It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is There Redemption for Kim Jong Un??

page: 2
4
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:51 AM
link   

originally posted by: Cutepants

a reply to: wakeupstupid

What makes you think Kim is on bad terms with the military leadership? I'm sure they want to build bombs and stuff, but that's not the be all and end all of strategy.

It may be misleading to compare America's MIC with NK.


I'm not hardly saying that. I'm saying that the entire country is almost as fanatical as ours, except the last 2016 coup attempt was vastly elaborate and still failed in America. In NK, you just need a single bullet and things get weird. It's a little easier to take him out and go back to the old rhetoric. I'm suspecting that China is telling Kim right now that making this deal, and living, is vital for many reasons. They are likely making a counter offer something like:

Do everything Trump wants as far as disarming and opening up, except open up to us. It's already begun, can't you hear it? The sound of Brutus calling from the grave.




posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:53 AM
link   

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Seriously what's the alternative?

A nuclear war with North Korea?

It seems the world is never happy. Remove dictators and we opine about how bad we are for doing so. Leave dictators in place and we opine what bad people we are.

The world is a nasty place with a lot more nasty people than just Kim... high time we get over it. If "Redemption" helps avert war and potentially leads to a better life for the poor people in NK than what exactly is so hard about swallowing that pill?


The only alternative is making the deal with China instead, or Russia, or both. Still not as nuclear war terrible, but still kind of terrible.

The only reason anyone is forced to any table is Trump. So I give him credit, I hope history does too. I did it on the record first'ish, so to speak.


edit on 12-6-2018 by wakeupstupid because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:54 AM
link   
dp
edit on 12-6-2018 by wakeupstupid because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:55 AM
link   

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Seriously what's the alternative?

A nuclear war with North Korea?

It seems the world is never happy. Remove dictators and we opine about how bad we are for doing so. Leave dictators in place and we opine what bad people we are.

The world is a nasty place with a lot more nasty people than just Kim... high time we get over it. If "Redemption" helps avert war and potentially leads to a better life for the poor people in NK than what exactly is so hard about swallowing that pill?


Easy for you to say when you aren't in the position where you are being tortured day in and day out or in a death camp working for hours on end with little to no food or water because you broke an obscure law. I don't care what anyone says. The world should never tolerate or give murderous dictators any platform.

If war is required, then it is war that is necessary. If you allow people like Kim to keep his power, it will only embolden the rest of the world's tyrants.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:57 AM
link   

originally posted by: WarPig1939

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Seriously what's the alternative?

A nuclear war with North Korea?

It seems the world is never happy. Remove dictators and we opine about how bad we are for doing so. Leave dictators in place and we opine what bad people we are.

The world is a nasty place with a lot more nasty people than just Kim... high time we get over it. If "Redemption" helps avert war and potentially leads to a better life for the poor people in NK than what exactly is so hard about swallowing that pill?


Easy for you to say when you aren't in the position where you are being tortured day in and day out or in a death camp working for hours on end with little to no food or water because you broke an obscure law. I don't care what anyone says. The world should never tolerate or give murderous dictators any platform.

If war is required, then it is war that is necessary. If you allow people like Kim to keep his power, it will only embolden the rest of the world's tyrants.


Equally easy for you to say ....



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:57 AM
link   

originally posted by: WarPig1939

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Seriously what's the alternative?

A nuclear war with North Korea?

It seems the world is never happy. Remove dictators and we opine about how bad we are for doing so. Leave dictators in place and we opine what bad people we are.

The world is a nasty place with a lot more nasty people than just Kim... high time we get over it. If "Redemption" helps avert war and potentially leads to a better life for the poor people in NK than what exactly is so hard about swallowing that pill?


Easy for you to say when you aren't in the position where you are being tortured day in and day out or in a death camp working for hours on end with little to no food or water because you broke an obscure law. I don't care what anyone says. The world should never tolerate or give murderous dictators any platform.

If war is required, then it is war that is necessary. If you allow people like Kim to keep his power, it will only embolden the rest of the world's tyrants.


To reform or die?

Okie dokie.

I'll take that over, what? What exactly am I taking that over?



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:59 AM
link   

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: WarPig1939

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Seriously what's the alternative?

A nuclear war with North Korea?

It seems the world is never happy. Remove dictators and we opine about how bad we are for doing so. Leave dictators in place and we opine what bad people we are.

The world is a nasty place with a lot more nasty people than just Kim... high time we get over it. If "Redemption" helps avert war and potentially leads to a better life for the poor people in NK than what exactly is so hard about swallowing that pill?


Easy for you to say when you aren't in the position where you are being tortured day in and day out or in a death camp working for hours on end with little to no food or water because you broke an obscure law. I don't care what anyone says. The world should never tolerate or give murderous dictators any platform.

If war is required, then it is war that is necessary. If you allow people like Kim to keep his power, it will only embolden the rest of the world's tyrants.


