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Ben Shapiro explains how bad Trump’s NK deal really is.

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posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:33 PM
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Ben uses a lot of maybe's and could be's in the vid .

There will be different expectations of what any deal will look like but it may end up being as simple as no more long range missile delivery systems . Kim may end up keeping the nukes as a deterrent which is a reasonable thing to do once you have them . It would be great if the North and the South could become hole again in which case even the South could benefit of having Nukes to deter any neighbor thinking about going to war .

But its a deal that we will have to see when its all said and done .Even then it could be the next POTUS cancels it . Those kind of things happen .




posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:34 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: introvert

I'm not sure it was fully agreed to pull out all troops out of south Korea but to end war games but I honestly don't know.


Still, what did we get in return?



So far we got 3 hostages back, a halt to their nuclear tests (you can take that one away if you want since they destroyed their nuclear site, but it would be a simple matter to build another one), a halt to their missile tests and a pledge to denuclearize and allow inspections. All in exchange for giving Kim a little attention and suspending exercises that we can live without for a while to see if he's serious. If not, we just restart them.

This is not that big of a deal.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: introvert

Was the first meeting in decades and it went well. The hope is to have several meetingsand open up a relationship with an isolationist country we've been at war with for 60 years. I agree it's vague but let's see it play out and stay optimistic


I agree. We should see how this plays-out and I hope for the best. Obviously, Un likes Trump and if it takes Trump to set the Korean peninsula straight, I'm all for it.

I just think it's absurd to say this is a great success without knowing all the details and to see what we are getting out of this deal.


There is no deal, this is all preliminary. The media wants to call it a deal so they can tear it apart for not being specific enough. They met for a few hours. It took over a year to work out the Iran deal. Right now it's just wait and see.


Ok. It's still a deal, whether it's still in the making or not.

We cannot say it is a success or failure without all the details.

Therefore, to say what you said seems to be putting the cart before the horse and coming from a place of ignorance.

Shapiro could be correct. This may be a big deal. We don't know.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: introvert

it only takes a step from all sides, so whats the harm, its all about give it a shot



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:36 PM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: introvert

I'm not sure it was fully agreed to pull out all troops out of south Korea but to end war games but I honestly don't know.


Still, what did we get in return?



So far we got 3 hostages back, a halt to their nuclear tests (you can take that one away if you want since they destroyed their nuclear site, but it would be a simple matter to build another one), a halt to their missile tests and a pledge to denuclearize and allow inspections. All in exchange for giving Kim a little attention and suspending exercises that we can live without for a while to see if he's serious. If not, we just restart them.

This is not that big of a deal.


That's all in writing and signed?



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:36 PM
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originally posted by: Dr UAE
a reply to: introvert

it only takes a step from all sides, so whats the harm, its all about give it a shot


Sure. I never said otherwise.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:37 PM
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Retired four-star Gen. Barry McCaffrey is the former chief of U.S. Southern Command. “I believe it was entirely inappropriate for President Trump — who has no understanding of nuclear weapons and strategic alliances and was completely unprepared — to meet alone with the North Korean dictator without so much as a note-taker present,” he told Yahoo News in an interview.
(emphasis mine)


Equally surprising as Trump’s military announcement was the fact that he reportedly took this unilateral step without notifying South Korean and Japanese allies, or the Pentagon.


Source

If NK does actually give up its nuclear weapons, which remains to be seen given Kim's past promises to do just that, several new nuclear powers will arise from this agreement. Including Japan and South Korea. In the absence of a strong US presence in the region, they will feel the need to arm themselves to prevent China's imperialist ambitions from engulfing their nations.

I can only hope that Trumps "unique" negotiation methodology will yield positive results. But we've been here before, and past negotiations from previous administrations didn't relinquish near as much as Trump just gave away.

-dex



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: introvert

We have nothing to lose. So why would we "gain" anything? North Korea would be a good "Annual Training" for the Texas National Guard and Air Guard, not to mention their T.S.D.F...if called into active service.
What did you "gain" or "lose", before this "process"? Funny thing is, you say, "we"? Who's we? So you haven't "heard"? And in the big, global scheme of things? How would YOU, "hear" about it? A search warrant? E-mail? In the big scheme of things, you lose nothing nor gain nothing. It's out of your, our, we, ... hands. Like or dislike. That's fact! Get up tomorrow, be productive, don't take but give. And if they don't speak good American English? Send them swimming! Give them a "flotation device". We aren't heathens!



