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Alien Life must exist according to the Laws of Physics

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posted on Jun, 13 2018 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: HiddenWaters
That is why science reared its ugly head-prove your vision, otherwise I do not have to worship your version of reality!

For smaller, engineered things like cars and drugs and farming, I completely agree. But for larger issues, like experiencing our headlong rush into non-existence in a largely chaotic (or empty) universe, science is silent. We can only hope that while we're alive our kings are benevolent.




posted on Jun, 13 2018 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: majickJimi

Yes well the planet in question is irrelevant, merely an example of how there are far older celestial bodies nearby than the earth.

For curiosity's sake it's exoplanet candidate Kapteyn b.



Well, actually the planet, or more properly, the star is quite relevant.

And, unfortunately the star you seem to be trying to describe probably isn't suitable for any form of advanced life...due to its stellar type and class.

The name you gave isn't translatable into a Hipparcos star identification, so I am left to presume that it is one of the many, many, class "M" stars that inhabit space...most of which are too small, and too "dim" to support much more than single- celled life forms.

And, you overlooked a prime example of what you are trying to illustrate; 82 Eridani, HIP15510. It is about 20ly (6parsec) and is an 11 billion+ year old class "G" star. Much better suited for what you want.



I purposely chose a celestial body in our own galaxy so as to hint at the possibility of an alien civilisation far superior to us being a stones throw away from an alien's perspective. Had they been looking, digging and monitoring just like us, we would no doubt have had contact at some point, rather quickly.

In reference to your post which essentially focuses on human space exploration as a measuring stick of progress towards finding alien life in the cosmos... well advanced aliens would have found us quicker with technology that's million's of years beyond humans!


When One goes looking for life in space, it helps to know where to look. And you are dead wrong about the focus of anything I've written so far.

And, yes advanced aliens would have found Earth probably long ago, or maybe not. When we look at extremely old stars and the kinds of life that may have spawned there we must remember that in 11 billion years it is entirely possible that several advanced civilizations may have called that star Home, and subsequently vanished. Most of the other stars are vastly closer to Sol's age, and thus may not have a civilization significantly more advanced than Earth, some may not be as advanced...some may still have simple life that is still evolving.

I would consider the probability of a civilization millions of years more advanced to be ridiculously low.

Well, after some looking I found your star; Kapteyn's Star a class M1 some 12.76ly age about 11 billion. A class M1 is a small, very dim Red Star, planets will orbit very close, and be tidally locked. The best hope for native life would be a single celled slime of some sort. Kind of like what Earth had at 1 billion years...


edit on 6 13 2018 by majickJimi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2018 @ 02:09 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: majickJimi

A useful space warp cannot be created by the motion of the craft. There are two reasons for this. In order to have a useful space warp, it has to be similar in dimensions to those described in modern thinking on the subject, ergo a kind of warp drive, or what is also known these days as an Albecurrie drive, after the boffin who showed that it would be possible to propel a craft that way, rather than just surmising its practicality as a plot device in a science fiction show.


I'm not sure I agree with you on that, but, I suppose science will eventually have a more accurate answer.




Otherwise, its more like a cavitation effect, and creating a bubble of warped space that just encompasses the object does nothing for it. The effect needs to be precisely modulated and controlled, not just a result of initial acceleration. Also, there is no reason discussing space warp related propulsion, unless we are looking to reach and indeed EXCEED the speed of light at some point. The reason I say that, is that space is large, and our lifetimes are short, and I for one do not accept the premise that the best we can do, is to accept the limitations of generational ships, where people live and die for hundreds of years, before finally arriving at a destination worth going to.

We can, and must, have a future which contains FAR better turnaround time than that.


Actually, that "warp bubble" would do many things; 1) increase the apparent mass of our object, thus affecting local space time and by virtue of it motion create a (probably lesser) space warp that has the same effect as an Albecurrie drive, 2) create a significant amount of inertial frame dragging thus causing a further warp in space-time.

The overall effect of all this would be to shorten the transit time from point A to point B.

In any case; one day science will solve that riddle for us.



posted on Jun, 13 2018 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: majickJimi

Ok, so you confirm then to your knowledge, in our Galaxy, there is no planet where an Alien civilisation may have progressed to be millions of years ahead of us in terms of technology. Or at least you confirm the probability is very low?

