Dishonest or Truthful - Which One?

I am sure many of you have come across this situation. When you have two human beings in disagreement over past predicaments, trying to gather the evidence of the situation and trying to resolve everything by collecting all of the truth about events and coming to a mutual conclusion that everyone is happy with, the truth over events and actions can be manipulated. This mostly happens when one party wants to control another. Be that someone wants money they are owed, or somebody wants another person to do something, etc. And in the midst of getting people to submit to them, sometimes dishonesty can be added to the situation on both sides so people take caution, and if someone tells a lie and they are believed - that can be a powerful tool in succeeding to control the actions of another human being.

I would like your honest opinion, even if harsh, to describe what you think about believe over this particular scenario that I have experienced many times, and it bewilders me, if I am to make any sense of it at all I would assume that some people play word games.

If you tell a person a fact, that is your truth you are telling them over what you did, and they reply to you by saying, "no that did not happen," and although the other person was not there and they do not know, they still accuse to you that what you said did not happen, and you ask, "are you calling me a liar?" 9 times out of 10 the person will say "no, I am not calling you a liar." Because the words "you are a liar" did not come from their mouth. But if you told them the truth, and they said "no, that did not happen" - how can they not be asserting that you lied? Because they do not know what happened or not - it is just your word that they either accept or do not accept.

Because when this happens I say, "you did not use the term liar in your accusation, but I told you my truth as I experienced it and you said "no, that did not happen". So after speaking for a few minutes, since all I have is my truth and I cannot deviate from that, I continue to say the truth as what happened, but they continue on their accusation, suggesting that no, that did not happen, but still they strongly deny calling me a liar. Is that meant to manipulate my emotions? Because it is so confusing for somebody to deny what I know as the truth about my experience, but yet when they do not believe me they are saying that I am not telling the truth - but at the same time they are strongly denying that they think I am not telling the truth.

In life there are often people that create and believe in their own reality. Recognizing that they are not lying from their point of view can be helpful with all of your social interactions.

My mother was one such person. She was often naive and lived in her own ivory tower. While it could be infuriating, she did truly believe what she was saying.

You can’t win your argument. People remember things differently to how you do. Sometimes speak and don’t explain their words properly and some people are just dumb
Give it up and accept the differences or you will just get frustrated and angry and that spills into other aspects of your life
Can’t change some people

My mother is the same, she will tell me I said things that I would never say. Maybe confuses me with my brother or someone else she heard. Who knows

a reply to: MatterIsLight

One reason for the confusion is that the term "lie" implies deliberate dishonesty. As in, someone knows the truth but is intentionally telling something that's not true. "Misinformed/misinformation" implies that the person is saying something incorrect, but didn't know it was incorrect. And a "misunderstanding" is simply an issue where something is interpreted differently from how it was intended (I guess that's a good working definition).

So if someone thinks you're misinformed about a situation or are misunderstanding a situation, they may feel the need to correct you or persuade you. But that doesn't mean they think you're intentionally saying or believing something that's false (aka "lying"). Hope that helps.

Many people misinterpret what they see and hear. They may not know all the facts leading to the event. It is not a lie, just a falacy. Because they believe it is true and sometimes parrot it as the truth.

A lie actually has intent involved in it's creation.

a reply to: MatterIsLight

OH this is a narcissistic tactic!

My ex husband says this allll the time. I seriously want to punch him in the face over it.

When someone tells me "no that didn't happen" and I know very well it did and they would have no way of knowing what actually did happen I just ignore them! I won't argue with a moron or someone who feels the need to always be right, too many of those in society today.

Some people also do not like nor can they handle the truth so they live in their own little world where they feel comfortable.

That turd in the pool was a Babe Ruth candy bar.
So, I've got that going for me.

originally posted by: mblahnikluver
a reply to: MatterIsLight

OH this is a narcissistic tactic!

My ex husband says this allll the time. I seriously want to punch him in the face over it.

When someone tells me "no that didn't happen" and I know very well it did and they would have no way of knowing what actually did happen I just ignore them! I won't argue with a moron or someone who feels the need to always be right, too many of those in society today.

Some people also do not like nor can they handle the truth so they live in their own little world where they feel comfortable.

