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Would you accept a no-raise promotion?

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posted on Jun, 9 2018 @ 07:20 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
If I am making a move that will benefit my family, then I will. They will always, always come before coworkers.


I disagree. A person is a person. Relationships are arbitrary and a matter of chance. There's nothing that says one person should be worth more than another.




posted on Jun, 9 2018 @ 07:48 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Nope, sorry. Family will always, always come first.



posted on Jun, 9 2018 @ 07:57 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Edumakated

I disagree about longterm vs short term. It's more like shortsighted selfish indicidual vs longsighted individual that recognise the damage done in the long term.

Sure taking the position might help said person in the long term but it also hurts everyone else in the long term as well in a far greater way than it helps them.

Not taking the position means not accepting more work for less pay as well as helping ensure others don't have to and discouraging such practices. The willing to do anything and accept any treatment to get aheaf mentality does nothing but hurt everyone else. If people would have some damn self respect and in turn demand respect as well then employers would not be in a position to treat us as they do.

We're so damn busy throwing everyone under the bus to get ahead we're setting the bar lower and lower every day by making more and more predatory business practices acceptable.

It makes me sick.


In some cases, the business may not necessarily be able to pay. It can be a win-win for both employer and employee. Startups frequently pay less that comparable positions but entice high talent with stock options. In some cases, early employees may get no compensation. However, if the company takes off, those stock options could be worth millions. Long-term thinkers have to assess the risk.

I read a story about how some artist who painted a mural at Facebook's early office got paid in stock grants because they couldn't afford to pay him. Of course, the guy is a multi-millionaire now. He could have thought short-term and turned his nose up. Sure he may have gotten the $10k or whatever he charged for a mural, but he wouldn't be a multi-millionaire.

In some cases, people work for free just so they can get some experience and get their foot in a door. Once they have the experience, they can then command higher compensation.

What I see are two different types of people responding. Worker bees and leaders. Worker bees can't see beyond their present 9 to 5. Leaders and bosses understand risk and reward. Sometimes you have to take a risk or even a step back to reap a much larger reward.

This has nothing to do with selling out. I don't work at a company out of any loyalty to other employees. I work out of loyalty to my family and my own well being which is what takes priority. Advancing one's own interest sometimes requires you to make sacrifices.

Like I said in my response, it depends on the situation. If it is a win-win where there may be some long-term benefit, then yes, I'd take on more responsibility. If it is just a situation where you feel you are being taken advantage of, then you simply say No or find another job.



posted on Jun, 9 2018 @ 08:20 PM
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I will admit that the last 2 years things have gotten A LOT better.


These last two years have been brutal and it doesn't look like it getting better. Times are lean and mean.

Multiple store closings and vacant business real estate and in areas where if a space opened up, there is another business in there the next day. Nowadays, some store fronts go empty for months on end.

Even in the upper pay grades (wealthy) areas, stores are going and ain't coming back. If it wasn't for grocery stores (not talking WalMart) it would be a curtains in some of these places.



posted on Jun, 9 2018 @ 11:16 PM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
It is almost like you can tell who are the worker drones commenting and who are the managers commenting. I guess it all depends on what side of the fence you are. Self preservation for management trying to eek out all they can so their budget looks good versus the worker trying to keep their head above water.

I am glad I have never left the worker drone world. I would probably hate myself being a supervisor or manager at my company. You can definitely see how much management has to compromise with their morals and speak falsely because telling the truth would expose the game.

You can also tell the good socialists 'good for the company/nation' at the expense of the individual from the lovers of freedom. When people aren't true to themselves foremost is when things start going downhill.


I am a Director of HR and Accounting and I completely agree with you, except that bit about distinguishing the worker drones from the managers. Employers will screw over good workers at every opportunity.

Think about this one: They always talk a big game about loyalty, and how much it is encouraged, appreciated, rewarded, etc... But the fact is, they don't encourage it. They discourage it. Let's say Joe Blow works at #hole Enterprises. It's been a few years and he hasn't seen a raise (because companies are horrible about giving annual raises). He asks the boss for an increase, and the boss gives him some mumbo jumbo about the budget being tight and how the employee is making a fair market wage, but... out of the kindness of his heart, the boss agrees to give ol' Joe a 3% raise. In fact, the company policy will not allow for more than that. Joe decides to seek employment elsewhere, and #hole company hires a new person to fill Joe's position at 15% more than Joe was making. This happens all the time.

In addition, to the people who are saying work hard, do extra, people notice, blah blah.... Yes, they notice. They notice who they can use. Every time they need something, there they are at your office, because you get it done. It will not get you more money. Mind you, where I work, I know what everyone makes, and I know what they do. My dual role informs me on just about everything. The people who have been hired making a lot, were complete BS artists. They talk a big game, and when it starts to become evident that they aren't going to succeed, they bail (usually about a year). This is after the company happily paid them ridiculous salaries. Unfortunately, I am not a BS artist. I bear a lot of responsibility in my position, but I make less than all of the managers (except one) that are in positions below me. My boss agrees it's not fair, but says that's just the way it is.

If they ask for more from you, get more from them. Period. Don't be like me.



posted on Jun, 9 2018 @ 11:51 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Aazadan

Nope, sorry. Family will always, always come first.


