Action needed to tackle stalled social mobility

Came across this today. No surprise that there's little to no social mobility in the US. Anyone who lives here already knows this unless you are a boomer then you lived in a totally different America than the rest of us. You know, remember when you used to be able to hop into the back of a pickup truck and go to work with your buddies without getting pulled over and fined or get caught drinking and driving and just told to get picked up and go home?

Not the same America.

(not advocating for drinking and driving just pointing out an anecdotal change in experience from the 1970's and 80's to now)

OECD

15/06/2018 - As income inequality has increased since the 1990s, social mobility has stalled, meaning that fewer people at the bottom have moved up while the richest have largely kept their fortunes. This has severe social, economic and political consequences, according to a new OECD report. A Broken Social Elevator? How to Promote Social Mobility says that given current levels of inequality and intergenerational earnings mobility, it could take at least five generations or 150 years for the child of a poor family to reach the average income, on average across OECD countries. This ranges from just two to three generations in the Nordic countries to nine generations or more in some emerging economies. One in three children with a low earning father will also have low earnings, while for most of the other two-thirds upward mobility is limited to the neighbouring earnings group.

Yeah well Nordic countries have very strong union and labor presence in government that actually works for them unlike the majority of American based unions that are fleecing the people they "serve" for big paychecks and nice cars and political favors for encouraging votes to particular parties.

Income mobility was a reality for many people born between 1955 and 1975 from low-educated parents but it has stagnated for those born after 1975.

Yeah we know, but they worked super hard remember??? You are just a lazy slob.

Not sure what the solution is anymore but I know in America getting the government more involved in our lives is NOT the answer. The government is useless corrupt and arrogant. It can't even maintain the roads let alone manage anything else.

originally posted by: toysforadults
Not sure what the solution is anymore but I know in America getting the government more involved in our lives is NOT the answer. The government is useless corrupt and arrogant. It can't even maintain the roads let alone manage anything else.

another main difference between america and other countries that are not suffering from this as badly is the government of those countries is not totally beholden to the corporate interests and/or the 1%. there are controls set much more firmly on how terribly corporations can screw over the rest of the country. there are limits placed on how much greater a CEO's salary can be than their lowest-paid worker.

so the government does need to be more involved... and less corrupt, and focused on the actual welfare of the people.

i don't know any more than you how we can effect those changes, unfortunately... but that's a big part of why things have gone so wrong in the US.

a reply to: fiverx313

limits placed on how much greater a CEO's salary can be than their lowest-paid worker.

I've heard the theory that mandating a ratio between CEO and worker pay will work, sounds good to me but not 100% convinced

that's a big part of why things have gone so wrong in the US.

it's going to get worse, you go to 1 neighborhood and you can get shot, go a few streets up and the it's like being in a different country

it's only going to get so bad before they climb over that wall and bring their pain to the other streets

My morning walk has a stretch for about 1km parallel to the freeway,every morning there they are stretched for kilometres going at a crawl to head to their little cubicles to generate shareholder income and put bonuses into their supervisors hands and meaningless trophies on corporate walls.

I saw a sticker on a car one day,Id rather be fishing and I asked myself then why aren't you,you might have to start as a deckhand,you might have to clean fish to save for your own boat but if you pursue your passion you'll get there.

The corporate world may be some peoples passion and thats fair enough but if its not then you are the master of your own destiny.As for running the show there is a club and most of us are not in it,but wouldn't you rather be a dive instructor on a tropical island?

a reply to: toysforadults

Not sure what the solution is anymore but I know in America getting the government more involved in our lives is NOT the answer.

Trust me.........I know.......the only solution for "Americans" (whatever that means anymore) is education and getting the skills and language skills necessary to be able to work anywhere in the world. Othewise, you're pretty much stuck like chuck working minimum wage jobs, living under a bridge and showering at the Y.

a reply to: toysforadults

"it's only going to get so bad before they climb over that wall and bring their pain to the other streets"

And that's only a matter of time! Actually, its already happening in parts of the country. MS-13 membership requirements include one where the aspiring member participate in a home invasion. They don't do that in the poorer neighborhoods........they do that in the upper middle class neighborhoods. (Big problem in Harris County, TX) and no, the cops don't show up very quickly.......they don't want to get caught in the cross-fire.

a reply to: toysforadults

see....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: toysforadults
Came across this today. No surprise that there's little to no social mobility in the US. Anyone who lives here already knows this unless you are a boomer then you lived in a totally different America than the rest of us. You know, remember when you used to be able to hop into the back of a pickup truck and go to work with your buddies without getting pulled over and fined or get caught drinking and driving and just told to get picked up and go home?

