Coal isn't great again...yet another Trump failure

a reply to: Gryphon66

Operating fees? A tax by a different name? The connotation of “tax”, is that what you’re getting at?

Taxes should be centered around legit market inefficiencies. Pollution is a clear by-product of a market inefficiency (i.e. too much coal was being burnt in the 70s-90s).

At any rate, this is a thread about coal, and it’s beyond apparent that there was/is a market inefficiency in the power generation market. Grover Norquist can’t factually refute that.

originally posted by: BeefNoMeat
a reply to: Gryphon66

Operating fees? A tax by a different name? The connotation of “tax”, is that what you’re getting at?

Taxes should be centered around legit market inefficiencies. Pollution is a clear by-product of a market inefficiency (i.e. too much coal was being burnt in the 70s-90s).

At any rate, this is a thread about coal, and it’s beyond apparent that there was/is a market inefficiency in the power generation market. Grover Norquist can’t factually refute that.

Taxes should be centered around use fees. But, as you say, that's a different conversation.

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Irishhaf

I wonder if there is a distinction to be made between popularity and cult behavior?

Fair point..

There are people that attacked anyone critical of Obama for 8 years, saying they were racist because the only reason to have a problem with him was obviously race related.

So honestly whats the difference between him and the people that defended everything he did and the people that excuse everything Trump does?

Keep in mind, in my opinion if actual evidence comes up concerning wrong doing involving Trump directly then by all means impeach and prosecute.

The whole thing turns on persepctive, that's for certain. Obama was wildly popular at the beginning of his first term, no doubt about that.

Some criticisms of Obama were racist. No getting around that either. Some, not all.

In the case of anyone who "defends everything someone does" there are no differences, in my opinion.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Gotcha. Fair enough.

Yup, one that is never really contested on the merits...storms have moved out and there’s some herbicide (another market inefficiency — non-point source pollution from farms) that needs to be applied...like yesterday!

Have a good one

originally posted by: BeefNoMeat
a reply to: Gryphon66

Gotcha. Fair enough.

Yup, one that is never really contested on the merits...storms have moved out and there’s some herbicide (another market inefficiency — non-point source pollution from farms) that needs to be applied...like yesterday!

Have a good one

You as well!

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: shooterbrody

I'm not the idiot seperating kids from their mothers while jabbing about freedom and democracy. Nobody said that he is Hitler, or Stalin for that matter. But there's a development towards straight fascism in combination with a cult of personality.

Make brown coal great again! How fitting.

oh so now it is blaming the current admin for laws past before they were in office, unless you can source those laws passed since trump was elected....i will wait.....
so the correct statement should compare obama and hitler then???

what a fing joke

a reply to: JinMI

Don't mean to ruin your 30 seconds of hate and invade your bubble but there are more key components to this article.

I can't speak for the OP but for me and I suspect many others, the eye rolling over the pandering to/with coal has nothing to do with hate and much more do with the absurdity of it.

Coal doesn't exactly have a bright future. As coal plants have shut down, they're not being replaced with more coal plants. This isn't a new trend. As first natural gas started to account for a larger share of generation and in the last decade+, non-hydro renewables, coal is simply being phased out.

The natural gas gains go back to the early 90's after a post-70's drop. Every year billions are being poured into renewables. They're just going to continue to erode coal's share and eventually, it's a safe bet that renewables will begin to outpace gas.

So why does it make good sense for anyone to yammer about "I love coal! Derp derp!" and pander to "saving" coal jobs (aka more and more subsidization). I think it was John Oliver who first compared it to trying to "save" Blockbuster, which at its height employed more people than the coal industry.

It's a legitimately stupid policy and worthy of criticism. And yes, it sucks for people in coal country but it's like arguing that we should have propped up the horse and buggy in the face of automobiles or the oil lamp industry with the advent of electric lighting.

So why the hell does it play well to the Right? Decades of fossil fuel propagandizing by an industry that's disproportionately in bed with right-wing politicians? The conservative aversion to change?

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: gariac

Don't mean to ruin your 30 seconds of hate and invade your bubble but there are more key components to this article.

Um, its Two minutes of Hate, sir!

a reply to: DJW001

Imho
Some people think Trump 's was voted in for his rhetoric and specific phrases or ideas that "cranked their tractor", or got them all fired up for an overnight economic social revival.

To classify the majority of Trump voters as ignorant; " imna' get ma' job back and buy me a dodge cause TRUMP!" Type people is to underestimate the movement, and intelligence of a good portion of America.

Trump was guaranteed change. Clinton was a continuance of status quo.

To insinuate a population watching their lives, their families futures, retirement, quality of life and sense of community constantly degrade....to think that they didn't research, read, think, and make a conscious choice is again to underestimate.

A cult of personality is not what is driving this movement. Its a verifiable change towards a country better for its citizens. Its been too long since America's government has given a damn about the people who not only vote them in, but provide their salaries.