Equally easy for you to say ....


Everyone is afraid of making the hard right decision. I don't mind dying for what I think is the right thing to do. At least my family can say I fought for what I believed in. What about you?



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:01 AM
link   

originally posted by: wakeupstupid

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Seriously what's the alternative?

A nuclear war with North Korea?

It seems the world is never happy. Remove dictators and we opine about how bad we are for doing so. Leave dictators in place and we opine what bad people we are.

The world is a nasty place with a lot more nasty people than just Kim... high time we get over it. If "Redemption" helps avert war and potentially leads to a better life for the poor people in NK than what exactly is so hard about swallowing that pill?


The only alternative is making the deal with China instead, or Russia, or both. Still not as nuclear war terrible, but still kind of terrible.

The only reason anyone is forced to any table is Trump. So I give him credit, I hope history does too. I did it on the record first'ish, so to speak.



How would that be better?

If China or Russia or both are the "real" power behind kim and making a deal with them ends the threat of north Korea than they are just as complicit in the camps and murder of the north Korean people.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:02 AM
link   

originally posted by: WarPig1939

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: WarPig1939

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Seriously what's the alternative?

A nuclear war with North Korea?

It seems the world is never happy. Remove dictators and we opine about how bad we are for doing so. Leave dictators in place and we opine what bad people we are.

The world is a nasty place with a lot more nasty people than just Kim... high time we get over it. If "Redemption" helps avert war and potentially leads to a better life for the poor people in NK than what exactly is so hard about swallowing that pill?


Easy for you to say when you aren't in the position where you are being tortured day in and day out or in a death camp working for hours on end with little to no food or water because you broke an obscure law. I don't care what anyone says. The world should never tolerate or give murderous dictators any platform.

If war is required, then it is war that is necessary. If you allow people like Kim to keep his power, it will only embolden the rest of the world's tyrants.


Equally easy for you to say ....


Everyone is afraid of making the hard right decision. I don't mind dying for what I think is the right thing to do. At least my family can say I fought for what I believed in. What about you?


Any man can die for what he believes in, if he is not a coward. Can a man forgive? That is God's command. To forgive, by definition, is "to relinquish the right to punish".

Don't believe me? Here's the synonyms: pardon, absolution, exoneration, remission, dispensation, indulgence, clemency, mercy;

I was also permanently and totally disabled in combat serving as an infantryman, airborne. I then refused to accept defeat and despite my injuries continued to fight myself every single day for dominance over my own destiny in spite of these setbacks. Maybe I know nothing, but I surrendered to God, so I know a little bit about that too.
edit on 12-6-2018 by wakeupstupid because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:03 AM
link   

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: wakeupstupid

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Seriously what's the alternative?

A nuclear war with North Korea?

It seems the world is never happy. Remove dictators and we opine about how bad we are for doing so. Leave dictators in place and we opine what bad people we are.

The world is a nasty place with a lot more nasty people than just Kim... high time we get over it. If "Redemption" helps avert war and potentially leads to a better life for the poor people in NK than what exactly is so hard about swallowing that pill?


The only alternative is making the deal with China instead, or Russia, or both. Still not as nuclear war terrible, but still kind of terrible.

The only reason anyone is forced to any table is Trump. So I give him credit, I hope history does too. I did it on the record first'ish, so to speak.



How would that be better?

If China or Russia or both are the "real" power behind kim and making a deal with them ends the threat of north Korea than they are just as complicit in the camps and murder of the north Korean people.


They aren't the real power, they are just making such deals available because of Trump's negotiating power. The deals were never a possibility before about 2am this morning CST.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:05 AM
link   

originally posted by: WarPig1939

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: WarPig1939

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Seriously what's the alternative?

A nuclear war with North Korea?

It seems the world is never happy. Remove dictators and we opine about how bad we are for doing so. Leave dictators in place and we opine what bad people we are.

The world is a nasty place with a lot more nasty people than just Kim... high time we get over it. If "Redemption" helps avert war and potentially leads to a better life for the poor people in NK than what exactly is so hard about swallowing that pill?


Easy for you to say when you aren't in the position where you are being tortured day in and day out or in a death camp working for hours on end with little to no food or water because you broke an obscure law. I don't care what anyone says. The world should never tolerate or give murderous dictators any platform.

If war is required, then it is war that is necessary. If you allow people like Kim to keep his power, it will only embolden the rest of the world's tyrants.


Equally easy for you to say ....


Everyone is afraid of making the hard right decision. I don't mind dying for what I think is the right thing to do. At least my family can say I fought for what I believed in. What about you?


Equally easy for you to say ....

No one's stopping you from hopping on a plain over to South Korea and crossing the border in order to dye for what I think is the right thing to do. I'd even wish you well, if your lucky maybe you can save us from making this terrible choice. At the very least you will be showing the world that one man can at least try to make a difference.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:14 AM
link   
a reply to: wakeupstupid

I can't agree that the US is more fanatical than NK. Or are you saying that they aren't because of the coup? Not sure what you are saying there.