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: JoshuaCox


It's interesting to see so many basically call the game after the fist pitch has been thrown.




Might want to wait a few innings before proclaiming it a disaster.



Atleast they are consistent and predictable.

They were calling the old agreements including Bush much better than this agreement , the problem was that it had not been released yet.

I wonder if they are using the same crystal ball they used so see Hillary as POTUS?





edit on 40630America/ChicagoTue, 12 Jun 2018 18:40:04 -0500000000p3042 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:38 PM
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I need to see details of the deal. What is Trump supposed to be giving the NK. I have not heard anything yet other than that he will lift some sanctions. What farm is he giving Kim, a two acre hobby farm out on some desert Island somewhere, possibly where Gilligan got stranded? I am ignoring this kind of BS till I hear the facts and as far as I have heard the details are not even worked out or released yet.

I am not watching the video, I usually watch videos but with the OP I am not even one bit interested to know what he is squawking about. Kim did not by any way look like he was sold on change the other times, our past administration did not treat him with the respect of a leader of a country. They treated him like he was nobody. Trump treats him like a leader of a different country. Maybe this time it will work out.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: introvert

I'm not sure it was fully agreed to pull out all troops out of south Korea but to end war games but I honestly don't know.


Still, what did we get in return?



So far we got 3 hostages back, a halt to their nuclear tests (you can take that one away if you want since they destroyed their nuclear site, but it would be a simple matter to build another one), a halt to their missile tests and a pledge to denuclearize and allow inspections. All in exchange for giving Kim a little attention and suspending exercises that we can live without for a while to see if he's serious. If not, we just restart them.

This is not that big of a deal.


That's all in writing and signed?


You're acting like they signed a treaty. It was a meet and greet. We both pledged to give the other something. What they pledged to give is a lot bigger than what we pledged to give. And both sides can say forget it any minute. It was a step in the right direction, nothing more. The people analyzing it like it's a done deal are doing the public a disservice.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:39 PM
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a reply to: murphy22



We have nothing to lose. So why would we "gain" anything?


What? Just because you have nothing to lose does not mean you cannot gain something.

That is ridiculous.



North Korea would be a good "Annual Training" for the Texas National Guard and Air Guard, not to mention their T.S.D.F...if called into active service. What did you "gain" or "lose", before this "process"? Funny thing is, you say, "we"? Who's we? So you haven't "heard"? And in the big, global scheme of things? How would YOU, "hear" about it? A search warrant? E-mail? In the big scheme of things, you lose nothing nor gain nothing. It's out of your, our, we, ... hands. Like or dislike. That's fact! Get up tomorrow, be productive, don't take but give. And if they don't speak good American English? Send them swimming! Give them a "flotation device". We aren't heathens!


I have no clue what you are talking about.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:41 PM
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originally posted by: DexterRiley


Retired four-star Gen. Barry McCaffrey is the former chief of U.S. Southern Command. “I believe it was entirely inappropriate for President Trump — who has no understanding of nuclear weapons and strategic alliances and was completely unprepared — to meet alone with the North Korean dictator without so much as a note-taker present,” he told Yahoo News in an interview.
(emphasis mine)


Equally surprising as Trump’s military announcement was the fact that he reportedly took this unilateral step without notifying South Korean and Japanese allies, or the Pentagon.


Source

If NK does actually give up its nuclear weapons, which remains to be seen given Kim's past promises to do just that, several new nuclear powers will arise from this agreement. Including Japan and South Korea. In the absence of a strong US presence in the region, they will feel the need to arm themselves to prevent China's imperialist ambitions from engulfing their nations.

I can only hope that Trumps "unique" negotiation methodology will yield positive results. But we've been here before, and past negotiations from previous administrations didn't relinquish near as much as Trump just gave away.

-dex



Doesn't that four star general realize that everything Trump and Kim said was recorded by technology? Why would you need a note taker. Maybe we also need to clean up the war mongers in our country.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:41 PM
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originally posted by: DexterRiley


Retired four-star Gen. Barry McCaffrey is the former chief of U.S. Southern Command. “I believe it was entirely inappropriate for President Trump — who has no understanding of nuclear weapons and strategic alliances and was completely unprepared — to meet alone with the North Korean dictator without so much as a note-taker present,” he told Yahoo News in an interview.
(emphasis mine)


Equally surprising as Trump’s military announcement was the fact that he reportedly took this unilateral step without notifying South Korean and Japanese allies, or the Pentagon.


