Trump signs executive order to stop family separations at border

a reply to: Xcathdra

If they dont obtain a VISA before entering the US to claim asylum they are violating immigration and international law.

Oh. Catch 22 then? Or not.

To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status.

www.uscis.gov...

Sloppy and vague. They should fix that.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Xcathdra

You CANNOT house minors in adult detention facilities.

I agree.
Now show me where the Flores decision, or any decision prohibits the establishment of family detention facilities.

The requirement that adults and minors be separated and the requirement adults and minors not be placed into the same adult detention facility.

Why are you intentionally being obstinate on this point? It has been explained to you, the ruling has been shown to you, the law has been shown to you yet you keep coming back with the same asinine point that you cant support and has already been explained.

Minors and Adults, regardless of familial relationship, CANNOT be housed together.

Those entering the country lawfully and requesting refugee or asylum are NOT separated. Only those caught entering illegally. As I already noted if you come from a country that requires a visa to enter the US,m and you come to the US and enter a port of entry without you, you are illegally entering the US.

The moment the adult is arrested it is required to separate the minors.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Minors and Adults, regardless of familial relationship, CANNOT be housed together.

Flores was based on unaccompanied minors. It did not address minors with their parents.

Do you think that there is no difference under the law between an "adult" and a parent?

a reply to: Phage

Refugee

You must receive a referral to the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program (USRAP) for consideration as a refugee. For more information on the referral criteria, see the USRAP Consultations and Worldwide Processing Priorities page.

If you receive a referral, you will receive help filling out your application and then be interviewed abroad by a USCIS officer who will determine whether you are eligible for refugee resettlement. For more information about eligibility, see our

Asylum -

If you are eligible for asylum you may be permitted to remain in the United States. To apply for Asylum, file a Form I-589, Application for Asylum and for Withholding of Removal, within one year of your arrival to the United States. There is no fee to apply for asylum.

You may include your spouse and children who are in the United States on your application at the time you file or at any time until a final decision is made on your case. To include your child on your application, the child must be under 21 and unmarried. For more information see our Form I-589, Application for Asylum and for Withholding of Removal page.

a reply to: Xcathdra
Thanks. I know there is a difference.

If they dont obtain a VISA before entering the US to claim asylum they are violating immigration and international law.

Catch 22. If you enter illegally you're a criminal who, under the zero tolerance policy, will be prosecuted. You can apply for asylum after we take your kids away and prosecute you. (But don't bother because you won't qualify.)

To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status.

a reply to: Phage

Yup so you keep repeating while ignoring the parts that dont support your agenda.

You CANNOT place a minor in an adult detention facility.

When the parent s are arrested they are unaccompanied minors at that point.

You have been provided lal the info and the rulings. If you want to argue it take it to one of the courts overseeing the cases.

You cant place minors in adult detention facilities. You cant place minors and parents, in custody, in the same detention facility.

Any reason youi are ignoring the information? Is it solely to argue or are you desperately hoping you are somehow right?

In addition to the court ruling the NPR article from 2015 said THE SAME THING WHEN OBAMA ACTUALLY DID HAVE FAMILY DETENTION FACILITIES. THEY WERE SHUT DOWN BECAUSE THEY VIOLATED FLORES.


Obama Immigrant Detention Policies Under Fire June 12, 20155:57 PM ET

--Meanwhile, lawyers at the Los Angeles-based Center for Human Rights and Constitutional Law and Obama administration officials have just a few days left to settle a lawsuit challenging the detention facilities for more than 2,000 women with children, who came here during last summer's border surge. The families are being held in detention centers in Texas and Pennsylvania. A federal judge in Los Angeles issued a preliminary ruling finding that the administration is violating an 18-year-old court settlement, Flores v. Meese. The settlement requires the government to house migrant children in "the least restrictive environment" or release them to relatives. The judge gave federal officials and the Center for Human Rights and Constitutional Law time to reach an agreement on how to implement her ruling before she makes it final.

You cant do it - period.

a reply to: Phage

Apparently you dont. Or are you arguing that point because you were wrong on family detention facilities? If you are going to play you usual game let me know. Not really in a mood to see you ignore facts page after page while asking the same question that was answered.

Minors CANNOT be housed with adults in detention facilities.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Or are you arguing that point because you were wrong on family detention facilities?

So, Trump's EO is illegal.
Got it.

How did that LA agreement work out? Out of curiosity. Since we now know the EO is illegal.

In a decision late Friday roundly rejecting the administration’s arguments for holding the families, Judge Dolly M. Gee of Federal District Court for the Central District of California found that two detention centers in Texas that the administration opened last summer fail to meet minimum legal requirements of the 1997 settlement for facilities housing children.

