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Is There Redemption for Kim Jong Un??

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posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 04:29 AM
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The jurists’ report is based on testimony from defectors and experts on the camps, believed to hold between 80,000 and 130,000 inmates. It cites evidence of systematic murder, including infanticide, and torture, persecution of Christians, rape, forced abortions, starvation and overwork leading to “countless deaths”.

Linky

The Commission of Inquiry is mandated to look into “systematic, widespread and grave violations of human rights” in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, in particular:

Violations of the right to food,
Violations associated with prison camps,
Torture and inhuman treatment,
Arbitrary detention,
Discrimination,
Violations of freedom of expression,
Violations of the right to life,
Violations of freedom of movement, and
Enforced disappearances, including in the form of abductions of nationals of other States.

Linky #2

Having watched most of the summit and follow up press conference, the media surely didn't give any slack to the PotUS regarding the many civil rights allegations that lie at the feet of KJU. They are numerous and Trump overlooked the accusations and any sort of recognition for this topic. Instead choosing to pivot into the future of whats to come.

Initial reaction from this poster is that it raises a flag. Foregoing proper justice in exchange for a better world (should denuclearization happen..this time) would seem like a rational trade-off, but does it mean we are letting go of what we as Americans stand for as a nation? A hard pill to swallow.

On the other hand, we as humans have generally tried to highlight and live by the greater good. Many of us sacrifice our lives for our families and friends and we also have relatives who've died so that freedom can stay intact.

It would be difficult to overlook, and a political nightmare, the past indiscretions of KJU but is it necessary for what may be a one shot deal at peace in the Korean Peninsula?

It sounds good, sure. Would we have done the same for past dictators? Perhaps he should stand in front of a tribunal? Lastly, were he to be removed from power, would this opportunity cease and would North Korea support the next chairman?




posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 04:35 AM
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Yes, www.abovetopsecret.com...

If he shoots straight, while he is not unbloodied he is not yet his father. He has a great opportunity before him. China must be very, very attentive to his other ear at this very moment. If he ditches the plan, it is because China is pressured to offer a similar deal and denuclearization is a foregone conclusion.

Kim must know he will get a deal, with China or the US. The US is a better choice, especially in this position of negotiation. Russia knows this as well as they met with China already in the last few days, and more so now that this summit bore fruit (whatever naysayers may spit). Those crazy Americans finally elected someone with clout, stout and thus far in the face of the Deep State, a redoubt.

Anyone who fails to see this for their partisan babblings will likely not openly admit their idiocy later in life.

Trump isn't some limp wristed fake handshaking Canadian PM, he pulls the strings up their buttocks for fun. 4-D.
edit on 12-6-2018 by wakeupstupid because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 04:39 AM
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a reply to: wakeupstupid

Your thread was certainly a part of the thought process for this one.

That is an important tidbit:



while he is not unbloodied he is not yet his father.


However it's the same as saying, "well, he only had a few people killed." It's puts America in a tight spot regarding who we'll deal with.

If at all possible, although political, we can keep the major partisan points out, this could be a constructive thread.




posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 04:41 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: wakeupstupid

Your thread was certainly a part of the thought process for this one.

That is an important tidbit:



while he is not unbloodied he is not yet his father.


However it's the same as saying, "well, he only had a few people killed." It's puts America in a tight spot regarding who we'll deal with.

If at all possible, although political, we can keep the major partisan points out, this could be a constructive thread.



So did the average soldier, as Jordan Peterson succinctly put it: "If you were in Nazi Gernamy, you'd likely be a Nazi."
www.youtube.com...

How many of those people, as Peterson discussed, would then have opted to change the status quo for fear of rejecting the crowd? Hardly any, so in the end Kim may prove braver than most. He will likely not sleep easy around his military brass and their aspirations to further the groupthink of the country. What a hero one could be?

Racism and hatred runs deep, but it only matters whether in the end it could be let go. Let's not let Kim show a better face in this regard, if he is a straight shooter. Oh, that would be a sad day for this country.

I'm a Libertarian if anything, and hardly. I think most people don't think their own thoughts. I seek those that do and we have great discussions.


edit on 12-6-2018 by wakeupstupid because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 04:48 AM
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It will come down to how the free press markets Kim. As it stands now, seems like Trump gets all the bad press (lies) and his poor wife too. There is just no respect these days. I think of the press as a "marketing gang" to destroy Trumps achievements and future ones also.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:13 AM
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Gaddafi had gotten free and clear of the blood on his hands (till the hag came along), if he sticks to the deal and opens things up and allows north and south to travel to see family etc.. but it cant be half measures.

Yea he can be redeemed as far as people judging him, will he get a pass when he dies *shrugs* not my job to say.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:13 AM
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originally posted by: musicismagic
It will come down to how the free press markets Kim. As it stands now, seems like Trump gets all the bad press (lies) and his poor wife too. There is just no respect these days. I think of the press as a "marketing gang" to destroy Trumps achievements and future ones also.


So in reality it will come down to how Trump deals with the press, actually. If Kim is getting a free pass, likely any way this goes, it is up to Trump to put any real meat in with the potatoes.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:15 AM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
Yea he can be redeemed as far as people judging him, will he get a pass when he dies *shrugs* not my job to say.


All sin is equal in the eye's of God because it started with the most heinous crime, denying the will of God. However that plays out is dependent on one's salvation in life, as I recall.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:23 AM
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Hussein and Gaddafi.

