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"Don’t worry, the Republicans, and your President, will fix it!"

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posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:13 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

You sure do spend a good about of typing power complaining about what other folks are doing with their time.

Don't mean to be a prick but since when does bitching solve anything?




posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:17 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck




But the statement above is not based in anyone's opinion... it is a fact, witnessed by the evidence of the sheer amount of illegal immigrants coming into the US unimpeded.

I do not see our immediate or impending doom as a country because of how many people are crossing or attempting to cross our border. Say that what is happening at our southern border is sure to bring an end to the US unless we hurry up and fix it right now is an opinion.

I feel that we have time.




Illegal immigrants can only be either granted access or imprisoned until they can be deported or allowed in.

Are these really the only options? Can't we house them and treat the ones who are running from vilance like refugees until they become citizens.





The only reason this is happening is that there are more requests for asylum than the judges can hear.

Wouldn't that suggest that to fix this underlying issue would be most important?
More judges? Faster vetting? Judges hearing more than one case at the same time?
Immigration reform?

Couldn't we house the families temporarily until they become citizens?
That would cut down on illegals as well. Once they learn that they get a comfy place, better than what they had, to stay at while they wait to be free americans. They will want to do it legally. I think incentivizing people to make the right choice is better than forcing them to comply. I think what we are doing to them now is sure to turn the ones that do come legally into dem voters.

And even if housing them cost more then building and maintaining the wall (which I daubt) It would be a more human thing than to just leave them all to their fate behind a wall.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:20 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr

lol Nice way to find the silver lining to it.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:23 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr

Since you seem to know about this it would be helpful if you made a thread talking about the india/pakestian wall.

Find out if it works and how well.
Find out what their vetting is like and how many illegals get past it.
Find out what it's made of and how much it cost.

Please ty.


It would be a big help for debates about our maybe future wall.
edit on 21-6-2018 by scraedtosleep because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:26 AM
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a reply to: JinMI



Don't mean to be a prick but since when does bitching solve anything?


Ask that to 95% of the OP's these days. Sounds a bit pointless to complain about someone bitching on a site that is a 24/7 bitch-fest.

This OP is not worthy of the ATS front page, or at least it used to not be. But it seems this is the level of intellectualism that is so coveted around these parts nowadays.

The OP of this thread used to be one of the most insightful members on these boards and made some genuinely great threads and discussions back in the day but nowadays he is nothing more than a partisan and political hack saying anything in order to make it to the front page and get the most recognition (stars) which unfortunately is this sort of low-information post that does nothing other than stir the pot.
edit on 6/21/2018 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:28 AM
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originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: TheRedneck




But the statement above is not based in anyone's opinion... it is a fact, witnessed by the evidence of the sheer amount of illegal immigrants coming into the US unimpeded.

I do not see our immediate or impending doom as a country because of how many people are crossing or attempting to cross our border. Say that what is happening at our southern border is sure to bring an end to the US unless we hurry up and fix it right now is an opinion.

I feel that we have time.




Illegal immigrants can only be either granted access or imprisoned until they can be deported or allowed in.

Are these really the only options? Can't we house them and treat the ones who are running from vilance like refugees until they become citizens.





The only reason this is happening is that there are more requests for asylum than the judges can hear.

Wouldn't that suggest that to fix this underlying issue would be most important?
More judges? Faster vetting? Judges hearing more than one case at the same time?
Immigration reform?

Couldn't we house the families temporarily until they become citizens?
That would cut down on illegals as well. Once they learn that they get a comfy place, better than what they had, to stay at while they wait to be free americans. They will want to do it legally. I think incentivizing people to make the right choice is better than forcing them to comply. I think what we are doing to them now is sure to turn the ones that do come legally into dem voters.

And even if housing them cost more then building and maintaining the wall (which I daubt) It would be a more human thing than to just leave them all to their fate behind a wall.


This is what australia did but they are having problems with that as well. I think truly the only way to stop immigration is to make things better in their country. Do you think people would send their kids by themselves if they thought they could provide them a better life.

Think about this 80 percent have no parents with them but families have to pay thousands of dollars to send them. And they will never know if they made it or cayotes shot them and left them in a dessert to die. Did you know families send daughters with plan b medication in case their daughters are raped along the way. Think about this family spends money often more then a year of wages knowing the dangers but see the opportunity for them more important then the risks.