Lol that is funny. Thank you very much for your support. I am really faced with this right now during this time - a lot of people are making judgments against me because they live in their own world of dishonesty. They are dishonest because they would not ever admit to me the way they think about me like how they speak of me when I am not around. So they show me in their actions that they do not like me. I was thinking, if I didn't like somebody and I was keeping it a secret, why would I go through the trouble to show them in my actions? It tells me that they are more aimed at controlling my emotions and attempting to make me feel bad by treating me with contempt, than they are concerned about not liking me.

I have seen that a lot in my life. Many of my friends in the past I found were saying things against me when I was not there. But they will not ever admit it. I don't know what makes people want to live this double kind of life in their mind. But it is stressful to me, because while other people are doing things that are not just, I am already trying to sort out my own emotions over my adoption and my family and things that naturally already give me some grief.

What you are saying has so much truth to it, so are so right, that ignoring them is the best choice for sure. And as you probably know even with making that good choice things like this tend to bottle up when they happen a lot and the energy just builds up and there is not many ways to release it, do you know how to release the impact of these things happening often? Because as you said it appears that the world is not getting better in this respect, it appears that more and more people are choosing to life the way of neglect and being disrespectful, thinking that people have to earn respect, but to me I believe in giving respect because it is positive and I know that giving disrespect is harmful to the emotions of others, so I don't understand those things which make them live that way.

originally posted by: Metallicus
In life there are often people that create and believe in their own reality. Recognizing that they are not lying from their point of view can be helpful with all of your social interactions.

My mother was one such person. She was often naive and lived in her own ivory tower. While it could be infuriating, she did truly believe what she was saying.

My mom is also involved in my situation. I was adopted and my dad was the only one of my sister and mother who understood me. So I knew that upon his passing that things would be different. So fast forward some years and my mom is calling me a brat from my childhood, even though I am making tangible changes she is still calling me a brat and I'm thinking, does that really help? But even more hurtful - she doe not believe me when I tell her things about my life. She will be pestering me to do things, but when I say that I have done them she doesn't believe, so she will get angry with me while telling me to do such things, like she wants to control me, but when I tell her the outcome of what happen she doesn't believe me - so it is a circle of her getting angry and I cannot say anything different than what was the truth - so she gets angry and my chest starts having palpitations because the stress is so intense as a result of me feeling like I can say or do nothing to stop this. On top of that she has always taught me - "nobody can have an affect on your emotions - only you are 100% responsible for your emotions." So she really believes that she has nothing to do with the stress I feel from that, and how I always needed a mother with empathy because of my adoption.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: MatterIsLight

One reason for the confusion is that the term "lie" implies deliberate dishonesty. As in, someone knows the truth but is intentionally telling something that's not true. "Misinformed/misinformation" implies that the person is saying something incorrect, but didn't know it was incorrect. And a "misunderstanding" is simply an issue where something is interpreted differently from how it was intended (I guess that's a good working definition).

So if someone thinks you're misinformed about a situation or are misunderstanding a situation, they may feel the need to correct you or persuade you. But that doesn't mean they think you're intentionally saying or believing something that's false (aka "lying"). Hope that helps.

Thanks this is good information about working around the exact situation I mentioned in the OP.

Lol that is funny. Thank you very much for your support. I am really faced with this right now during this time - a lot of people are making judgments against me because they live in their own world of dishonesty. They are dishonest because they would not ever admit to me the way they think about me like how they speak of me when I am not around. So they show me in their actions that they do not like me. I was thinking, if I didn't like somebody and I was keeping it a secret, why would I go through the trouble to show them in my actions? It tells me that they are more aimed at controlling my emotions and attempting to make me feel bad by treating me with contempt, than they are concerned about not liking me.

Oh I know how you feel. I have learned over time to just not give a flying money''s butt what others think of me. I deal with it at work daily. People are fake to your face vs just being honest. I am an empath and I can sense people's energy and emotions. Sometimes it's overwhelming and the negative energy far out weighs their fake smile. You have to learn to let it go. Nobody will ever agree with you and they will always have their opinions of you whether you agree or not. Just let it roll off and ignore them. You will drive yourself mad over it if you think too much on it. I know I have been there, now I just don't care.