Judge Gee also found that migrant children had been held in “widespread deplorable conditions” in Border Patrol stations after they were first caught, and she said the authorities had “wholly failed” to provide the “safe and sanitary” conditions required for children even in temporary cells.

The judge also found that the family detention centers in Texas were a “material breach” of provisions requiring that minors be placed in facilities that are not secured like prisons and are licensed to take care of children. The detention centers are secure facilities run by private prison contractors.

www.nytimes.com...

Seems it has more to do with conditions than family detention. I'm confident the Trump administration will do better. Aren't you?

originally posted by: Phage
So, Trump's EO is illegal.
Got it.

As I already said when you told me to work for TRump.

originally posted by: Phage
How did that LA agreement work out? Out of curiosity. Since we now know the EO is illegal.

Yeah the LA agreement is Flores vs Meese (1997) and is based on Flores vs. Reno (1993). Trumps EO is illegal just as Obama's housing of Minors with adults in adult detention facilities was illegal. Something I said 2 pages back that you wanted to argue.

originally posted by: Phage

In a decision late Friday roundly rejecting the administration’s arguments for holding the families, Judge Dolly M. Gee of Federal District Court for the Central District of California found that two detention centers in Texas that the administration opened last summer fail to meet minimum legal requirements of the 1997 settlement for facilities housing children.

Judge Gee also found that migrant children had been held in “widespread deplorable conditions” in Border Patrol stations after they were first caught, and she said the authorities had “wholly failed” to provide the “safe and sanitary” conditions required for children even in temporary cells.

Yup - hence the executive summary I provided for you that you apparently didnt read.

originally posted by: Phage

The judge also found that the family detention centers in Texas were a “material breach” of provisions requiring that minors be placed in facilities that are not secured like prisons and are licensed to take care of children. The detention centers are secure facilities run by private prison contractors.

www.nytimes.com...

Seems it has more to do with conditions than family detention. I'm confident the Trump administration will do better. Aren't you?

No it has to do with you cannot place minors in an adult detention facility. An adult detention facility is not any different than a city jail, county lockup or state or federal prison. Detention facilities with minors are different in the way the units are built/represented but the same principles are present (secured facility, restricted movement, restricted sex cohabitation, meals provided, recreation provided, education provided, daily head count). Since the minors are not being charged with a crime the rules for release are somewhat different.

Either way you have been provided with everything to explain Flores vs Reno, Flores vs Meese, the requirements under Flores, Asylum and Refugee status requirements, what happens when illegals enter illegally with children and what the status of the children become, the comparison to US domestic law wit regards to not being able to house US minors who are citizens in adult detention facilities with adults ,even if it is their parents.

You have argued in circles and failed to read the provided material.

Start there then come back if you have questions or points to raise.

a reply to: Xcathdra

No it has to do with you cannot place minors in an adult detention facility.

How about an actual family detention facility. One that meets the requirements of Flores?

The judge's decision was based on the fact that the conditions of the facilities did not meet the standards set by Flores. There is nothing in the decision which says that the children could not be with their mothers.

The judge also found that the family detention centers in Texas were a “material breach” of provisions requiring that minors be placed in facilities that are not secured like prisons and are licensed to take care of children.

a reply to: Phage

What part of you cannot house minors with adults do you not comprehend? There is no family detention facilities. Obama tried it and it was found illegal under Flores.

Judge Dolly M. Gee of Federal District Court for the Central District of California found that two detention centers in Texas that the administration opened last summer fail to meet minimum legal requirements of the 1997 settlement for facilities housing children.

Judge Gee also found that migrant children had been held in “widespread deplorable conditions” in Border Patrol stations after they were first caught, and she said the authorities had “wholly failed” to provide the “safe and sanitary” conditions required for children even in temporary cells.

also found...

in addition to...

Not only can you not house minors and adults, but the conditions for the minors did not meet the requirements in Flores.

Of which one of the requirements is you cant house minors in adult detention facilities, detention facilities for minors must be separate, detention facilities for minors must be segregated by sex....

a reply to: Xcathdra

Why do you insist that adults are the same thing as parents under the law?

Obama put those kids into deplorable conditions. That is what the judge said was illegal.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Xcathdra

Why do you insist that adults are the same thing as parents under the law?

Obama put those kids into deplorable conditions. That is what the judge said was illegal.

Yes and that was located in an adult detention facility.

What part of you cannot house minors with adults do you not comprehend? There is no family detention facilities. Obama tried it and it was found illegal under Flores.

Judge Dolly M. Gee of Federal District Court for the Central District of California found that two detention centers in Texas that the administration opened last summer fail to meet minimum legal requirements of the 1997 settlement for facilities housing children.