The planet or star is irrelevant, because I simply wanted to state the above possibility. I admire your knowledge on celestial bodies, but the detail you went into detracted from my obvious point - we're unlikely to be the most advanced species in our galaxy if we aren't the only ones in our galaxy or universe even. Meaning we would discovered some tangible evidence of contact with alien life by now as they would have reached us many times/long ago/ left some trail.
edit on 13-6-2018 by ISeekTruth101 because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-6-2018 by ISeekTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2018 @ 05:20 PM
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originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: majickJimi

Ok, so you confirm then to your knowledge, in our Galaxy, there is no planet where an Alien civilisation may have progressed to be millions of years ahead of us in terms of technology. Or at least you confirm the probability is very low?


You should have read the post you are replying to, if you had you would have seen a comment about 82 Eridani; an 11+ billion year old star that is of an appropriate stellar class (Class G...like Sol)

And the probability I mentioned was for significant (evolved / higher life) existing around a Class M star
.



The planet or star is irrelevant, because I simply wanted to state the above possibility. I admire your knowledge on celestial bodies, but the detail you went into detracted from my obvious point - we're unlikely to be the most advanced species in our galaxy if we aren't the only ones in our galaxy or universe even. Meaning we would discovered some tangible evidence of contact with alien life by now as they would have reached us many times/long ago/ left some trail.


Actually, Earth may be far more likely to be one of the most advanced civilizations in this "sector" of space (say within 150ly or so). In our galaxy; prolly not so much, but, I will hasten to add, that there prolly aren't ANY that are significantly more advanced than Earth. As in; no species or civilization more than several hundred years more advanced, anything more than that would probably be unrecognizable, and may not fit the "construct" of civilization as we know it.

There is a nearly 15,000 year history of alien contact, complete with artifacts; all you need do is accept. There are also modern artifacts that are, in my opinion, undeniable; such as the Hill case and Betty's "map".



posted on Jun, 13 2018 @ 07:02 PM
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High intelligence is an extremely rare trait. It's a fluke. It's not part of the evolutionary path nor the ultimate end result. It is not necessary for the success of a species and is a useless branch that serves absolutely no purpose. It could be argued that it's counter-productive to a planet and any life form that exists on it because of its selfish self-destructive behavior. As apes we were perfectly capable of surviving as a species, there was no evolutionary reason for high intelligence.

How can anyone argue against the rarity of high intelligence when Earth is the perfect host and it has only happened once in billions of years over billions of species? If it was a trait required for life it would have evolved throughout multiple species. In the 8.7 million species that are said to live on Earth today in this perfect environment, where are the others with high intelligence? Only 1 in 8.7 million? I think the argument is strong for high intelligence to be an unlikely outcome on a planet even within a perfect "goldilock" zone. However, given the possible billions of Earth-like planets, it would be ignorant to say it's not possible.

The likelihood of high intelligence evolving, combined with the distance needed to be traveled, combined with the 0.002% time frame humans have existed relative to the history of the universe don't make for a likely scenario that we're being visited by aliens today.
edit on 13-6-2018 by Ectoplasm8 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2018 @ 07:05 PM
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originally posted by: majickJimi

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: majickJimi
Ok, so you confirm then to your knowledge, in our Galaxy, there is no planet where an Alien civilisation may have progressed to be millions of years ahead of us in terms of technology. Or at least you confirm the probability is very low?


You should have read the post you are replying to, if you had you would have seen a comment about 82 Eridani; an 11+ billion year old star that is of an appropriate stellar class (Class G...like Sol)

And the probability I mentioned was for significant (evolved / higher life) existing around a Class M star


The planet or star is irrelevant, because I simply wanted to state the above possibility. I admire your knowledge on celestial bodies, but the detail you went into detracted from my obvious point - we're unlikely to be the most advanced species in our galaxy if we aren't the only ones in our galaxy or universe even. Meaning we would discovered some tangible evidence of contact with alien life by now as they would have reached us many times/long ago/ left some trail.


