Coal isn't great again...yet another Trump failure

a reply to: DJW001

If they did not commit a crime, why are they being punished?

Last I checked, Illegal Immigration was still illegal. Hence why people who immigrate to this country legally don't have this problem.

Don't worry: once you get used to treating children like cattle their lives become subject to cost benefit analysis... and culling becomes a viable option.

You do know those pictures of the kids in cages was from 2014 right? Who was president then? Why were none of you all butthurt about it then? Cos' Trump and all.

Besides, Trump is merely enforcing the immigration laws laid out by Hussein. Enforcing the laws is the mans job.

That is a lie, of course. But that's off topic.

www.whitehouse.gov...

The President is responsible for implementing and enforcing the laws written by Congress and, to that end, appoints the heads of the federal agencies, including the Cabinet.

Get your facts straight before you accuse people of lying. I don't know what makes you people think the world cares about your feelings.

The Nazis were great for some Germans for a little while,

Of course, any Trump bashing thread is not complete without a reference to Hitler, proving you know absolutely nothing about history, or civics.

Sounds to me the that the company isn’t so much looking at the price of coal so much as hedging against future administrations declaring a new war on coal.

Electric generation is mostly the same, boiling water to produce steam to turn the turbine blades. In theory it could be done with magnifying glasses or candles. Hydroelectric is using water, gravity and pressure from constriction of flow to spin the turbine with a water wheel. In theory you could also do the same with compressed air.

Not sure of the mechanics of it but the tides on the shore could be used to work a sort of bellows to compress a column of air to spin the generator. Or a bunch of kids wearing shoes with piezoelectric crystals hooked to LED bulbs running around in dark room full of solar panels to power an induction coil to heat a tub of water to make the steam...that might break the power station as a group of kids running amok might generate too much power.

But I would say current costs versus alternatives and future uncertainty. Why maintain and upgrade what might be eliminated tomorrow when you can covert it for less today?

2017 saw the largest increase in coal production since 2001.

It's risen again in 2018.

“What we’re hearing from our leadership, as well as the rank and file, is we’ve got a future,” said Luke Popovich, a spokesman for the National Mining Association. “We’re back in business.” No one is naïve enough to think that coal will return anytime soon to its glory days, when it fueled more than half of the nation’s electricity generation, employment reflected robust production, and coal was fetching high prices in overseas steelmaking centers such as Brazil, China, Japan and South Korea, Popovich said.

But after eight years of President Obama and environmental policies the industry considered hostile, coal leaders believe Trump is putting them back on a level playing field with natural gas and other cleaner forms of energy. “What has happened, I think, is it has given the industry and investors the assurance that at least their government is not going to discourage production and we only have to deal with the marketplace,” Popovich said. “Instead of having to fight natural gas, subsidized renewals and our own government, now we are at least free to compete in the marketplace. That has been the big change as far as we’re concerned.”

Chalk up another win for Trump.


Cherry pick the losers all you like if it helps you feed your hatred.

originally posted by: UKTruth
2017 saw the largest increase in coal production since 2001.
Cherry pick the losers all you like if it helps you feed your hatred.

What was that actual increase then UK?

It wouldn't hurt to provide a source for your claim.

Also, the continual emotional appeal inherent in "feed your hatred" is patently absurd.

a reply to: Gryphon66

EIA expects total 2017 U.S. coal production to be 773 million short tons (MMst), 45 MMst higher than in 2016 and the largest year-over-year tonnage increase since 2001. Coal prices across the United States rose as well, especially for Central Appalachian coal. An increase in demand for U.S. coal exports more than offset a slight decline in U.S. coal consumption, contributing to higher coal production in 2017.

www.eia.gov...

Also, emotion is all the left and Trump haters seem to be operating on. There will be no need to reference it when a serious and thoughtful thread is written on such subjects. They are few and far between., Until then, responding with the emotional triggers of the haters in mind is clearly appropriate. If people are going to act like children then they will be treated as such.

OP proves ONE thing

"IF" this was true, it illustrates the damage and long term effects of a horrible 8 year run by the previous Administration that attacked this industry.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: TrueBrit

Some folks care about their credibility and integrity. The complete fallacy that is the Trump=Hitler is the sure fire way to plunge that credibility into the dirt.

Similar to this quote:

MAGA folk aren't going to stop being fantastically wrong about everything in the world,...

Demonstrably false as well.

He didn't say Trump is Hitler. He implied it's a cult of personality like Hitler was, placating the masses with one hand while doing something else with the other. Pointing out parallels that stymied another country for a long time in the past -- i.e learning from it even if not a carbon copy -- should be considered wise, not last-ditch.