Coal. It'll be used as long as it us economically viable, unless of course someone swoops in with the "bad dog! Coal is dirty, tax it! Bsn it. Now gimmie some research/dev subsidies". Oh wait Oba...

Ignorant cult.
Ignorant voters expecting miracles.
I don't think so.

Educated informed people with a different opinion, quite possibly.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Ah ... reminds me of Fox News and the Obama years ...

/sigh

originally posted by: Lykan

A cult of personality is not what is driving this movement. Its a verifiable change towards a country better for its citizens. Its been too long since America's government has given a damn about the people who not only vote them in, but provide their salaries.

In my opinion, you were doing really well up until this point. Your critique of generalized, absolute statements is valid.

"Hope and change" has been sold before.

I suggest you look beyond this side or that side at who and what is driving these messages ... because they're all the same and they're all lies.

Follow the money.

a reply to: shooterbrody

oh so now it is blaming the current admin for laws past before they were in office

Lies, more lies and some Obummer Bollocks. Awesome!
But... but... but what about Hillary?

originally posted by: Lykan
a reply to: DJW001

Imho
Some people think Trump 's was voted in for his rhetoric and specific phrases or ideas that "cranked their tractor", or got them all fired up for an overnight economic social revival.

To classify the majority of Trump voters as ignorant; " imna' get ma' job back and buy me a dodge cause TRUMP!" Type people is to underestimate the movement, and intelligence of a good portion of America.

Trump was guaranteed change. Clinton was a continuance of status quo.

To insinuate a population watching their lives, their families futures, retirement, quality of life and sense of community constantly degrade....to think that they didn't research, read, think, and make a conscious choice is again to underestimate.

A cult of personality is not what is driving this movement. Its a verifiable change towards a country better for its citizens. Its been too long since America's government has given a damn about the people who not only vote them in, but provide their salaries.

Coal. It'll be used as long as it us economically viable, unless of course someone swoops in with the "bad dog! Coal is dirty, tax it! Bsn it. Now gimmie some research/dev subsidies". Oh wait Oba...

Ignorant cult.
Ignorant voters expecting miracles.
I don't think so.

Educated informed people with a different opinion, quite possibly.

Funny. That is the same sort of nonsense I heard from people when I asked them why they voted for Obama.

Trump is Hope and Change 2.0.

Sad that so many would fall for it, again, right after Obama...

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Oh so now these laws were not in place and enforced by the previous administration?

what a joke...

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Lykan
a reply to: DJW001

Imho
Some people think Trump 's was voted in for his rhetoric and specific phrases or ideas that "cranked their tractor", or got them all fired up for an overnight economic social revival.

To classify the majority of Trump voters as ignorant; " imna' get ma' job back and buy me a dodge cause TRUMP!" Type people is to underestimate the movement, and intelligence of a good portion of America.

Trump was guaranteed change. Clinton was a continuance of status quo.

To insinuate a population watching their lives, their families futures, retirement, quality of life and sense of community constantly degrade....to think that they didn't research, read, think, and make a conscious choice is again to underestimate.

A cult of personality is not what is driving this movement. Its a verifiable change towards a country better for its citizens. Its been too long since America's government has given a damn about the people who not only vote them in, but provide their salaries.

Coal. It'll be used as long as it us economically viable, unless of course someone swoops in with the "bad dog! Coal is dirty, tax it! Bsn it. Now gimmie some research/dev subsidies". Oh wait Oba...

Ignorant cult.
Ignorant voters expecting miracles.
I don't think so.

Educated informed people with a different opinion, quite possibly.

Funny. That is the same sort of nonsense I heard from people when I asked them why they voted for Obama.

Trump is Hope and Change 2.0.

Sad that so many would fall for it, again, right after Obama...

BINGO!!!

DING-DING-DING!!!

LOL, that's absolutely it. It's the same steaming pile served on the same fake china plate.

(Edged in gold paint, in Trump's case.)

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Ah ... reminds me of Fox News and the Obama years ...

/sigh

I wouldnt know, but it is to be expected of the MSM. Its their Job.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Ah ... reminds me of Fox News and the Obama years ...

/sigh

I wouldnt know, but it is to be expected of the MSM. Its their Job.

Zero complaints from me on that point: the control structures of the multnational corporations is one of your points I absolutely agree with.

Trump doesn't really think things through. His twitter is evidence of that. People still buy into QANON , thinking that trump is some 4-d chess player. I think Trump is really just this simple.

a reply to: TrueBrit

and the people you "know" speak on behalf of all of us and our experiences?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: JinMI

Why should anyone stop JinMI?

MAGA folk aren't going to stop being fantastically wrong about everything in the world, so why should DerBeobachter stop saying things they don't agree with?

Its not a popular view around here, but there again, what is popular is not always right, and what is right is not always popular.

So where do you believe you fall in at?