Quick citizenship but work for cheap

???
let me start by saying i dont know #. not about immigration housing or any of it.
just a normal(not really. actually pretty weird) guy that likes to mellow out after a day and think.

so

lots of illegals coming in. companies hiring illegals so there making wages and not paying taxes. financial assistance in whatever form.
not cool

"we're all for 'legal' immigration"... just do it the right way.
borders. founding fathers. the whole deal.

some facts are(based on no research) that people want to come here. some of them are asshole bangers. some are just trying to leach. some are trying to find a job and do right by their family. i think we can all agree on that.

so instead of zero tolerance in any direction how about a little gray area and a path to quick citizenship for the people that are on the level?

keep in mind i dont know how to do this logistically and i am just talking out loud. this is just a loose outline for a possible solution that needs to be tightened up a lot.

so the government builds x amount of decent apartments wherever. these are going to be for the instant citizen people.

so so john doe(-----santiago and his wife and kid want to make a life here. they trek here however and ring the bell at the ole ice office and declare theyre here to live the life.

lets get through finding out theyre legit. not criminals.
the gov says cool we have a job for you at this foundry. pay is 7 bucks an hour. here is the apartment complex yo u can live at. rent is 200 bucks. you pay taxes. you live there and work the foundry for 1 year. 18 months whatever. after 18 months youre a citizen and your pay gets bumped to the 1 year wage of that position and your rent goes up to going rate for that area.
stay in the apartment. move to a house. get a different job... whatever.

i was thinking about this because we always hear that they will do jobs Americans wont do. i see a revolving door of entry level positions at my foundry. it is constant. every now and then one lasts and starts moving up and around... not often

starting wage would be say 14 an hour. so the gov gets them the hookup with the foundry at 50% rate. sounds good to them. they save money and maybe, JUST MAYBE all the other people that work there might see a little trickle down to our pay for the savings.... that would be a good bonus.
employees are happy

the gov is happy cause they are paying taxes and spending money in the community. yeah they built the apartment complex but theyre getting a couple bucks a month, plus taxs, plus theyre not hooking up mr santiago with food stamps or keeping him jail.
seems like a saving there.
they are happy

mr santiago is happy cause he and his family have a decent apartment. he has a job and in a short years time he is going to be a citizen and get a 100% pay increase.


does this sound terrible cause i cant decide?

i dont feel like the low wage is taking advantage cause it is a mutual deal. full disclosure. worth it in the end
i feel like it would be taking advantage if only santiago didnt have a clue and thought everyone made his wage...

i just think instead of people going back and forth blaming the right/left or arguing but obama/but trump it would be much cooler to try and see if we can figure some # out.
of course it is not going to go anywhere further than this board. the gov is not going to read ATS and start implementing our suggestions but if nothing else it is fun to talk it out.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Its good to think outside the box but this kind or reminds me of working for the coal mine getting paid in coal dollars to shop at the company store....kind of

I would like to see more of a program for worker visas that last XX number of months based on company demands for labor. We can charge for these visas a hell of a lot cheaper than what a coyote will charge and the people are vetted and in the system so we do not get bad people and they do not get abused by bad people. They get more pay, pay taxes, human trafficking dries up as we increase the fines/punishment for people and companies that still want to do things illegally. The good news is all of this would pay for the wall and pretty much everything else for border protection. The kicker is if you overstay or abuse the system you will go on a list to not be eligible for future worker visas.

We give Trump his God Damn wall and get that over with while increasing other forms of security. We also over haul the immigration system so someone like my sister in-law who has been approved over 15 years ago is still not waiting.



Finally we most likely will need a path for the 15 to 20 million here already....

a reply to: TinySickTears

I'd rather see a path to citizenship along with more tax paying citizens. And there should be an inexpensive way to do it, and not take years. So I completely agree. And when that is the law, then we can enforce the border security as it should be. Like a military base.

a reply to: Xtrozero

for sure man
not saying this idea is awesome but it is awesome to have an idea
with work something like the OP would be doable.
i dont see why not

smarter people than me need to quit #ing around

a reply to: TinySickTears

So is your avatar Yolandi Visser?

originally posted by: Xtrozero
a reply to: TinySickTears

So is your avatar Yolandi Visser?

hell yeah ya pous

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: Xtrozero
a reply to: TinySickTears

So is your avatar Yolandi Visser?

hell yeah ya pous

Not bad for a 58 year old guy to guess that...