That's a common viewpoint. It just doesn't make sense to me. I evaluate the well being of my friends, family, and random people as being equal. It's a necessity in order to eliminate prejudice in life. It doesn't mean I don't speak to acquaintances and family more, just because of my social circle. But I don't see how it's right to elevate their well being above that of anyone elses.



posted on Jun, 9 2018 @ 11:53 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated
In some cases, the business may not necessarily be able to pay. It can be a win-win for both employer and employee. Startups frequently pay less that comparable positions but entice high talent with stock options. In some cases, early employees may get no compensation. However, if the company takes off, those stock options could be worth millions. Long-term thinkers have to assess the risk.


I think the OP's original question though had to do with increased responsibility without any increase in compensation. In that situation I still think the smart thing to do is to take the added responsibility if you're interested in career advancement. I do understand why many will pass on it though.



posted on Jun, 9 2018 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: notquiteright

I'm a big believer in breaking the taboo on keeping pay a secret. Everyone in my building knows what everyone else makes. The company may not like that, but they can't stop us from talking, and it has resulted in most having better negotiating leverage when getting hired.



posted on Jun, 10 2018 @ 12:38 AM
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Statistically, if im lucky, i got 50 years left on this rock, and then nothing. I plan on spending as much of that as i can with the people and animals I love. If the promotion served that end in someway, like a better schedule, then yeah. If not, then no way.



posted on Jun, 10 2018 @ 12:46 AM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Aazadan

Nope, sorry. Family will always, always come first.


That's a common viewpoint. It just doesn't make sense to me. I evaluate the well being of my friends, family, and random people as being equal. It's a necessity in order to eliminate prejudice in life. It doesn't mean I don't speak to acquaintances and family more, just because of my social circle. But I don't see how it's right to elevate their well being above that of anyone elses.


"Family" looks out for you. Strangers dont. You take care of the people that will take care of you.



posted on Jun, 10 2018 @ 07:40 AM
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a reply to: Whoisjohngalt

Workers not having solidarity is why we have no time to spend with our families. But you know what everyone, you all do you, sacrifice the future of your children and everyone else for minor gain. When your children have to work 12 hours a day, seven days a week for a minimum of three years to hopefully get a 3 cent raise I'm sure they'll thank you all.



posted on Jun, 10 2018 @ 08:02 AM
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a reply to: toysforadults

I'd take the promotion only if there's a raise. Promotions mean more thankless work. That's why jobs pay money.



posted on Jun, 10 2018 @ 08:18 AM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

hmmm, interesting, so what's the difference between then and now?




Automation is making manufacturing a moot career path


Not entirely. Manufacturing just requires a different skill set. The company I work for manufacturers a huge range of scientific and medical equipment. Some of the simple industrial equipment requires no skill set at all to build, we literally hire walk in's off the street. This equipment also tends to not provide much revenue, it really exists just to have more branded products in labs. On the other hand, some of our big products that are complex, cutting edge machines will only hire repairmen and factory workers to assemble/repair the products that have their doctorates, or occasionally a masters. We look for chemists, biologists, and so on for these positions.

Low end manufacturing is disappearing, but the high end stuff is thriving. The workers simply haven't kept up with industry demand.


I have theories on this as well....but it mostly falls back on colleges not providing adequate job forecasting to present as information to students.



posted on Jun, 10 2018 @ 08:31 AM
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originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: notquiteright

I'm a big believer in breaking the taboo on keeping pay a secret. Everyone in my building knows what everyone else makes. The company may not like that, but they can't stop us from talking, and it has resulted in most having better negotiating leverage when getting hired.


That's why I like Glassdoor.com



posted on Jun, 10 2018 @ 08:32 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Whoisjohngalt

Workers not having solidarity is why we have no time to spend with our families. But you know what everyone, you all do you, sacrifice the future of your children and everyone else for minor gain. When your children have to work 12 hours a day, seven days a week for a minimum of three years to hopefully get a 3 cent raise I'm sure they'll thank you all.


I see where you're coming from and I kind of agree with you. If people would stop stabbing each other in the back and low balling everyone for what's essentially pennies or peanuts we would have a totally different work environment



posted on Jun, 10 2018 @ 08:36 AM
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a reply to: toysforadults

This survey overlooks the obvious. Statistics do not account for intangibles. Would I accept a promotion without a raise? Of course, if the position were more satisfying, easier, or provided a challenge I found helped me grow as a person.



posted on Jun, 10 2018 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: cenpuppie

That isn't what I am seeing. There is a strip mall near us that has only had three stores in it forever: Target, Kohl's, Babies R' Us. The Babies R' Us is going out just like Toys R' Us, but in the past 4 or 5 months there is sudden activity in the empty units. They're bringing in two new stores where there has only been a seasonal Halloween store before.

Other areas near us are similarly getting revitalized with new fronts, new stores, less empty space.



posted on Jun, 10 2018 @ 08:44 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I'll bet those new "shops" are healthcare related. Outpatient CAT scanning, that sort of thing.



posted on Jun, 10 2018 @ 08:47 AM
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a reply to: notquiteright

That's why you work smart.

I mentioned my husband? He spent a lot of time moving sideways, tackling jobs no one else wanted because they were FUBAR but he thought he could straighten them out or make them work. He did all of it, and he got recognition. It's paid off now. He more or less writes his own ticket in the company. He's on two different professional orgs, one of which is usually only open to Ph.D.s but he got in since it's also by nomination and his name was put up. He's in an industry lobbying group also by invitation.

But he spent a decade or so working in the trenches to get where he is now.



posted on Jun, 10 2018 @ 08:47 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

No. They're retail. Chain stores.



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