Not the same America.

(not advocating for drinking and driving just pointing out an anecdotal change in experience from the 1970's and 80's to now)

OECD

15/06/2018 - As income inequality has increased since the 1990s, social mobility has stalled, meaning that fewer people at the bottom have moved up while the richest have largely kept their fortunes. This has severe social, economic and political consequences, according to a new OECD report. A Broken Social Elevator? How to Promote Social Mobility says that given current levels of inequality and intergenerational earnings mobility, it could take at least five generations or 150 years for the child of a poor family to reach the average income, on average across OECD countries. This ranges from just two to three generations in the Nordic countries to nine generations or more in some emerging economies. One in three children with a low earning father will also have low earnings, while for most of the other two-thirds upward mobility is limited to the neighbouring earnings group.

Yeah well Nordic countries have very strong union and labor presence in government that actually works for them unlike the majority of American based unions that are fleecing the people they "serve" for big paychecks and nice cars and political favors for encouraging votes to particular parties.

Income mobility was a reality for many people born between 1955 and 1975 from low-educated parents but it has stagnated for those born after 1975.

Yeah we know, but they worked super hard remember??? You are just a lazy slob.

Not sure what the solution is anymore but I know in America getting the government more involved in our lives is NOT the answer. The government is useless corrupt and arrogant. It can't even maintain the roads let alone manage anything else.

Okay so the problem is Unions - Unions that work in other countries quite well for their members, but US unions are bad and exploiting their members for what ... exactly?

How does - the drinking story have anything to do with Unions?

You know why 'nordic' and other 1st world countries have strong unions? No - it's not that they are less corrupt or 'stronger' it's because people support them, understanding the importance, and they have set up laws that require Union presence on the Boards of businesses.

All human organizations have a certain degree of corruption - people being selfish beings and all that. But you can set up systems that don't incentivize corruption and self-interest. The US tends to build it's body of laws based on the principle of 'loop holes' which incentivizes corruption, cheating and greed.

First thing is stop Coperate welfare.

If the big corps where allowed to go belly up it would allow a number of small buisness to rise to take there place.

It's like a forest with massive trees, a few big trees block out the sunlight and prevent anything underneath from growing.
You then get a natural forest fire that destroys them and a few years later the entire area is teaming with a multitude of new life.

Look at Iceland. They didn't bail the banks out and they didn't let the bankers off the hook. First year yeah was economic carnage but they ended up coming out of recession before all the other country's and now how a very healthy dynamic economy.

a reply to: toysforadults

If we don't limit the amount corporations are alowed to take from society, their greed will know no end. We will become slaves to what is best for their profits without any reguard for society. We are nearly at that point already.

It's a simple concept really.

How much wealth can a man on an Island by himself make? He can generate nothing except what he needs for himself.

Why is it that once that man enters society he is allowed to take as much as he wants? Is it not society that deserves the credit for generating his wealth? Doesn't the society have a right to say what percentage of wealth any one man can have?

If anyone doesn't agree that a responsibile society should monitor the flow of currency to elimate destabilization and inflation, then maybe they should spend some time on that island. Maybe then they could appreciate that any wealth is generated at all.

The 1% do not create jobs as some would have you imagine. Demand creates jobs. Historically the 1% are likely to stifle competition which is the opposite of advancement. Most of our technological breakthroughs come from those outside of the 1% who are looking to make something of themselves.

It is the 1% that attempts to monopolize industries and create a controlled suplly model that generates more profits while the bottom percentile does without.

We used to have controlled capitalism. Banking regulations and anti trust laws that protected us from these giant corporate blood suckers. Those laws have been done away with through globalization.

