflation when it is borrowed.

Sorry, but I'm not OK with it. We have people right here, in this country, who are in need of housing. Why does no one care about them?


IDK, Make the legal way easy and comfortable with housing while you wait and just send the illegals back? Why would people risk the desert on foot with kids if that were done.

But that is the opposite of what you just said you support. It's not the legal immigrants that are being held on the border... it's the illegal ones!

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 06:26 AM
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a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein


whatabout the zero tolerance thing that suddenly forces us to detain normal law abiding migrants? That's the real problem here. Entering the country illegally used to be just a misdemeanor and if you had no prior record, you could carry on.


When you say “normal law abiding migrants” do you mean illegal immigrants that broke the law by crossing the border illegally?

That’s the problem here, our immigration policy hasn’t been being enforced like it should have been and frankly it’s still lacking but slowly improving.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 06:28 AM
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a reply to: scraedtosleep


But now I am hearing that they are prosecutors so that more people can be prosecuted with out having legal defense.

Well, when a system is stretched to overcapacity the way immigration is, one can't expect it to function well. The DoJ's job is to prosecute criminals, not defend them.

All of this, again, can be solved by building a wall. Stop the system from being overwhelmed.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 06:33 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Just curious... did you read the three articles I linked?



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 07:16 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck




If no laws are enforced, what kind of society would we have?

Not all laws a just laws. What type of society do we have if we can't tell the difference?
Sometimes laws need to be changed.



Hope for what? To be part of that "dark world"? To have the "dark world" become part of us? A border functions to allow us to exist with hope against the world which is outside our border. Without a border, how do we separate ourselves from the darkness?

I think , wow theredneck has a very dark outlook about the world. Things arn't as bad as you think they are . Darkness isn't going to take us over. I feel like you think I want open borders. I do not. I want better immigration laws and for the US to continue to be the place people want to go to for a better life.




Why would Mexico want to be a part of that which they have sent their less desirables to?

If as many people as you claim or coming over the border, enough to destroy us even, then I would say that a large portion of their population does in fact want to be american. I do not believe that the majority of immigrants are bad people.



is it asking too much to simply identify oneself at the border?

No , but have you ever talked with one to find out what their reason was? I haven't. But I am not going to just assume it's because they are evil people. I know a lot of good people that have broken the law.




Culture is determined by the people in a society. If the people in that society are changed, the culture will change. A few immigrants moving in will not affect the culture appreciably; a sudden influx of immigrants will.

How many irish immigrants came over and how badly did that destroy american culture? Do you think those starving Irish were the best Ireland had to offer?
In 1881 and 1920 more than 23 million new immigrants from all parts of the world, but mostly from Europe, to the United States. Did that destroy us.



Continuing to allow illegal immigration unchecked is the very thing that will affect our culture,

I do not want unchecked immigration. Please don't treat me as if I do.



I'm seeing a pattern here. You seem to be fine with much of what we are doing as long as it is not overwhelmed. It is overwhelmed.

I'm just not convinced of that.



I'm just not a fan of giving up just because it might take a while to finish.

I feel like the wall IS giving up.




That reminds me of the old argument, "I'm too old to go back to college. In four years I'll be 50!" "So how old will you be in four years if you don't go back to college?"

But your argument is that there is no time left to do anything except build a wall that will take years to complete.
I'm saying that we have time to figure out a better solution.




Sorry to hear about that. So how do you feel about saving and saving to buy someone else a house... someone you don't even know? That's what you say you are OK with. Money doesn't appear out of thin air... it either comes from taxes, or from inflation when it is borrowed.

That's not what would happen. The money would come out of the taxes I already pay. Not my savings. I have no problem paying a little more taxes in order to have shelter for strangers.



We have people right here, in this country, who are in need of housing. Why does no one care about them?

I do care about them and would pay more taxes so that everyone could have housing as a right in america. Gladly. I have been homeless I know what it's like.




But that is the opposite of what you just said you support. It's not the legal immigrants that are being held on the border... it's the illegal ones!

yes you pointed out that what I suggested would incentivise illegal crossing. I agree. I was wrong. So I suggested a different idea.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 07:21 AM
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But but but that was 10 years ago! It shouldn't matter!

By the way, did you POTUS had an affair with Stormy Daniels 10+ years ago? It should matter!



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 07:22 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr

Really did you realize the chain link fences were in the processing areas?


That must be why the kids are on the floor sleeping in the photos.

Now that you've gotten close to the truth, keep going.

If you don't know that the policy was changed by the Trump Administration in APRIL and if you don't know that Trump has been LYING HIS ASS OFF for weeks saying he couldn't do anything about the family separations, and if you DRANK THE KOOLAID on his grandstanding ploy to sign an EO that REVERSED HIS OWN POLICY ... then I really have nothing more to say to you on the subject.

Obviously, you prefer your own beliefs over the facts.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 07:30 AM
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a reply to: RowanBean

Sorry, I must have missed those. I am in and out while I code.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 07:54 AM
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a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein




They deserve that if they can make it and we can surely use more people - we've got plenty of space.


If they deserve it so much open your home and put your money where your mouth is. You won't because most Democrats just love to blame Trump and spend other people's money. California is a failed state and nutjobs like jerry brown show that communist practices don't work.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: thepixelpusher

Why is this the 4th most popular response among Trump fans to these issues?