Actually, Earth may be far more likely to be one of the most advanced civilizations in this "sector" of space (say within 150ly or so). In our galaxy; prolly not so much, but, I will hasten to add, that there prolly aren't ANY that are significantly more advanced than Earth. As in; no species or civilization more than several hundred years more advanced, anything more than that would probably be unrecognizable, and may not fit the "construct" of civilization as we know it.

There is a nearly 15,000 year history of alien contact, complete with artifacts; all you need do is accept. There are also modern artifacts that are, in my opinion, undeniable; such as the Hill case and Betty's "map".


Hmmmmmm... "majick"... "prolly"... "Hill star map" Is that you tanka418?



posted on Jun, 13 2018 @ 07:32 PM
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originally posted by: neoholographic
I say Alien life must exist because the universe is fine tuned to for life to exist. We look at this in the wrong way.

Yes, we do look at it the wrong way.
The universe isn't fine tuned for life!

Life is fine tuned to the universe.

Without life the universe would still exist.
Without the universe life wouldn't exist.



posted on Jun, 14 2018 @ 06:35 AM
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originally posted by: majickJimi

You should have read the post you are replying to, if you had you would have seen a comment about 82 Eridani; an 11+ billion year old star that is of an appropriate stellar class (Class G...like Sol)

And the probability I mentioned was for significant (evolved / higher life) existing around a Class M star
.



I asked you a very simple question, in fact I went out of my way to word my question as simply and directly as possible, yet you still managed to convolute your response and beat around the bush. I'm not concerned with ANY class planet, a simple answer would be YES or NO backed up with a single statement expressing why.

I asked for the probability of ANY advanced ALIEN species in our Galaxybesides our own,



Actually, Earth may be far more likely to be one of the most advanced civilizations in this "sector" of space (say within 150ly or so). In our galaxy; prolly not so much, but, I will hasten to add, that there prolly aren't ANY that are significantly more advanced than Earth. As in; no species or civilization more than several hundred years more advanced, anything more than that would probably be unrecognizable, and may not fit the "construct" of civilization as we know it.


Why are you talking about sector? In my original question I emphasised 'Galaxy' not sector. I can't fathom why you cannot answer any question directly, it shouldn't be that hard unless you want to hide the truth about the matter.

"Anything more than a hundred years may not fit the construct of 'civilisation"

Why? because you say so? again side stepping the original question which references 'advanced species' lets safely assume that an 'advanced' species still act as collective population for all intensive purposes. Otherwise how did they progress to become advanced in the first place if not acting collectively...



There is a nearly 15,000 year history of alien contact, complete with artifacts; all you need do is accept. There are also modern artifacts that are, in my opinion, undeniable; such as the Hill case and Betty's "map".


No there is not 15 000 years of alien contact, just from your perspective and maybe a select few others (minority)

None of what you mention counts as evidence, it is just baseless interpretation that's reaching too far to justify a slim possibility.

All those accounts and artefacts are deniable, I could take a Star Trek film back in time and they would use it as definitive proof of alien civisilations - it's all imagination and conjecture with no real proof.

It is obvious now that you are a hardheaded alien believer who isn't open to the possibility that complex life only exists on earth. We can part ways on this topic now.

edit on 14-6-2018 by ISeekTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2018 @ 08:45 AM
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originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

I asked you a very simple question, in fact I went out of my way to word my question as simply and directly as possible, yet you still managed to convolute your response and beat around the bush. I'm not concerned with ANY class planet, a simple answer would be YES or NO backed up with a single statement expressing why.


Yes you did, and I gave you as simple an answer as I could. You should understand that there are no simple answers here.

Then I tried to assist you by providing you with a viable example star system, then you seem to have become confused.

So, here, a simple answer to your question; NO. Because of the star and planet chosen the answer is NO...no probability that ANY form of advanced life as long as we are discussing class M stars.

When considering life elsewhere One has to consider stellar "class" and "type" these two parameters tell almost the whole story about life probabilities around any given star, AND, there is a rather narrow range of star that can support life as we would like to discuss.



I asked for the probability of ANY advanced ALIEN species in our Galaxybesides our own,
,


That probability would be "1".




Why are you talking about sector? In my original question I emphasised 'Galaxy' not sector. I can't fathom why you cannot answer any question directly, it shouldn't be that hard unless you want to hide the truth about the matter.