If families had other options in their countries illegal immigration would end



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:30 AM
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a reply to: RowanBean


The same can be said for any president.

Yes, it can, but the backlash against Trump has actually been quantified to be several times as bad as any other President in recent memory.


I did say I would give Trump credit for meeting with Kim. Maybe a very, very small credit. But still a credit anyway.

I consider that a fair statement. I am not yet going to call him the great peacemaker because of an initial meeting. He did good IMO, but there is a lot left to do before we have peace and a lot that can happen to oppose that peace.



I just wish Trump would hurry up with his promise and build the damn wall!!!

In his defense, he is trying. The President is not omnipotent. He has to follow the Constitution and that document says that Congress controls the money flow.

It all goes back to Congress... why is someone as opposed to legalization of marijuana in a position to press legal action against people for using it? Because Congress didn't legalize it when they had the chance... they just let Obama ignore it. Why don't we have a wall being built? Because Congress won't appropriate the funds. Why is there a problem with DACA? because the Congress did not codify it when they had a chance and now are using it as a political football.
Why are kids being separated from their parents? Because Congress passed laws that mandate it if the border is enforced.

Don't get me wrong: Trump is no saint. He is an egotistical, vain, Yankee real estate tycoon. But compared to a Congress that can't seem to decide what time of day it is, he's sure looking a lot more saintly in comparison.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:39 AM
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Do more negative things, get more negative press.

Most Americans don't want The Wall and most do want DACA.

CBS News Poll

The Hill - Rassmussen

Pew Research Center

Etc. etc.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:51 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I partly agree with you trump was put into a no win situation. To stop people from being released into the US he has to arrest them. But courts told him he can't arrest children crossing the border. So in order to detain the parents he has to do something with the children.

So he started daycare centers until the parents are processed. But as we see this isnt working either. So now hes going to violate the court order and detain the children. But even as we speak their is lawyers filling law suits against the government same as they did to obama when he had this policy.

So what option left law needs to be created any law congress passes will have to be upheld by the courts. So what would be the solution there is only two. Either we release families and hope they return for their day in court. Or change the rules as ro when you can apply for asylum for example if a law was passed that said anyone caught sneaking over the border cannot apply for asylum most wouldn't do it.

Another law change is with Mexico of mexico wants to continue to have across border trade they need to start securing the border as well. Right now the mexican government makes money off immigrants trying to reach the US. Well more precisely the drug cartels do who bribe the mexican government.

I read an article that said they charge any where from 1500.00 to 12000.00 for safe passage through areas they control. If refugees cant pay or families cant get the money together they sell them in to slavery.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:52 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr

LOL ... "daycare centers" with cages.

Minor issue, really.




posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:55 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck
Looks like you were right about the legal problems when you said



The only reason this is happening is that there are more requests for asylum than the judges can hear.




Wouldn't that suggest that to fix this underlying issue would be most important? More judges? Faster vetting? Judges hearing more than one case at the same time? Immigration reform?


Right after I said this I turned on the news and hear that trump has sent extra military lawyers to the border in an effort to make this go faster. He is paying those lawyers with defense funds.

I totally agree with this move by trump.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:57 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Oh look, its the chief engineer in charge of all the deflector shields

2 whole posts just about me? I feel special now.

Standby, I'm about to post an even better thread - you're gonna love it.




posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 04:59 AM
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a reply to: scraedtosleep


I do not see our immediate or impending doom as a country because of how many people are crossing or attempting to cross our border. Say that what is happening at our southern border is sure to bring an end to the US unless we hurry up and fix it right now is an opinion.

I feel that we have time.

The more immediate concern is that illegal immigration raises our crime rate and weakens our laws since it is, in effect, a refusal to follow law.

As for the survival of the country, I ask you this: how do we know we are in the USA? Is it because we have defined where the USA stops and starts? That line, while imaginary, determines which laws are enforced. Mexican laws are different from US law, just like Tennessee laws are different than Alabama laws. the difference is threefold: between states there is an agreement that fugitives from justice will be apprehended and returned, the same Federal laws and US Constitution apply, and the standard of living is essentially the same.

Between Mexico and the US, there does exist an extradition agreement, but that agreement is not always honored as quickly as it could be and there is no overreaching authority to enforce it. The difference in the standard of living is pronounced, and I along with many others attribute this to an inferior system of justice in Mexico. And of course, both are completely sovereign countries and there is no unifying authority to ensure their cooperation.