Source

If NK does actually give up its nuclear weapons, which remains to be seen given Kim's past promises to do just that, several new nuclear powers will arise from this agreement. Including Japan and South Korea. In the absence of a strong US presence in the region, they will feel the need to arm themselves to prevent China's imperialist ambitions from engulfing their nations.

I can only hope that Trumps "unique" negotiation methodology will yield positive results. But we've been here before, and past negotiations from previous administrations didn't relinquish near as much as Trump just gave away.

-dex



This is something else I've seen a lot of whining about is that what they talked about wasn't recorded. That's neither unprecedented, nor is it even really true. A State Dept translator was one of the guests on CNN last night and he explained that the translators always take notes. There is a record of what they said, although like most meetings between heads of state it's likely all classified right now. Perhaps in the future it can be released. Right now it's just something else of no substance for Trump haters to whine about.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: face23785



You're acting like they signed a treaty.


Yes. You are talking in absolutes, so I assumed this was a done deal.

Do you have a copy of the deal, or were you just making things up that could happen, but are not set in stone?



It was a meet and greet. We both pledged to give the other something. What they pledged to give is a lot bigger than what we pledged to give. And both sides can say forget it any minute. It was a step in the right direction, nothing more.


So it was a pledge? A promise?

Ok. I'd like to see some specifics that were promised.



The people analyzing it like it's a done deal are doing the public a disservice.


True. It appears you are one of those people.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:43 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: face23785



You're acting like they signed a treaty.


Yes. You are talking in absolutes, so I assumed this was a done deal.

Do you have a copy of the deal, or were you just making things up that could happen, but are not set in stone?



It was a meet and greet. We both pledged to give the other something. What they pledged to give is a lot bigger than what we pledged to give. And both sides can say forget it any minute. It was a step in the right direction, nothing more.


So it was a pledge? A promise?

Ok. I'd like to see some specifics that were promised.



The people analyzing it like it's a done deal are doing the public a disservice.


True. It appears you are one of those people.


That's cute. Where did I say it was a done deal? I'll wait.

Since I didn't say that, I'll make it easy on you, what did I say that made you think it's a done deal? Be specific.
edit on 12 6 18 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:48 PM
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I like Ben, but this video...... not so much. Carry-on.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: face23785



That's cute. Where did I say it was a done deal? I'll wait.


Sure. Here is the quote:



So far we got 3 hostages back, a halt to their nuclear tests (you can take that one away if you want since they destroyed their nuclear site, but it would be a simple matter to build another one), a halt to their missile tests and a pledge to denuclearize and allow inspections. All in exchange for giving Kim a little attention and suspending exercises that we can live without for a while to see if he's serious. If not, we just restart them.




Since I didn't say that, I'll make it easy on you, what did I say that made you think it's a done deal? Be specific.


See above. You just told us what "we got". Right?



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

South Korea still is and will always be a Democratic society, so strike one.

Where is your link or even a direct quote by Trump stating that he intends to remove a single troop ? I will wait...strike 2.

The only give we have provided is to cancel scheduled military exercises, which can be reinstated in 24 hours so no real loss but instead an expected savings to the Pentagon so strike 3.

Any changes in the number of allocated troops would require changes to the Status of Forces Agreement between South Korea and the US, changes which would not happen overnight and not without some major agreements between the two.

President Trump has already stated that any agreement he helped forge would include ideas and participation from regional allies and international players. He also stated it would be forwarded to Congressional leaders in the form of a Treaty for them to ratify.

This is just a never Trumper who cannot get over his own ego and his own inability to force his choice of candidate on everyone else. I am sure if we wait another 24 hours that somehow Putin will be behind all of this according to certain political stogies.

I am a skeptic of anything related to governments, ours, theirs, and future ones but will wait and see. I will not wait while the disinformation campaign of sour grapes parades down partisans alley without calling it out



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: face23785

I believe an accredited note taker is generally a standard fixture in any negotiation of this magnitude. I don't think that translators taking notes meets the same level of veracity. As far as what technology was used to record the event, I have no information.

Trump's unilateral actions without consulting allies in the region is a bit more disconcerting.

You all may want to review the source article that I linked. It provides a lot more information about how Trump's concession of no more war games, and a desire to remove troops from SK could adversely affect US power projection in the Asian region.

-dex







 
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