You're smarter than this, Jin, you know not every mention of a historical baddie equals "But they're essentially XYZ!"

a reply to: UKTruth

So the increase you're touting is 45 MMst over 2016? LOL. What is that about 5%

Arfificially stimulated by the government pouring millions into the industry?

Right. Well done.

An appeal to emotion is always fallacious, not matter where it comes from.

/shrug

a reply to: JinMI

Did I say that he WAS Hitler?

NO.

How about, you read what I actually said, and if you have any counterpoint to any of it having actually read what I wrote, rather than coming up with an argument I am not making, and trying to answer that, THEN comment again, and see where we get from there? Seem fair to you?

originally posted by: MetalThunder
OP proves ONE thing

"IF" this was true, it illustrates the damage and long term effects of a horrible 8 year run by the previous Administration that attacked this industry.

How long has coal production been falling again?

Seems like it was longer than 2009-2016. According to a post above, it has been falling since at least 2001.

Are you sure it was the Obama Adminsitrations fault?

That doesn't seem very reasonable.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

So the increase you're touting is 45 MMst over 2016? LOL. What is that about 5%

Arfificially stimulated by the government pouring millions into the industry?

Right. Well done.

An appeal to emotion is always fallacious, not matter where it comes from.

/shrug

Well, it's actually just over 6%, like I said the biggest YoY increase since 2001.
Hardly terrible news or a broken promise as the over emotional OP claims.

a reply to: UKTruth

Lol .. so it is 6.1% Beg pardon, I did the calculation in my head.

Considering the amount of money the government has poured into the industy, it's quite reasonable to be disappointed with the results.

The OP is hardly focusing on this one element, eh? That's what you chose to cherry-pick. LOL.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: MetalThunder
OP proves ONE thing

"IF" this was true, it illustrates the damage and long term effects of a horrible 8 year run by the previous Administration that attacked this industry.

How long has coal production been falling again?

Seems like it was longer than 2009-2016. According to a post above, it has been falling since at least 2001.

Are you sure it was the Obama Adminsitrations fault?

That doesn't seem very reasonable.

It rose to a record high the year in which Obama took office - it's just the YoY increases back then were not as high as Trumps first year in office.
Over the 8 years of Obama, production fell by 26% - the biggest decrease on record.

a reply to: UKTruth

I don't need to remind you that correlation doesn't equal causation.

Coal is not a sustainable resource really, is it?

Are you faulting businesses for moving on to better solutions?

a reply to: Nyiah

Lining up similarities that apply to leaders of countries in general throughout history for good or ill would make more sense. However that was not the case and still isn't.

The name is used to invoke the emotion. I can see it for what it is even through the claim of less than par intelligence.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: MetalThunder
OP proves ONE thing

"IF" this was true, it illustrates the damage and long term effects of a horrible 8 year run by the previous Administration that attacked this industry.

How long has coal production been falling again?

Seems like it was longer than 2009-2016. According to a post above, it has been falling since at least 2001.

Are you sure it was the Obama Adminsitrations fault?

That doesn't seem very reasonable.

I’m not that old — born in the ‘80s — and I remember Acid Rain. I remember being in the 3rd/4th grade and seeing a pic of the Statue of Liberty with a caption mentioning the discoloration was due to SO2 pollution.

Point being: coal died in the 1990’s when the Acid Rain Program (arguably, the single most cost-effective environmental reg EVER) kicked off and operations realized it was much CHEAPER to comply by taking these plants off-line and newer, better performing, and most importantly, cheaper generation technologies (i.e. methane) were pursued.

So it’s George H.W. Bush’s fault.

a reply to: TrueBrit

See my response to Nyjah.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

I don't need to remind you that correlation doesn't equal causation.

Coal is not a sustainable resource really, is it?

Are you faulting businesses for moving on to better solutions?

Technology does not keep pace in all countries.
You'll note that the increase in production is driven by exports.
As demand for alternative forms of energy rises and is viable to build/distribute worldwide then coal will die.
There is no need to kill growth in the interim.
Obama pulled the trigger way too early and hurt a lot of people in the process.

a reply to: JinMI

So you would prefer that Trump be compared with whom ... Stalin? Pol Pot? Mao?

Ivana once said that Trump kept a copy of "Mein Kampf" on the bedside table ... also, Trump is famous for his dynamic speeches in rallies ...

a reply to: UKTruth

Hmmm ... that sounds a lot like partisan hand-waving.

Show us some statistics and numbers.