I have seen that a lot in my life. Many of my friends in the past I found were saying things against me when I was not there. But they will not ever admit it. I don't know what makes people want to live this double kind of life in their mind. But it is stressful to me, because while other people are doing things that are not just, I am already trying to sort out my own emotions over my adoption and my family and things that naturally already give me some grief.

I honestly would not worry about what others says. People will always talk behind your back. My so called best friend of 10 years turned out to be a complete and utter narc who trashes everyone she claims to be a friend. I keep my circle of "friends" extremely small. I don't care to let just anyone into my personal life. I don't trust people easily and with good reason.

Most people will never admit they talked behind your back. I'm the kind of person who some say lacks a filter lol but to me I am just honest. I have no problem telling someone something i said to their face. IMO the whole lying about one says is why people have issues! I don't like to sugar coat anything. being honest and up front is my motto.

What you are saying has so much truth to it, so are so right, that ignoring them is the best choice for sure. And as you probably know even with making that good choice things like this tend to bottle up when they happen a lot and the energy just builds up and there is not many ways to release it, do you know how to release the impact of these things happening often? Because as you said it appears that the world is not getting better in this respect, it appears that more and more people are choosing to life the way of neglect and being disrespectful, thinking that people have to earn respect, but to me I believe in giving respect because it is positive and I know that giving disrespect is harmful to the emotions of others, so I don't understand those things which make them live that way.

I hear you 1000%!!! I was just talking with a friend about this yesterday. It seems people lack empathy nowadays. It is truly sad if you ask me.

How do I deal? I limit contact with others but that is me. I make sure I have time for myself. I do meditate which is HARD to start doing. IT took me years to finally do it and it is calming. I just take some alone time and recharge. I try not to dwell on what others say.

A good rant also helps

highexistence.com...#-you-the-double-slit-experiment/


First, what you observe, is your truth.

Second, why do you assume someone having a different recollection of events automatically thinks you're lying? Why can't someone think your memory is faulty, or that you just remember it differently? Can you pick out the colorblind stranger? You have no concept of what another person is experiencing.
a reply to: MatterIsLight

originally posted by: gr8skott

highexistence.com...#-you-the-double-slit-experiment/


First, what you observe, is your truth.

Second, why do you assume someone having a different recollection of events automatically thinks you're lying? Why can't someone think your memory is faulty, or that you just remember it differently? Can you pick out the colorblind stranger? You have no concept of what another person is experiencing.
a reply to: MatterIsLight

Its all a matter of perception

One person's truth is another person's lie

originally posted by: mblahnikluver
Oh I know how you feel. I have learned over time to just not give a flying money''s butt what others think of me. I deal with it at work daily. People are fake to your face vs just being honest. I am an empath and I can sense people's energy and emotions. Sometimes it's overwhelming and the negative energy far out weighs their fake smile. You have to learn to let it go. Nobody will ever agree with you and they will always have their opinions of you whether you agree or not. Just let it roll off and ignore them. You will drive yourself mad over it if you think too much on it. I know I have been there, now I just don't care.

Yes! That is exactly how I feel. I have not had this ability all of my life. Recently, and I get better and better at it each day - I can sense the energy of people and I can sense their honesty. I can see their body language and before they even speak they have given away their truth, so when they speak and they talk about things contrary to how they feel and think, it is so easy for me now, to read them and to get an idea of what they are all about.

But all this ability has given me is a ton more frustration and almost helplessness living in a world where so many people do not believe in being honest with me. I believe the way that people think of me and see me is actually important for me at this time in my life, because I am not well off financially, so until a time when I can actually kick back and relax in my mind a large part of my conscience has to do with allowing people to accept me and want to help me. Because in this world I can see that in order to become successful you need some support of other people who believe in you. Because if zero people believed in you, there would be nobody to buy your product or there would be nobody to work with you. We truly need each other in society but in reality it brings great sadness to me to see that people do not support each other based in false judgments they make themselves, and some people do not support other races and hold negative views about others regardless of how good they are as a person, but just because of their culture. Then you have other people who get jealous if they see you doing good things. So there are many things that makes this world a negative place. And when you look at the top of corporations and the billionaires, those are the people who are really evil and greedy and they want to make sure that eventually this planet will suffer because they have stolen all the resources.

