The situation on the southern border makes me sick.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Then I suppose it would behoove the left to actually sit down and hash out some immigration reform and gain some dignity back.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: MrRCflying

Don't believe any of it. They would use children to further their politics long before they care about actual children.

Note how those who are to blame are the ones maintaining the sovereignty of their country, and those who are caring for the children while their parents are punished for breaking federal laws. Meanwhile the people who risked the lives of their own children, who put them in this situation, are to face zero repercussions for doing so.

How many innocent immigrants actually seeking asylum for valid reasons do you think are an acceptable sacrifice in America's new stance on immigration/deportation (with the understanding that by denying them they we are sending them back to their deaths)? Is it worthwhile that we send 10 innocent immigrants back to hellhole's so that we catch the 1 who's trying to sneak into the USA for some nefarious purpose?

Should Mexico or South American countries remain perpetual hellholes?

Goodness no, but unfortunately many here on ATS (and a little under half the country) doesn't believe its the US's job to fix other places.

I, and many others I'm sure, would support the people rising up against the cartels and corruption.

I personally wouldn't be opposed to a hellfire missile somehow finding its way into the top floor of a cartel mansion. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

But what would you think the world's response would be in the US went into Mexico to help?

First, I'm heartened that you have the compassion/desire to help, but I think a lot more could be done to thwart the cartels without a hellfire than with one. What you're referencing is a mindset of making immigrant countries nicer places to live, so people won't want to leave (which is for the most part not a prerogative of this administration), and I actually agree that its the best solution. Do you not feel disenfranchised at least in this specific area that instead the US is withdrawing its support from these nations, effectively doing the opposite of what you've proposed?

No. It all has to start from within, when people have no other choice before them. Otherwise the US is just "interfering" again.

You are correct, insomuch as we can't enact a revolution for another country. However, what we can do, is have some compassion, and tell the family of 6 that shows up on our border starving and scared that they are welcome here, rather than tell them to go back and fight (and likely die) for their inalienable rights.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454
a reply to: Gryphon66

Then I suppose it would behoove the left to actually sit down and hash out some immigration reform and gain some dignity back.

What is there to hash out. Trumps negotiation style is 'I get everything, you get nothing and like it'. You solution is to have the Democrats just blank check sign everything Trump wants.....

a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

Yeah I guess I’m left of left
Oh well, sue me

originally posted by: Wardaddy454
a reply to: Gryphon66

Then I suppose it would behoove the left to actually sit down and hash out some immigration reform and gain some dignity back.

Dignity? LOL. In politics?

How about this. The Trump Administration can stop it's draconian policy of separating families at the border (because it's not the law, it's their policy). Then, Trump can give up on this stupid wall and support the changes in immigration policy that he claims to.

If the Wall is so generally desired ... he won't have any trouble getting that passed on its own .. .right?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: DBCowboy

Who on "the left" has called for Open Borders, Cowboy?

You made the claim, now back it up.

Or don't ... because it's pretty obvious you weren't telling the truth.

When you don't want to punish illegal aliens and allow unfettered access across the border it is a de facto admission that you want open borders.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: carewemust

The left wants to "decriminalize" illegal entry into the country.

They want open borders.


I just wish more would be honest about it instead of hiding behind children.

Who on "the left" wants this?

I'm probably "on the left" from your perspective, and I don't want any of that.

So ... why don't you be honest about who wants what you're claiming?

So now I have to check with you first since you speak for everyone on the left before making a post.

I'm on the left as well and Gryphon's opinions are for the most part mirrored in my own and all my liberal associates and acquaintances as well.

So how long have you wanted open borders and have hated America?

Zzzzzzzzzzz

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Wayfarer

The funny thing is ... they can't think far enough into their own strategy on this ... if the Democrats are for open borders, why did they pass this horrible law that requires kids to be taken away from their parents?

Derp.

"Never let a good crisis go to waste".

So they can claim the GOP did it, and then appear benevolent while grandstanding on the soapbox

a reply to: DBCowboy

You are sooo proud of that Hitler quote, aren't you?

Is it strange that it's usually self-described right-wingers that quote Hitler repeatedly?

Hmmm.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: DBCowboy

You are sooo proud of that Hitler quote, aren't you?

Is it strange that it's usually self-described right-wingers that quote Hitler repeatedly?

Hmmm.

but it actually accurately describes the leftists.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: carewemust

The left wants to "decriminalize" illegal entry into the country.

They want open borders.


I just wish more would be honest about it instead of hiding behind children.

Who on "the left" wants this?