Judge Gee also found that migrant children had been held in “widespread deplorable conditions” in Border Patrol stations after they were first caught, and she said the authorities had “wholly failed” to provide the “safe and sanitary” conditions required for children even in temporary cells.

also found...

in addition to...

Not only can you not house minors and adults, but the conditions for the minors did not meet the requirements in Flores.

Of which one of the requirements is you cant house minors in adult detention facilities, detention facilities for minors must be separate, detention facilities for minors must be segregated by sex....

a reply to: Xcathdra

So, because Flores said nothing about accompanied children, it means parents must be separated from their children. Yeah, I guess that's what the administration wants you to think.

But about the actual requirements of Flores. They seem to be quite straight forward. Making that judge's decision easy.

The Flores Agreement established a nationwide policy for the detention, treatment, and release of UAC and recognized the particular vulnerability of UAC as minors while detained without a parent or legal guardian present. 18 It required that immigration officials detaining minors provide (1) food and drinking water, (2) medical assistance in emergencies, (3) toilets and sinks, (4) adequate temperature control and ventilation, (5) adequate supervision to protect minors from others, and (6) separation from unrelated adults whenever possible.

www.sfbar.org...

Seems they don't have to be separated from related adults at all. Are parents related adults?

a reply to: Phage

No it address it you are just being your typical self and refusing to understand it.

When the illegal immigrant parent/parents are arrested the kids are taken into custody, just as us citizens are arrested with their kids present their kids are also taken into custody.

In both cases the kids are kept in custody until such time as the other parent or legal guardian can come take responsibility for the kids. In both scenarios if no family member / guardian can come (in the case of illegal immigrants if no family is lawfully in the US) the minor remains in custody until such time as they can be placed with a host family.

Your really need to get this thru your head. If parents and kids enter illegally and get caught the parents are arrested and charged. An INS detention facility is no different than a jail and as such minors CANNOT be left with their parents in those facilities. Flores requires separate facilities separated by sex.

Family detention is illegal.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Your really need to get this thru your head. If parents and kids enter illegally and get caught the parents are arrested and charged.

I understand perfectly.
The administration thought its zero tolerance policy would convince people to not enter the US illegally and that taking their kids away would help do that. The administration thought that taking babies away would convince Congress to pay for a stupid wall. The administration thought that people would believe that the administration's hands were tied, that there was no room for discretion. The people called bull#.


The administration changed their mind.

a reply to: Phage

No, you dont and your post thus far have proven that without a doubt.
Illegals with their kids entering illegally can be arrested and the kids are required to be separated. They cannot be housed together as it violate Flores. Democrats refuse to recognize supreme court rulings when it doest fit their agenda and they did so again in this case by lying to the American people when they kept claiming this was a policy and not a law.

It is a law - 2 to be exact.
It is a supreme court ruling - Flores vs Reno.
It was applied again in Flores vs Meese.
The courts said no Adult minor detention facilities because it violated Flores requirements.

Trump signed an EO in violation of Flores. The EO will be challenged and thrown out as it also violates Meese. Democrats will then try to argue that minors should be released. Flores prohibits the wholesale unsupervised release of an illegal minor. Democrats will then argue they should be returned to their parents and the parents should be released with their kids and given court dates, using the courts to create a backdoor loophole to allow open borders - again.

People, such as yourself, will prattle on because you don't understand how rulings apply, arguing something that has already been decided - several times now. This administration, nor the Obama administration changed anything. Executive orders dont overrule US Supreme Court rulings nor laws in existence. Given the number of EO's that were undone by the courts during Obama for violating those exact rules should be a clue to you.

Do you have anything in topic because if all you want to do is argue over wording you can do it by yourself.

As I said the administration will issue this EO. It wont be the USDOJ filing the legal challenge though. It will be a well funded left wing group that does and they will make the exact same argument made when Obama did this and lost.

a reply to: Phage

How about an actual family detention facility. One that meets the requirements of Flores?

Wouldn't the only way to ensure it's family detention vs adult + juvenile detention be to separate each individual family? Wouldn't you have to basically make it a facility that required complete segregation of all families? Once the families intermingle it would cease to be a family detention center, and become a regular detention center with a populace consisting of not only adults and children, but also females a males.

originally posted by: mkultra11
Behold, Trump Derangement Syndrome at its finest.

Behold a defender of Nazi's.

originally posted by: network dude
this is officially the stupidest thing I have read on this site to date. Drop the mic, take a bow, and just walk away. I feel very good about this standing for a long time, and not coming close to being challenged.

An Award should be given.

Why is it so stupid? What's your rebuttal to open borders? Sacred of brown people being able to work in the US?