Thus, people in Mexico have an incentive to come to the US: better justice and a higher standard of living. We allow many in legally, through an admittedly outdated system, but that number is dwarfed by the number of illegals crossing the border. Thus we have lost all control over who is within our borders. Those coming across illegally have already shown a certain disdain for our laws; can we expect them to suddenly abandon the way of life that brought them here?

Mexican culture is vastly different from US culture. A country is defined by both its borders physically and its culture socially. So if our border is unrecognized by both our enforcement agencies and the people crossing it, while our culture is displaced by the culture of those who already have shown disdain for our way of life, what definition of a country is left?

We may yet have time... but that time is not unlimited.


Are these really the only options? Can't we house them and treat the ones who are running from vilance like refugees until they become citizens.

Detainment is housing them. I'm not sure what you define as "treating them like refugees." They are being treated as immigrants (which would include refugees) who are entering without prior vetting and are in need of housing. They are not being abused, but they are being detained until they can get due process. If they are not detained, by definition they are able to enter the US and go wherever they wish to do whatever they wish.


Wouldn't that suggest that to fix this underlying issue would be most important?
More judges? Faster vetting? Judges hearing more than one case at the same time?
Immigration reform?

It would literally take thousands of new judges to fix the issue, and no guarantee that the increased number of judges will not again be overwhelmed. As a matter of fact, recent history shows that the easier we are on illegal immigration, the more illegal immigration will exist.

I support immigration reform, but we are so overloaded with illegal immigration, there is no time left to address legal immigration. We have to stop the flow of illegal immigrants first; else why do we need to even have legal immigration?


Couldn't we house the families temporarily until they become citizens?

That's a huge cost, and a blank check as well. Housing is the largest expense most Americans have, and your suggestion is to give that kind of benefit to those who have already broken the law for free.


That would cut down on illegals as well. Once they learn that they get a comfy place, better than what they had, to stay at while they wait to be free americans. They will want to do it legally.

Not if the benefit is to illegal immigrants. People will try to duplicate what works, and what would work in that case would be illegally immigrating. What you propose would make illegal immigration much more attractive than legal immigration.

At least you do acknowledge that our actions have a great effect on future actions of immigrants.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 05:04 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: dragonridr

LOL ... "daycare centers" with cages.

Minor issue, really.



No there wasnt cages that was a lie to get emotional response and worked on you apparently.

Those cages you were shown was from obamas family detention centers. Try doing some research before you buy what the media is selling. I took the time to learn even talked with my uncle who works with border patrol and asked questions. Even explained why him and my aunt started taking in minors from places like Guatemala. These poor kids are sent across the border by themselves.

My aunt and uncle are currently adopting a 9 year old from Guatemala. She has been with them for 2 years and they are unable to find her family. The story is at age 7 she was sent over the border with cayotes. They told her and another 9 yr old boy to run to the border agents. This he suspects was to allow them to get away knowing that border agents can't leave the children. He figures she was probably kid napped by drug runners and used to get a shipment over the border.

This issue is very complicated and solving one problem often creates others



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 05:06 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr

You have both problems right. Congress has abdicated its responsibility for enacting just laws, and Mexican drug cartels are making money hand over fist by charging for passage into the US. In that sense, we are abetting the drug cartels; our own actions at the border are acting to assist them with drug and human trafficking.

All for political representation. The US Census does not differentiate between legal and illegal residents, but their reports are used to determine representation.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 05:07 AM
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a reply to: scraedtosleep

Yes, I see Trump stuck between a rock and a hard place. Congress has essentially made it illegal to follow the law.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 05:08 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr

Yes, it's been well-documented that the current centers are using chain link containments.

You haven't been keeping up with the news, have you?

Try doing some research before you buy what the media is selling.

(Particularly as most of your "facts" are BS straight from Fox News.)



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 05:08 AM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft

At least you aren't being like Khan who played 3D chess with Spock. Spock would have completely destroyed you.




posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 05:14 AM
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Congress has abdicated its function in many cases, that is certain.

US Immigration law needs to be updated and streamlined, that is also certain.

The political party nonsense is our major issue, just as George Washington warned us.

And for whatever reason, legal or illegal, it is wrong to separate children from their parents and keep them in what amounts to prison camps.



posted on Jun, 21 2018 @ 05:15 AM
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originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Spock would have completely destroyed you.



I can agree with this sentiment, Spock is one extremely badass MFer......




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