Is it better to light a candle, or curse the dark?

A lot of preppers focus a great deal of effort on generating their own electrical power if the official grid goes down. I've made the personal choice to make preparations that don't involve a generator; basically just "doing without." Here are some reasons why:

-if there is a blackout where you live, the silence will be total, in a way that most urban people practically never experience. The sound of your generator firing up will be heard for blocks, if not a mile or more. When people hear one generator breaking that all-consuming silence, every hungry or cold human within earshot will turn toward the sound of civilization, and begin shuffling towards it, like zombies ambling toward the scent of human flesh.

- the light you use in the driveway to butcher a deer will be just as visible in the dark. Every exterior light that allows you to be active, allows THEM to be active...

-the power needed to keep your frozen food frozen will last what, a weekend? Then you'll be doing it the old way, with the rest of us. If your generator uses a gallon every 4 hours, which is a ridiculous level of efficiency, how long will your generator run? 5 days? A month? Then what?

-if you're storing gas, you've got to stabilize it, and keep your tank hidden. Or have that LPG tank hidden, yet still accessible to the filler truck....

-or maybe your generator is on a natural gas line. Gas lines rely on the electrical grid to maintain pressure in the line. Utilities have been known to shut off the supply during a blackout, because pilot light safety cuttoff systems can fail.

a reply to: tovenar
Wow. You have really thought that out.

One of my choices is cyanideI really don’t want to live in a post-apopalyctic world. If it’s nukes, I lucked out and live in a prime target area and will go out wit a bang.

I can drink a lot of Scotch in 20 minutes assuming they warn us.

But I have to say that is a really good idea.

a reply to: tovenar
I think you are on the right track. The way forward if the SHTF is to go back to a hunter gather existence. No electricity. Yeah, the sound could be heard quite a way but more importantly is the light. A light in the dark can be seen many, many more miles than a genny could be heard.
A better question would be just why you want electricity in the first place because sooner rather than later you will have no fuel for one. Then you have to default to your method.

a reply to: tovenar
PS. even a candle can be seen for quite a distance giving other people the knowledge that there is someone there. The worst that people never take into consideration is fire. You can keep fire hidden but the smoke it generates is another. Having a fire only at night can hide the smoke but the smell of smoke can travel miles and in that scenario fire means people.

Modern inverter generators are a lot more fuel efficient than traditional ones, FYI. Quieter, too- they run at variable RPM to adjust for electric load.

One problem I have with the idea of survival is the first six months. Even if you have the equipment, own the land, have the preparation... have food stores and fuel to keep those stores good, the first six months are still a total crapshoot. All the off-grid knowhow won't help you when hoards of hungry, armed, scared people start roaming the countryside trying to stave off starvation or cold.
Two years in, the wildlife may have recovered to the point where you could hunt/trap enough to eat- but the first few months would be tons of people eating whatever they need to - and after that you'd have a period where the wildlife population is too devastated to realistically live off of.

Of course, this assumes the collapse is financial and not related to war or some unforseen event (asteroid, supervolcano, etc) that kills the wildlife, too.

Running a genny isn't a good long term plan, and it's not a great short term plan either- but those of us in the north wouldn't survive without heat. Generating enough wood to get through a heating season without using gas tools (chainsaw, power splitter, etc) would take at least as much effort as storing food for the winter. doing it alone would make for a hard year, I can't imagine also fending off the zombies.

I think maybe starting out trying to keep electricity going is not a bad idea, particularly when it comes to things like heat and food storage. But depending on the way things shake out, it might be unsustainable so it would be a good idea to transition to electricity-free.

I guess the thing to keep in mind that unless the big event is an asteroid strike or supervolcano eruption, not everything will fall apart instantly at the same time. The "collapse" is much more likely to be in slow motion. Even with an asteroid strike, the north and south hemispheres are relatively isolated from each other weather-wise, so a huge catastrophe in the north may take a while to affect the south. So there will still be isolated pockets of normal civilization around for a while. Maybe with a little luck and reliance on back-ups, these pockets will grow and eventually become sustainable again.

I know people like the dramatic zombie/mutant/cannibal scenario, making it an adversarial contest. But I have more often seen people work together to get through catastrophes and help each other than I have seen people instantly revert to brutal savagery. Few things can be more brutal than a strong community of like-minded people.

So who knows? It may never be an issue. Just have to wait and see.

It is best to just start now

a reply to: tovenar

What is this thing you call "elect-ricity" and "light" in darkness????

The bright orb rise above cave and day start; the bright orb go away and day over. Fire...good. Zombie...bad. Fight like raped weasel, run like wet cat. Life good!

Uggggh!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
If you want to see it in action watch a film called "quest for fire".

a reply to: crayzeed

Is that the one with "Radon" Chong?

a reply to: tovenar

The smart move is to plan to be without electricity, food , shelter and water.

learn to provide yourself with these things from nothing and you will be as reasonably prepared for anything as a person can be.

I have camping gear, solar panels, tablets, and rechargeable lights plus four months of food in my closet.

But what do I do if I need to leave my home and can't take any of it with me?

So what I did was split my gear half at my home half deep in a forest so that I have somewhere to run to if I need it.