It was a controlled system that generated the greatest amount of wealth and individual prosperity that world has ever seen. When society gave up that control to the 1% we sold society to the highest bidder and the middle class has been decimated by the greed of the 1% ever since.

DP

a reply to: toysforadults

...Not sure what the solution is anymore but I know in America getting the government more involved in our lives is NOT the answer. The government is useless corrupt and arrogant.

^^^^THIS !!!!!^^^^ times ELEVENTY BAZILLION!!

I'm no historian, economist, or social psychologist.

The way it looks from my chair:

America had a (rare?) prosperous phase that gave the illusion of ready upward social mobility because a lot of people enjoyed upward economic mobility, but I think it was just that. True "belonging" in a social class is more than money. It's about behavior and mannerisms, how you spend your time...how you spend that money. Enter the narrative: if you want to secure your future and climb the social ladder--this was an explicit promise to my generation--earn a college degree. This caused a rift between the boomer, who was largely successful in spite of no college degree at all or attending a trade program, and the stereotypical millennial, who was educated too fast for their natural, god-given curiosity and intellect to catch up, who were only ever really doing what they were told was best by their progenitors and now feel fleeced and lost in life. (Grossly over-generalized.)

But it's not a unique rift; the boomer-millennial dynamic is part of a larger four-part cycle that repeats in history. One generation values money and possessions above all, the next sees the error in that and values time above all. It's not a question of right or wrong, it's the natural order of things. My generation is going a different direction than the one before, and my daughter's will do the same. Google the Strauss-Howe theory of generation turnings, generational archetypes. It's not without criticism but it's thought-provoking. But I'm going off-topic.

Believe me, as a millenial business owner, I could use a little bit more of that upward economic mobility enjoyed by my father. I think I'll get there though. No need to panic.

a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

Ive particpate in some forth turning threads and listened to read some material relating to it not sure if I'm a believer

We are in a totally unique to humanity situation thats completely u predictable

a reply to: toysforadults

Action needed to tackle stalled social mobility

That's what the entrepreneurial spirit and free enterprise is for. Find a product or service that people want and fill the void.

Individual capitalism is still operating in America thru your time and hard work. Start your own corporation, the opportunities are endless for the person willing to put in the effort. I know it's a cliche but "if I can do it, anyone can"

A good education, ability to express yourself properly and networking can make the path easier....

a reply to: toysforadults

Not sure what the solution is anymore

You have an unhealthy obsession with negativity and the perceived injustices. Its been pointed out to you in many of your threads that you have options.

You still have the right to move to a more socially just Nation and leave the USA.

Where the wealth is spread more equitably.

What's really stopping you?

a reply to: toysforadults

We are in a totally unique to humanity situation thats completely u predictable

Nothing unique about it. The same happened in the 1930's and late 80's.

Be prepared to pick up bargains after the next crash.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

what a boring post, you know nothing about me admit it then go bother someone else

The days of starting in the mail room and working your way up to CEO are over. Not without substantial education along the way anyway. Many lower and middle level jobs have been eliminated and with them went the stepping stones to the next level.

Back in the day there were five separate levels of draftsman. Then three levels of Designer. Then Layout and Checker. All that before you reach anyone with an engineering degree. Technology took care of that chain of progression. Employers today want an Engineer with CAD experience. Intuitive modeling software will allow an Engineer to do the job of all those people, in less time, with fewer errors. The software is smart enough now to also create a Bill of Material, generate a parts list, and estimate the cost. That represents a lot of jobs that used to be. Where once you could start off with just some high school drafting classes you now need an Engineering degree with CAD skills too.

I agree with OP. Unions in this country are little more than criminal as opposed to other countries. In this country unions make a big deal about how many jobs they create. The problem is unions don't create jobs. They take them from other hard working Americans and give them to people who pay kickbacks in the form of union dues. The original first priority of unions was to protect employees from unsafe working conditions and make sure they received a decent wage for a days work. That ended a long long time ago.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Wow that's interesting to know. My family has been running construction companies in HVAC, plumbing and carpentry for decades. One thing all my uncles and father say is they make the same money they made in the 90's the only difference is the cost of doing business has more than doubled and they are all struggling. My uncle is union HVAC business owner btw.

He does really well for himself but his profit margins have been drastically reduced over the last few years.