It's asinine. We are all responsible, as Americans, for what our government does. Pointing out and standing against wrongdoing does not merit this trite innuendo repeated incessantly.

To turn it around on you to prove the point, why don't you go sleep in the cages and take care of the kids yourself, as you're so certain of the "righteousness" of the Trump Adminsitrations actions, eh?

Works both ways, huh.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: scraedtosleep


Not all laws a just laws. What type of society do we have if we can't tell the difference?
Sometimes laws need to be changed.

Yes, sometimes they do. But what is a "just law"? To some degree that itself is defined by culture. You and I probably would agree mostly on what is just, but how about someone from Guatemala? Would they necessarily have the same idea of what a just law is?


I think , wow theredneck has a very dark outlook about the world.

I was using your words.


I feel like you think I want open borders. I do not. I want better immigration laws and for the US to continue to be the place people want to go to for a better life.

I want the same thing. I want an easier and fairer way for people who want to be Americans to do so. But I want them to come in legally, respecting our laws. And I want illegal immigration, along with all the problems that come with it, stopped.

A wall does that. It stops the problem with illegal immigration so we can focus on legal immigration. One cannot open a door if there is no wall around it.


If as many people as you claim or coming over the border, enough to destroy us even, then I would say that a large portion of their population does in fact want to be american. I do not believe that the majority of immigrants are bad people.

There is a difference between wanting to be an American and wanting to live in America.

And I make no argument as to ratio of good to bad. Tell me, if you are given a bowl of M&Ms and are told that three out of that bowl are deadly and will kill you if you eat them, will you start eating? It's only three...


have you ever talked with one to find out what their reason was? I haven't.

Neither have I. But I have talked to many friends and family members of Mexican heritage, and they generally feel the way I do: not that Mexicans are evil, but that there is an evil element that uses them to come across an open border.

I would assume their reason is they want a better life. That is not the same as wanting to be American.


How many irish immigrants came over and how badly did that destroy american culture? Do you think those starving Irish were the best Ireland had to offer?
In 1881 and 1920 more than 23 million new immigrants from all parts of the world, but mostly from Europe, to the United States. Did that destroy us.

In a way, yes. The culture changed.

The impact was minimized, however, because at that time there were vast areas left to settle, and a great many of those immigrants settled there. I am descended from some of the early outcast immigrants. I have several genetic markers from the Black Dutch.

We do not have the room to handle that many immigrants today.


I do not want unchecked immigration. Please don't treat me as if I do.

Your posts seem to indicate otherwise. So far, all of your suggestions would favor an open border, except of course where you state otherwise without an explanation. Perhaps you are simply unaware of the scope of what is happening.


I'm just not convinced of that.

Then why is there over a year's backlog for judges to simply hear a request for asylum? Is that not the definition of overwhelmed?


I feel like the wall IS giving up.

I'm not sure how that is. I certainly do not see it that way. I see it as taking back control of our borders.


But your argument is that there is no time left to do anything except build a wall that will take years to complete.

Where did I give that impression?


I'm saying that we have time to figure out a better solution.

We don't have time to handle what is happening right now. Again, over a year backlog for a immigration judge to hear a request for asylum. We are too busy bailing to fix the boat when it comes to fixing the laws. We need to plug the leak, then we can bail the boat and see if we can plug it better.


That's not what would happen. The money would come out of the taxes I already pay. Not my savings. I have no problem paying a little more taxes in order to have shelter for strangers.

So you are expecting which agencies of the US government to shut down? All of your tax money (and them some) is already being spent on other things. If we add something, especially something as extravagant as providing modern comfortable housing for everyone who crosses an open border, it will increase the taxes as though you were paying directly for the housing.


I do care about them and would pay more taxes so that everyone could have housing as a right in america. Gladly. I have been homeless I know what it's like.

Might I suggest my favorite charity, Habitat for Humanity? They are trying to help with the issue.

In the meantime, I do not hear the furor from those complaining about the border situation when it comes to homeless Americans.


yes you pointed out that what I suggested would incentivise illegal crossing. I agree. I was wrong. So I suggested a different idea.

Fair enough. So you do agree in principle that we should disincentivize illegal border crossings?

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 08:12 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66


Why is this the 4th most popular response among Trump fans to these issues?

Because it's true?

The government does not have unlimited means. Our debt is already having an inflationary effect on our economy, and has for years. Every dime paid in taxes is already spent. So where does all the money come from to house these criminals in more comfortable surroundings?

It will come from taxes. Very, very high taxes. I do not want very, very high taxes. Sorry.

So, if the loudest voices that are crying so loudly that the housing conditions are so deplorable are serious, why don't they go ahead and pony up their share to show the rest of us how well it'll work? That sounds fair to me... if I want something, I have to pay for it; I can't just cry for it until everyone else chips in.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 08:18 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

So we can't find enough money to treat our fellow man in a humane manner but there's enough to form a "Space Force?"



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 08:21 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

It's not true, Redneck. It's not a valid response. The concern is not "we don't have enough money" and I think you know that.

As someone else said, I always find the concerns about money, particularly the relatively tiny amounts that are used to care for those we have detained ... when the billions that flow out our doors and windows annually to the military industrial complex is just okie dokie.

Jesus said something about this kind of thing if I remember my Sunday School: "Strain at a gnat and swallow a camel."



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

Strong post with the whatabouts then you trashed it with the "normal law-abiding migrants". Maybe next time...



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