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: Xtrozero
a reply to: TinySickTears

So is your avatar Yolandi Visser?

hell yeah ya pous

Not bad for a 58 year old guy to guess that...

its most awesome


im 40

a damn sight younger than you.. hahahah
just messing

a reply to: TinySickTears

Some clarification for you:

- Some pay taxes. It depends on how legitimate they try to be. Working cash jobs to shoot up heroin doesn't require much. But having a family requires an identity, and with a SSN they are able to work (assuming that the employer isn't checking against the everify system...its not a requirement) and pay in taxes. They also recieve work benefits (insurance) and possibly social benefits (WIC, SNAP, etc). For all intent and purpose, they are "citizen actors", but not citizens (my own made up term). The only time they'll get caught is if someone checks their identity against everify.

- There are 2 types, in general, of "bad guy" that comes in: someone looking to establish in a larger city, and someone doing day work as a mule/smuggler, hitman, information runner, coyote, etc. If we can close up the pores in the border, we can restrict the second type considerably and possibly interdict more frequently on the latter

- The real labor impact is in construction and agriculture. Fabrication at a foundry likely isn't a primary target. But I get your point. I thinkt he hurdle will be the FLSA, which requires employers to pay a minimum wage. Not doing this consistently would create the same "hard feelings" issues that led to the civil war: southern border states would see a boom in profits/cash because we have greater access to a lower cost labor pool. Meanwhile, the rest of the states would be paying the rest of the social benefits that employees paid below minimum wage would require. Its not really very equitable, and would be certain to make people angry when Texas became more powerful than we already are. And don't get me started on California....

Good topic. I dig it. I think there are opportunities with hosted visas, kind of like a poor mans EB-5 program. But it'll never happen, until maybe 20 more years. At that point, our kids complete lack of procreation will require us to do what Europe is doing: import people from the south who are still breeding and creating more human capital (often needing to move some out due to crowding and economy). It'll be fun to watch us flip over again when that time comes.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Why would we be building them apartments and finding them jobs?

They should have that lined up before they get here.

They need to knock on the door ready to be a productive contributing member of society.

Not a drain on American taxpayers.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Careful there TST or you may be called out as a Nazi or some other such nonsense.

"Work sets you free" was a phrase, in German of course, written in plaques on the walls of Auschwitz.

I think the process should be quick. Very quick if you have legitimate documentation and are a family unit.

Another thing of note, and more tin foiley, is that nothing is done to curb the reasons for the exodus from country of origin. FFS we have interventions across the globe but silence down south. I'm not advocating for more US police actions on an international level but it's plain to see that the volume isn't equalised.

a reply to: TinySickTears

In Australia, we just get European and British backpackers to do our fruit picking and general slave labour farm work.

If they work a certain amount of time at some slave labour piece rate job, then they get their working visa stamped for an extra year or two... Their happy, cause they make a few bucks and can continue backpacking around the great southern land... and we're happy, cause its a good boost to the tourist industry and we have an abundant workforce, working in industries that the majority of Aussies would never do at such a low wage.

... Though, from a moral perspective... Its kind of unfair to give these jobs to first world foreigners, who are just doing it for an exotic holiday... when theirs plenty of hard working 3rd world foreigners, who really need these jobs, simply to keep their families from going hungry.

a reply to: watchitburn

maybe they should have but they dont.
how can a person have a legit job lined up when they are going to jump over?

the housing thing was to get people that are coming here a decent place to stay as a family with some #ing dignity and at the same time NOT getting on some sort of assistance program for however long.
i didnt chart # out but i would think that would save the government money. plus the small rent they charge.

its an idea man

a reply to: TinySickTears

I get what you're saying, but that's all still subsidized by taxes. It's only cheaper for them, all the rest of that cost would come back to us.

They need to be discouraged from making the trip in my opinion. We have too many problems to fix on our own without trying to fix everyone else's problems.

Some foreign worker programs work, but depends on the industry. If you bring in foreign workers at a lower rate, companies have been known to hire only foreign workers, because they're cheaper.

There's a bee operation near me that brings in foreign workers for half the year, at full pay, because there isn't enough workers in this area. They put them up in a house across the street from me. They are from Mexico, this year was a climate shock for them, they were brought into northern Canada during a prolonged cold winter, lol.
They're so quiet, I almost can't even tell they're there.

To do it for citizenship might be a good idea too, as long as the employer does it lawfully, ethically, and at a wage that's the same as others, or only a certain number in the company so other residents don't get screwed out of an available job.

Sure sounds nice, but we’ve all been to the DMV, or other government offices. Now imagine all the different languages coming across that border. And Mohammed Bin Laden shows up wanting six breaks a day to bow to the east, and Sanchez’s kids aren’t really his, he’s prostituting them out. Then Vladimir wants to move closer to DC for a job, and thousands and thousands of others flooding in.
Those aren’t all Mexican family’s coming across.
Yooo-Landi!