I'm probably "on the left" from your perspective, and I don't want any of that.

So ... why don't you be honest about who wants what you're claiming?

So now I have to check with you first since you speak for everyone on the left before making a post.

I'm on the left as well and Gryphon's opinions are for the most part mirrored in my own and all my liberal associates and acquaintances as well.

So how long have you wanted open borders and have hated America?

About as long as you've been a stormfront member, boyo.

You said;

originally posted by: Wayfarer
I'll never tire of coming to ATS to find all the folks that gleefully endorse sequestering/imprisoning/harming children.

Its like a hyperbolic parody of evil.

If a law says 'zero tolerance, children must be imprisoned', is it better to follow the law, or follow your conscious?

Do any of y'all think GOD will reward you for following one over the other?

“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.”

― Adolf Hitler

So have you been a Nazi long? Or is it a new thing with you?

Like I said man, only one of us is giddy with the thought of kids being sent to concentration camps, and it aint me. I'm sure your stormfront buddies could fill you in more.

I'm not giddy.

You're the one who wants to destroy America.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: DBCowboy

You are sooo proud of that Hitler quote, aren't you?

Is it strange that it's usually self-described right-wingers that quote Hitler repeatedly?

Hmmm.

but it actually accurately describes the leftists.

I'm not sure how, "Yes, I, DBCowboy am I Nazi" accurately describes the left.....

a reply to: Gryphon66

We'll see once that democrat Paul Ryan is gone wont we

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Wayfarer

The funny thing is ... they can't think far enough into their own strategy on this ... if the Democrats are for open borders, why did they pass this horrible law that requires kids to be taken away from their parents?

Derp.

"Never let a good crisis go to waste".

So they can claim the GOP did it, and then appear benevolent while grandstanding on the soapbox

... and now you're just spouting silly rhetoric.

No Democrat is for open borders, if you have the names of Democrats who are, provide them.

Trump's Administration is separating kids at the border. That is not a legal requirement of the law.

SO, in actually, the GOP is doing it.

... and if anybody knows about grandstanding, it's Trump.

a reply to: Wayfarer

a reply to: Wayfarer

I think you're having trouble grasping what I'm asking, so I'll posit it another way:

Lets list the facts:
-Children are being forcibly removed from their parents while their immigration status is determined
-This is occurring whether they walk into the immigration office of their own volition or being brought in by ICE/customs

What you have intimated so far is that there is nothing wrong with separating families (even when they haven't committed a crime), since those that walked in and asked for Asylum probably aren't going to get it anyways, and therefore have entered illegally (by proxy) and deserve to have their children taken from them.

Well yes, if children are being separated from parents, their parents jailed after entering a legal point of entry, that is unjust. Can you show me an example of this?

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: DBCowboy

You are sooo proud of that Hitler quote, aren't you?

Is it strange that it's usually self-described right-wingers that quote Hitler repeatedly?

Hmmm.

but it actually accurately describes the leftists.

I'm not sure how, "Yes, I, DBCowboy am I Nazi" accurately describes the left.....

So you admit you want open borders.

how interesting.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: carewemust

The left wants to "decriminalize" illegal entry into the country.

They want open borders.


I just wish more would be honest about it instead of hiding behind children.

Who on "the left" wants this?

I'm probably "on the left" from your perspective, and I don't want any of that.

So ... why don't you be honest about who wants what you're claiming?

So now I have to check with you first since you speak for everyone on the left before making a post.

I'm on the left as well and Gryphon's opinions are for the most part mirrored in my own and all my liberal associates and acquaintances as well.

So how long have you wanted open borders and have hated America?

About as long as you've been a stormfront member, boyo.

You said;

originally posted by: Wayfarer
I'll never tire of coming to ATS to find all the folks that gleefully endorse sequestering/imprisoning/harming children.

Its like a hyperbolic parody of evil.

If a law says 'zero tolerance, children must be imprisoned', is it better to follow the law, or follow your conscious?

Do any of y'all think GOD will reward you for following one over the other?

“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.”

― Adolf Hitler

So have you been a Nazi long? Or is it a new thing with you?

Like I said man, only one of us is giddy with the thought of kids being sent to concentration camps, and it aint me. I'm sure your stormfront buddies could fill you in more.

I'm not giddy.

You're the one who wants to destroy America.

You're the one who thinks NOT separating immigrant children from their parents and locking them up in cages is destroying America.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454
a reply to: Gryphon66

We'll see once that democrat Paul Ryan is gone wont we

Which Democrats support open borders?

Who supports The Wall on it's own merits?

You're making the claims ... just tell us.