More than likely, if North Korea gives into U.S. demands, Kim will still be the leader of his country as the aforementioned men were...

Until... that day...



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:26 AM
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originally posted by: Psilocyborg
Hussein and Gaddafi.

More than likely, if North Korea gives into U.S. demands, Kim will still be the leader of his country as the aforementioned men were...

Until... that day...


I disagree. Kim is just as clear in his negotiations and if he believes this is not the case that he will remain in power and untouched, he would not have even signed the document or met with Trump. This is a death dance, for each man. Why bother if it were going to be fruitless?

Trump will follow through with tangible goods before the election or die a political and corporate death for the rest of his life.
Kim will not prefer to actually die.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:27 AM
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Idk OP. It seems to me people are quick to dismiss the actions a known dictator that has potentially killed thousands of his own people. If the world is ok with it, then I guess he will be redeemed.

I can guarantee you he will not have the same results after he dies. He will pay with his soul in the end.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:28 AM
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originally posted by: WarPig1939
Idk OP. It seems to me people are quick to dismiss the actions a known dictator that has potentially killed thousands of his own people. If the world is ok with it, then I guess he will be redeemed.

I can guarantee you he will not have the same results after he dies. He will pay with his soul in the end.


Like Saul of Tarsus, The Christian Slayer? I meant to say, The Greatest Apostle, Paul... Same guy... the one that wrote most of the New Testament you're kind of quoting via his letters telling people how wrong they were in their acts of faith...


as he was among the greatest of the missionaries spreading the words of Jesus Christ. Further, he is an example that anyone, even the most hardened unbeliever or the vilest heretic, can be created anew by our loving Savior.

Taken From Some Leisurely Reading: www.osv.com...
edi t on 12-6-2018 by wakeupstupid because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:32 AM
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a reply to: wakeupstupid


I wasn't quoting anything but sharing my opinion. It is quite interesting how I made the same parallel...Oh and if the world found out Kim was raping women and girls, would the world still redeem Kim?


edit on 12-6-2018 by WarPig1939 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:33 AM
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originally posted by: WarPig1939
a reply to: wakeupstupid


almost...Oh and if the world found out Kim was raping women and girls, would that still redeem Kim?



Not the world, the world never redeemed Paul. God did. That was your point, right? He died in persecution and imprisonment, if you recall...



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:34 AM
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originally posted by: wakeupstupid

originally posted by: WarPig1939
a reply to: wakeupstupid


almost...Oh and if the world found out Kim was raping women and girls, would that still redeem Kim?



Not the world, the world never redeemed Paul. God did. That was your point, right? He died in persecution and imprisonment, if you recall...


Yes. God will be the ultimate judge on that. That was indeed my point.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:35 AM
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originally posted by: WarPig1939

originally posted by: wakeupstupid

originally posted by: WarPig1939
a reply to: wakeupstupid


almost...Oh and if the world found out Kim was raping women and girls, would that still redeem Kim?



Not the world, the world never redeemed Paul. God did. That was your point, right? He died in persecution and imprisonment, if you recall...


Yes. God will be the ultimate judge on that. That was indeed my point.


Agreed, just catching you up to speed on the topic, the precedents, and your faith.


Perhaps the OP should be, can we still be Christian if we refuse to forgive a straight shooting Kim coming to the table? The deepest questions are the ones that I ponder at 6am.
edit on 12-6-2018 by wakeupstupid because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:43 AM
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a reply to: wakeupstupid


Thank you for that!
We have so much to learn still. We have many more lessons to be taught about ourselves.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:45 AM
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I'm willing to forgive Trump for this, though it may come back in a major way in the future to bite him in the ass, if North Korea becomes an enemy again and they have to start paying attention to the crimes again. But you know, Russia and China aren't virtuous either and we're mostly friendly with them, because it's profitable. This new hostility with Russia is mostly due to geopolitics. So it's a bit arbitrary to draw the line at North Korea, even though it would appear that their crimes are extraordinary.

a reply to: wakeupstupid

What makes you think Kim is on bad terms with the military leadership? I'm sure they want to build bombs and stuff, but that's not the be all and end all of strategy.

It may be misleading to compare America's MIC with NK. They already use up 25% of the GDP, but more importantly they don't actually make money on wars, like American companies do. It's not even a free economy, right? They use all the resources to defend NK and keep the brass in power. Americans don't have to worry about that, they fight totally different types of wars, for economical purposes. NK can't use a missile to defeat their enemies, but they can use it to get better deals internationally. Now if they finally have their missiles, I believe even general will see it's a means to an end.

And NK is already the ultimate Rolls Royce of groupthink and xenophobia. It's hard to believe that preserving that would be the main motivator for these generals, when that culture is so strong already.



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:46 AM
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originally posted by: WarPig1939
Idk OP. It seems to me people are quick to dismiss the actions a known dictator that has potentially killed thousands of his own people. If the world is ok with it, then I guess he will be redeemed.

I can guarantee you he will not have the same results after he dies. He will pay with his soul in the end.


Did he not have his own brother killed?



posted on Jun, 12 2018 @ 05:48 AM
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Seriously what's the alternative?

A nuclear war with North Korea?

It seems the world is never happy. Remove dictators and we opine about how bad we are for doing so. Leave dictators in place and we opine what bad people we are.

The world is a nasty place with a lot more nasty people than just Kim... high time we get over it. If "Redemption" helps avert war and potentially leads to a better life for the poor people in NK than what exactly is so hard about swallowing that pill?




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