Why would they kill Kim? Just to build more nukes? What's the point of building nukes if you don't use that leverage for anything? But I agree that China is in on it.

In what way does China not want NK to open up to them? And you mention Brutus, you're implying to me that there are conspirators who want to murder Kim? Or was that part of China's message to Kim?

Well anyhow, one thing we can agree about is that the peace process is more important than putting Kim in jail. When you grow up in a system like that you don't have many options. I simply don't know what he has done, how many people he has hurt. And what if he has (indirectly) tortured people, but saved others? Maybe he's been better than his dad. In an ideal world he should be punished or at least rehabilitated, but we have to think about the big picture. Hopefully the government is doing that.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:50 AM
link   
a reply to: JinMI

What if the Kim's were never really in charge...



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 06:55 AM
link   
I can see the peace process starting. Then, I can see nk being included and absorbed in sk. That will only happen though with amnesty for all crimes committed and a “truth and reclimation” process being implemented close to what happened in South Africa after apartheid ended. Once that happens I can a stronger better Korea. The big thing is the existing power brokers in nk need to be given a seat at the bigger table, and yes that may very well include a new communist party being a part of a joined Korea.

Camain



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 07:33 AM
link   
a reply to: Irishhaf




Gaddafi had gotten free and clear of the blood on his hands.


How did he accomplish this?



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 07:55 AM
link   

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: wakeupstupid

Your thread was certainly a part of the thought process for this one.

That is an important tidbit:



while he is not unbloodied he is not yet his father.


However it's the same as saying, "well, he only had a few people killed." It's puts America in a tight spot regarding who we'll deal with.

If at all possible, although political, we can keep the major partisan points out, this could be a constructive thread.



We deal with horrible people all the time. Hillary was so cozied with The House of the Saudis, that her own personal servers were routed through Saudi Arabia. The only reason people suddenly have a conscious is because it allows them to claim Trump has committed some great cardinal sin... This is the biggest fakest outpouring of emotion I have ever seen in my life. These people are SO concerned about these human rights abuses, that they sat and did nothing about them for decades, only to screech like bansheees the moment Trump steps up to the plate and mans up and does something. Predictable.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 07:59 AM
link   
a reply to: 3n19m470

The hypocrisy is wide spread. Something I can live with honestly. However the point remains that there is a elephant in the room that Trump chose not to address.

Will we just ignore it?



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 09:25 AM
link   
Anybody else thinks the Deep State liked to keep 'useful idiots' as paper tigers (enemies) to use them as needed ?
next we'll see Trump deal with Iran....



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 02:11 PM
link   

originally posted by: manuelram16
Anybody else thinks the Deep State liked to keep 'useful idiots' as paper tigers (enemies) to use them as needed ?
next we'll see Trump deal with Iran....


Yes I posted somewhere yesterday or early today that previous presidents allowed this regime to get stronger and stronger, step by step, with war rhetoric increasing in recent years... It's pretty obvious they were setting him up as the next Saddam/Ghaddaffi cash cow for the DEEP STATE/MIC.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 02:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: 3n19m470

The hypocrisy is wide spread. Something I can live with honestly. However the point remains that there is a elephant in the room that Trump chose not to address.

Will we just ignore it?


A few points

1. Kim Jong Un was born into this. Did he really have a choice? Does he know any other way to rule a nation?

2. Is he really in control of things? Is he brainwashed? Will Trump undo his mind control programming ques like he did Kanye? Is a faction of the deep state controlling North Korea somehow?

3. I for one expect the human rights abuses will be addressed. The first thing is to quell hostility between nations... THEN we can worry about applying some pressure here and there to make some changes inside DPRK.

4. I think Kim wants legitimacy. I think that is the dream Trump sold Kim. So I think he will be open to these changes. Trump has given him a chance to become beloved by the world, and that isn't going to happen if people are still suffering under his rule.

5. You could almost just as easily say there is an elephant in the room regarding the human rights of other nations like China or Russia that "Trump refuses to address".

6. It's not the best way to negotiate with an assumed madman "I'll start by remindong you, you are a sick disgusting maniac, and I'm the sane righteous one who desires peace. So with that most elementary, basic fact out of the way, here's what I think we should do..." You have to find a way to relate to them. Then once a rapport is built, you can more comfortably bring up more sensitive issues.

I don't expect they will clean up right away... They could be a little like China, who's presence we tolerate and even mutually benefit from, although we are aware of the stomach turning living conditions of so many poor Chinese.

I think Kim imagines a much bigger tourism industry, and most people, most westerners, will not wish to visit a country where things are even worse than China... If he wants any glimpse of legitimacy, he will have to make major changes. But they cannot happen simultaneously.

This way is better than the war way 👍



new topics




 
4
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join