But still I teach myself how to survive with none of it. Our minds are our best survival tool.

Seems like the silent solar panel and blackout window curtains would solve most the problems the OP suggests.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

I know people like the dramatic zombie/mutant/cannibal scenario, making it an adversarial contest. But I have more often seen people work together to get through catastrophes and help each other than I have seen people instantly revert to brutal savagery.

Yes, but those catastrophes existed as small pools of disorder within an ordered whole. Where the chaos is limited within a surrounding sense of civilized order, people are constrained by the threat of law and order. Law and order which would at some future time investigate and punish those responsible for that brutal savagery. A post apocalyptic scenario on the other hand is where thermo-nuclear or bacterial warfare, or em pulse or some such has compromised the foundations of civilized life to a repair level beyond estimate. In this environment we will find the youngest and strongest taking control of the situation. i.e.the tattooed twits we see strutting around even today who all believe that they are "alpha males" ready to defend some imagined look or insult which calls their masculinity into question. Those who have experienced a privileged life pre-apocalypse, will be shocked and paralyzed.

What about cursing the candle? Lightning the dark?
Seriously though, if you are going to need power, get solar panels, and an inverter. Car batteries will be everywhere. They dont AMPs the same as a deep cycle battery, but you can charge them again and again and again. And when they finally give up, you can with some know how, make a new battery. You could even store a battery dry so it doesnt discharge over time and add acid to it when your ready to activate it. Best part is, its all silent. And imagine what you could trade those car batteries that are lying around for after you charge them. That know how could make someone a valuable member of the community....Or a target to rob.
Generators though will only have so much fuel unless you have one that runs on a fuel you can produce yourself (ethanol)
Definitely dont forsake technology though. Use it smart ofcourse, but use it. Having a way to charge batteries would make things a lot easier.

comet even a so called earth killer half mile rock would still be livable same with volcano even yellow stone .
The rock being the main killer of dinos is more myth then fact it just set off a chain of evens that lead to there end and even then birds - frogs- alligators -snakes and so on show it was no were near total .
Our own infighting aside if a big rock hit or yellow stone popped humans could get through with minimal lose .
It would all depend on if the world worked together or went nuts .

And the past has shown in times of Natural issues people work together over all .

So other then a true earth killer in which it would not matter . War and a world out brake of something bad are the only things that could truly have a chance to bring us back down below even electric lv .
Out brake billions dieing the infrostructor falls apart in weeks as most as trade brakes down and power fails no one is there to keep things running .

But In that case if you don't get sick and live when its over the world will become a MUCH MUCH easier to live in as all the extra junk will last 300 years .

War on the other hand has the best chance to be our end .
First the 3 to 6 nuks over 150 megatons planted at the poles and in orbit - like being hit by a comet with each one .
Then 40,000 more smaller nuks fly hitting EVER last city and base on the planet .
In hours 2.2 BILLION people are dead now the after effects start first cloud covering the whole planet for years with a Plant death rate of 99% then all larger animals die for lak of food .

Also to top it off radiation lvs that are deadly over most of the planet no water safe to drink . This will not last a day or week or even years but decades to even start seeing improvements .

day one 2.2 billion dead - year one 3 billion more o my already down to 2 billion left over the next 5 years 1.5 billion more will die leaving at best 3 to 500 million .
Now comes the critical part as over the next 20 years they ether start rebuilding or keep fight for scraps which do you think will happen >
If they help each other then in 300 years the earth is once again nice if they fight the drop keeps going .
300 million - 200 million 100 million then just millions .

300 more years later the fighting finly slows a few people who can make metals and such maybe they have relearned some basic teck say 1800 lv for most stuff with a mix of 1960s .

small towns villages and peace will be 1000 years then it starts all over .
Accutly extinction that would be hard to do humans will eat darn near anything can live darn near any ware .

as for your personal life in this event day one 30 % chance your alive year one 30 % chance your still kicking
by year 5- 10 % chance .over all 70 % chance you die in the first 5 years . 7 out of ten people .
By year 20 well very very few who lived through it left the people you now see are mostly 20 or under .

Now better to find ways to keep it from happieng dont you think ? why focus so much on after it happens ? you we can still keep it from happening it would be much better to do that then your life is granated .

well alest untill you get hit by that truck next week lol .
so tell me MR prep just how well do you think even Mont hood would do as a shelter ?

The smell of food cooking.

In a more urban environment the smells will be ubiquitous, and people around you o hopefully defend you. In sparsely populated areas you'll definitely b advertising your presence.

-use a Coleman stove or clean gas barbecue grill, so the fuel itself is low odor. Charcoal is another possibility.

- cook at night, when other people cannot move around so freely to investigate you.

-use upper floor so smell and sounds will diffuse.

- prepare meals by boiling water (which is odorless), then add ingredients to slow cook. Rice, beans, pasta, certain vegetables will cook well this way. Once the food is in the water, the pot can be removed to an interior room, where outsiders can't smell it so easily. Steeping conserves energy.

- roast meat by building a charcoal fire Ina trench. When the coals bake down, add meat wrapped in foil and then bury. Will often cook for days at low temperature.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
Yep and Ron Perlman.