Hopefully I will come to this point of not caring. Because now I am learning these things and the fact that I am witnessing them and getting a conception of the way things are, it is very hard for me to ignore them. And even though I know why I am determined to be a good truthful person - because I believe in a universal law that is similar to karma - it still does not help the amount of negativity that is made in this world on purpose for the wrong reasons and the way I feel from witnessing that.

I honestly would not worry about what others says. People will always talk behind your back. My so called best friend of 10 years turned out to be a complete and utter narc who trashes everyone she claims to be a friend. I keep my circle of "friends" extremely small. I don't care to let just anyone into my personal life. I don't trust people easily and with good reason.

Most people will never admit they talked behind your back. I'm the kind of person who some say lacks a filter lol but to me I am just honest. I have no problem telling someone something i said to their face. IMO the whole lying about one says is why people have issues! I don't like to sugar coat anything. being honest and up front is my motto.

Yes but I feel that others have experienced similar things, so that when an honest person seeks companionship from another person who may have a lot in common with them, they are not invited into their friendship because of the things that have happened in the past with other people. Sometimes if I meet a new friend they will test me to see if I act in the same mannerisms as the people in their past who acted badly, but that is unfair to me to have to endure tests of my personality to see if I am a bad person. Sometimes if they act in that way it is enough for me to sacrifice the friendship because I do not believe in treating anyone badly, only honestly but good in intentions, meaning that I believe in respecting them always, giving them attention always, and anything that I can do to help. Because unlike what my mother had tried to teach me - I believe that human beings harm each other and heal each other based on the way we treat others. I believe that if I treat somebody with the utmost charm and respect, and show them that I love them and say good things to them, that I have a part in making them happy. But my mom says that people are only responsible for what they feel and nobody can affect that. To me that is an escape goat to make her think that she doesn't have any responsibility for the way people feel so she can drive by and spit on a homeless person and it won't make him feel any worse or any better.

I hear you 1000%!!! I was just talking with a friend about this yesterday. It seems people lack empathy nowadays. It is truly sad if you ask me.

How do I deal? I limit contact with others but that is me. I make sure I have time for myself. I do meditate which is HARD to start doing. IT took me years to finally do it and it is calming. I just take some alone time and recharge. I try not to dwell on what others say.

A good rant also helps

Oh yes, it was around 5 years ago when I started giving myself that space. I learned how to meditate like 10-15 years ago so I had a good background in that. But it was important for me to go deep within myself and read many books to gain an understanding, ever since many of my friends showed that they were not trustworthy. It was the beginning of my journey in knowledge before I understood how many people in the world - especially in high places - that are dishonest and believe in being dishonest with all of their soul. It was before I learned that these powerful people have been dishonest for a very long time leading up to how we have all been taught lies about almost everything. Fast forward to now when I witness somebody acting contrary to what is right, and not being honest about it, that hopefully one day I can run away from everyone because it keeps on happening and there is nothing I can do to stop it, because evil people eventually find a way to be evil. Thank you

originally posted by: gr8skott
First, what you observe, is your truth.

Second, why do you assume someone having a different recollection of events automatically thinks you're lying? Why can't someone think your memory is faulty, or that you just remember it differently? Can you pick out the colorblind stranger? You have no concept of what another person is experiencing.

This was already addressed in this post by enlightenedservant, but thanks -

originally posted by: [post=23483957]enlightenedservant

One reason for the confusion is that the term "lie" implies deliberate dishonesty. As in, someone knows the truth but is intentionally telling something that's not true. "Misinformed/misinformation" implies that the person is saying something incorrect, but didn't know it was incorrect. And a "misunderstanding" is simply an issue where something is interpreted differently from how it was intended (I guess that's a good working definition).

So if someone thinks you're misinformed about a situation or are misunderstanding a situation, they may feel the need to correct you or persuade you. But that doesn't mean they think you're intentionally saying or believing something that's false (aka "lying"). Hope that helps.

originally posted by: eletheia

Its all a matter of perception

One person's truth is another person's lie

Untrue: There are different sides to the truth based on the experience and perception of different individuals, but that "truth" is either associated to what is true or to what is false.

Ultimately there is one truth. People can feel differently about the same thing, and to each person is his or her truth, but there is still only what is true or what is false.