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Originally posted by OldThinker
Never done this before. Very interesting discussion. A lot of you have well thought out ideas. First of all, the longer I live the more I realize I don't know. Life is a bit more complicated than I thought it would be when I was in my 20/30's. I AM a Christian, by that I mean I have chosen to believe that I am imperfect and needed His intervention. I have come to this conclusion primarily upon LOGIC, not faith. Faith is one of those enigma's in today's vocabulary that has lost it's meaning or has been interpreted differently by so many. My journey to this conclusion has a few factors that I will share with the forum/thread.
Again before I go on I will try and be LOGIC-based and not bring in a bunch of Christian-eze mumbo jumbo.
Remember Back to the Future and the Delorian (sp?) Imagine if you were Micheal J Fox and some one asked you to go to five (only 5) different time zones/geographical areas and meet one person in each time zone/area and ask them, "please write a book about God, I'll be back in 5 years to collect it."
Five years later you went and picked up the five books. Logically speaking what are the chances those five books would agree? What are the chances those five books would build upon one another? What are the chances you could make any semblance out of them...to live by or the like? Snowballs in your know where, right?
Different people! Different cultures! Difference Time frames! Different Premises! Different World view! etc etc...
Logically speaking you would have five unconnected books with five different perspectives, right?
Well, the Bible (torah, prophets, gospels, epistles, revelation) are not 5 books by five authors, but66 books by 40 authors...who did not know one another, did not live in the same town, did not live in the same time line...authors were of every occupation and financial status........yet......the Bible is a one-themed, continuing story. Doesn't prove it God's Word yet though...just something that might warrant another look.
Here's an undisputable fact (I believe at least after examining) Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be God, his followers claimed He claimed to be God...and...non Christian journalist (such as Josephus) claimed He claimed he was God. Doesn't appear here to be different agendas going on. He said it, His followers said He said it, third parties said He said it and even his enemies said He said it (Sanhedrin, Pharisies, etc)
SO...with all that said...we have only two LOGICAL outcomes. No religious double-talk here) Either you BELIEVE or you REJECT. Really no other options right? If you believe, then to you HE IS LORD. If you REJECT there are really only two options for you.
1) JC knew he wasn't telling the truth, therefore he would be A LIAR
2) JC didn't know he wasn't telling the truth, therefore he would be A LUNATIC.
That's the only three logical outcomes...LIAR, LUNATIC of LORD. There is no room for him being a good guy and all, no room for him being a prophet as every other religion on the face of the earth calls him. Because prophets don't lie and they are not usually in psych wards.
Most direct followers were killed for believing in JC. If they had stole his body and the romans excused, at least one of them would have squilled just before their execution right? I would have...but NO-All these ordinary folks were willing to die for what they saw...WOW!
I have much more reasons why I choose now to believe, that I'll share later. hope this creates some more interesting discussions. Thanks for the opportunity guys!
[edit on 19-2-2005 by OldThinker]
Originally posted by OldThinker
Five years later you went and picked up the five books. Logically speaking what are the chances those five books would agree?
Here's an undisputable fact (I believe at least after examining) Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be God, his followers claimed He claimed to be God...and...non Christian journalist (such as Josephus) claimed He claimed he was God.
Originally posted by blueymorgan
So, Let's all start again. For the usual fanatics, (ie) the Fundamentalists, you have no time to waste reading these kind of websites anyway, aren't you supposed to be getting ready for the Big Event.
You bloody fools, all of you! Stop taking up so much space on the internet with such waste-of-time crap, and get a life...then do something with it
Originally posted by Amuk
Do you have ANYTHING to back up your statements?
The entire point of the thread is to offer up your evidence proving or disproving the Bible
[edit on 19-2-2005 by Amuk]
Ypu fail to make the connection. Outside of the "we" references when God speaks, Genesis purports to tell us that one God is responsible for everything, and polytheism is not mentioned witin this context for approximately 1500 years. Since we are to believe that the sons of Noah believing in one God populated the area, and the story picks up from Shem's line covering some unknown area from Mesha to Sephar, where we know Assyria is one of those areas, then we should be expecting to have found proof of a One God or Jewish setllement in Assyria, that is older than polytheism, but we have not. Instead what we find is a ziggurat, evidence of an 8th century king and polytheism.
Originally posted by AmukSomewhereinBetween
I disagree about the monotheism part for the simple reason that the earlier books of the Bible often mention other "Gods" so even they did not claim to worship only one. Why would they need a commandment against it then?
Originally posted by Amuk
Originally posted by Seapeople
In one of the posts I did recently, I mathematicall concluded that the water needed to create a flood described in the bible would be impossible to obtain.
I am sure you saw the thread. Do you disagree with it? Does anyone disagree with it. If so, can anyone explain as to how I was wrong?
I cannot disagree but maybe some others would care to try.
I always wondered where the water went? The Ice caps arent large enough to hold it all, are they?
“The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; For the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. (Gen.6:11-13)
The cosmogony, or the religious teaching concerning the creation of the Universe as taught by Egyptian religion, in particular the city of Heliopolis was evolved in a city that was the center of the cult of Ra, the supreme Godhead made visible in the sun.
Originally posted by infinite
The true bible codes, the hidden messages, is too complex for a human mind to write. The codes are placed with detail meanings ,and accurate aswell, that its has been proven its sciencetifically impossible for it to be coindence.
The book of Daniel and Revelations are perfect examples of how the Bible is the word of God. Example of a code in the bible that proves it before it is said to happen. Russia and Iran. The bible code predicts Russia will aid Iran when it is attacked by America/Israel..Russia has already came to the aid with Iran by stating they are not planning to build nuclear weapons.