Well partly because a civilization 70,000ly from here would probably never come in contact with Terrestrial Humans.
Course, that's only my opinion based on the extreme distance. So, I tend to only consider local stars, say 150ly or so.



"Anything more than a hundred years may not fit the construct of 'civilisation"

Why? because you say so? again side stepping the original question which references 'advanced species' lets safely assume that an 'advanced' species still act as collective population for all intensive purposes. Otherwise how did they progress to become advanced in the first place if not acting collectively...


No, not because I say so. Did you know that virtually ALL the wonderous technology you enjoy so much is less than 50 years old? Its true, the single component all of todays technology
is based upon, or reliant upon, was invented about 48 years ago in Silicon Valley. its also the most ignored Human innovation, and more significant than the wheel)



No there is not 15 000 years of alien contact, just from your perspective and maybe a select few others (minority)

None of what you mention counts as evidence, it is just baseless interpretation that's reaching too far to justify a slim possibility.

All those accounts and artefacts are deniable, I could take a Star Trek film back in time and they would use it as definitive proof of alien civisilations - it's all imagination and conjecture with no real proof.

It is obvious now that you are a hardheaded alien believer who isn't open to the possibility that complex life only exists on earth. We can part ways on this topic now.


Well gee, ya know there are written accounts that date back to ancient Sumer, and that's not just my perspective, and there is actually a rather significant body of work by archeologists nd other scientists that support this notion.

And yes One can deny some of the artifacts, but, then IF one did they may just be displaying their ignorance. Take the map that Betty Hill gave us. That map is actually a view of real world stars within 150ly of Earth, as viewed from a place where Terrestrial Humans can not go as yet...this is PROVEN fact. I invite you to do the work (experiment) yourself. Then you can see the proof, and gain an appreciation for the vanishingly small probability that the drawing (artifact) is not a star map.

And, no, I am NOT a "hardheaded alien believer", just someone who has had a glimpse at the actual probabilities. And they are vanishingly small that Earth has the only complex life, yet, it should be understood that Earth may be one of the more advanced civilizations in our neighborhood.

Stars like Tau Seti that are a billion years older than Sol, probably don't have any civilization a billion years older than Earth.



posted on Jun, 14 2018 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: Ectoplasm8


That question isn't relevant, what IS RELEVANT is the validity of the data, if you wish to challenge that (the data) please feel free. If you need a link just say so...



posted on Jun, 14 2018 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
Without life the universe would still exist.

That's a tough one to prove.



posted on Jun, 14 2018 @ 06:13 PM
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This is all quite pointless. No one knows! My opinion is I believe there is a good chance life is out there in the universe, but it is just an opinion. Until we find evidence, then no one knows for sure.



posted on Jun, 14 2018 @ 08:19 PM
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originally posted by: Jay-morris
This is all quite pointless. No one knows! My opinion is I believe there is a good chance life is out there in the universe, but it is just an opinion. Until we find evidence, then no one knows for sure.


What about those who have seen saucers up close with non human creatures walking around? I have seen creatures and a craft in 1987. I have ex-military relatives who have seen things they thought was just fantasy until they saw it.

I think your statements are true, but only for main stream academia and such. They of course won't even study these things because that would just be crazy.


For myself this question has long been answered, and I don't need a consensus pat on the back to feel legitimate about it. That's okay too.



posted on Jun, 15 2018 @ 04:46 AM
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originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Jay-morris
This is all quite pointless. No one knows! My opinion is I believe there is a good chance life is out there in the universe, but it is just an opinion. Until we find evidence, then no one knows for sure.


What about those who have seen saucers up close with non human creatures walking around? I have seen creatures and a craft in 1987. I have ex-military relatives who have seen things they thought was just fantasy until they saw it.

I think your statements are true, but only for main stream academia and such. They of course won't even study these things because that would just be crazy.


For myself this question has long been answered, and I don't need a consensus pat on the back to feel legitimate about it. That's okay too.


I am a huge believer that some ufos defy explanation and need serious investigation. I believe they are being investigation seriously behind close doors, and the leave the debunkers and believers to argue and debate with themselves.

It is quite obvious that something is going on here, what it is, I do not know.




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