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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: dragonridr
Yes, it's been well-documented that the current centers are using chain link containments.
You haven't been keeping up with the news, have you?
Try doing some research before you buy what the media is selling.
(Particularly as most of your "facts" are BS straight from Fox News.)
Is it because we have defined where the USA stops and starts?
Between Mexico and the US, there does exist an extradition agreement, but that agreement is not always honored as quickly as it could be and there is no overreaching authority to enforce it. The difference in the standard of living is pronounced, and I along with many others attribute this to an inferior system of justice in Mexico. And of course, both are completely sovereign countries and there is no unifying authority to ensure their cooperation.
Thus we have lost all control over who is within our borders.
Those coming across illegally have already shown a certain disdain for our laws; can we expect them to suddenly abandon the way of life that brought them here?
while our culture is displaced by the culture of those who already have shown disdain for our way of life
A country is defined by both its borders physically and its culture socially. So if our border is unrecognized by both our enforcement agencies and the people crossing it,
We may yet have time... but that time is not unlimited.
I'm not sure what you define as "treating them like refugees
Detainment is housing them.
I support immigration reform, but we are so overloaded with illegal immigration, there is no time left to address legal immigration. We have to stop the flow of illegal immigrants first; else why do we need to even have legal immigration?
That's a huge cost, and a blank check as well. Housing is the largest expense most Americans have, and your suggestion is to give that kind of benefit to those who have already broken the law for free.
Not if the benefit is to illegal immigrants. People will try to duplicate what works, and what would work in that case would be illegally immigrating. What you propose would make illegal immigration much more attractive than legal immigration.
At least you do acknowledge that our actions have a great effect on future actions of immigrants.
The spirit of our immigration law is one of togetherness and brotherhood. One of hope in a dark world.
More reason to try and help the ones that want to be here get here faster.
And though I know the problems with this statement , it is a dream that I have: Make mexico a state.
Why not? I have broken laws but I have no interest in bringing down the US. I pay my taxes and I don't want to hurt anyone.
Remember a lot of these people arn't criminals and crossing the border is the first, maybe only crime, they ever committed.
I don't see that happening nor do I think that it would. America is great at blending cultures together to become something new and all our own. Maybe if a large enough number in a short enough time frame could flip the US to their culture but how could anyone really know what that number or time frame would be.
I would call this a problem yes. That's why I call for reform. But lets not lose our social culture in the process. Though we may treat our new arrivals badly for a time america has always been an open arms kind of place.
Refugee is a term for those escaping something. A person who had little or no choice to come here.
Immigrant has a choice so there is no accuse for them not to do it legally.
I just want the ones who really are escaping death by cartel or gangs to be acknowledged.
Yes and I honestly don't have a really problem with how we are doing it right now if it's temporary. But with this amount of people we need long term comfortable housing. Especially with children involved. the conditions of the detainment center is only going to degrade with time.
If there really was no time left we wouldn't have time to build the wall ether. Or we would have to build it in record time. I'm sure some of your frustration with us anti wall people comes from feeling this way.
I am ok with that. And that is coming from a guy who saved and saved to buy and house and when he got it floods came and destroyed it. I had no flood insurance. Lost everything. Only had it for a year.
IDK, Make the legal way easy and comfortable with housing while you wait and just send the illegals back? Why would people risk the desert on foot with kids if that were done.
whatabout the zero tolerance thing that suddenly forces us to detain normal law abiding migrants? That's the real problem here. Entering the country illegally used to be just a misdemeanor and if you had no prior record, you could carry on.
But now I am hearing that they are prosecutors so that more people can be prosecuted with out having legal defense.
If no laws are enforced, what kind of society would we have?
Hope for what? To be part of that "dark world"? To have the "dark world" become part of us? A border functions to allow us to exist with hope against the world which is outside our border. Without a border, how do we separate ourselves from the darkness?
Why would Mexico want to be a part of that which they have sent their less desirables to?
is it asking too much to simply identify oneself at the border?
Culture is determined by the people in a society. If the people in that society are changed, the culture will change. A few immigrants moving in will not affect the culture appreciably; a sudden influx of immigrants will.
Continuing to allow illegal immigration unchecked is the very thing that will affect our culture,
I'm seeing a pattern here. You seem to be fine with much of what we are doing as long as it is not overwhelmed. It is overwhelmed.
I'm just not a fan of giving up just because it might take a while to finish.
That reminds me of the old argument, "I'm too old to go back to college. In four years I'll be 50!" "So how old will you be in four years if you don't go back to college?"
Sorry to hear about that. So how do you feel about saving and saving to buy someone else a house... someone you don't even know? That's what you say you are OK with. Money doesn't appear out of thin air... it either comes from taxes, or from inflation when it is borrowed.
We have people right here, in this country, who are in need of housing. Why does no one care about them?
But that is the opposite of what you just said you support. It's not the legal immigrants that are being held on the border... it's the illegal ones!
originally posted by: dragonridr
Really did you realize the chain link fences were in the processing areas?
They deserve that if they can make it and we can surely use more people - we've got plenty of space.
Not all laws a just laws. What type of society do we have if we can't tell the difference?
Sometimes laws need to be changed.
I think , wow theredneck has a very dark outlook about the world.
I feel like you think I want open borders. I do not. I want better immigration laws and for the US to continue to be the place people want to go to for a better life.
If as many people as you claim or coming over the border, enough to destroy us even, then I would say that a large portion of their population does in fact want to be american. I do not believe that the majority of immigrants are bad people.
have you ever talked with one to find out what their reason was? I haven't.
How many irish immigrants came over and how badly did that destroy american culture? Do you think those starving Irish were the best Ireland had to offer?
In 1881 and 1920 more than 23 million new immigrants from all parts of the world, but mostly from Europe, to the United States. Did that destroy us.
I do not want unchecked immigration. Please don't treat me as if I do.
I'm just not convinced of that.
I feel like the wall IS giving up.
But your argument is that there is no time left to do anything except build a wall that will take years to complete.
I'm saying that we have time to figure out a better solution.
That's not what would happen. The money would come out of the taxes I already pay. Not my savings. I have no problem paying a little more taxes in order to have shelter for strangers.
I do care about them and would pay more taxes so that everyone could have housing as a right in america. Gladly. I have been homeless I know what it's like.
yes you pointed out that what I suggested would incentivise illegal crossing. I agree. I was wrong. So I suggested a different idea.
Why is this the 4th most popular response among Trump fans to these issues?