Would you accept a no-raise promotion?

a reply to: schuyler

The other, less obvious (or simply less palatable) solution is for people to finally accept that not everyone should go to college, and while there will always be a place for some to study English, it's not a widespread job degree but a simple scholarly one.

We need people to go into trades again on a much wider basis than they do now. The less mentally able are perfectly suited to trades a trades can make a good living for a person not saddled with college debt.

originally posted by: olaru12
If you really want to succeed get a good education at Trump University. Just can't beat that degree and credentials.

www.businessinsider.com...

My God,..you are obsessed with the President.

This isn’t even a political thread.

When I was working, I would take a promotion without a raise. If it was a change to management, you should expect a raise, but sometimes just changing jobs to one where more experience is needed doesn't require a raise. Now if the promotion means you are working a lot harder, then that means a raise is in order or if it requires way more responsibility it should have a raise attached. But work is work, I think there should not be raises unless there is longlivity and as long as the work is similar. I can see getting paid more if you know more about the job, but that would be from longlivity. I am not fond of peace work that has competition attached to it, but I do think peace work is good for many people as long as you do not have to work yourself to death to make a living.

There is a lot of variables to consider with this question. There should not be a direct yes or no involved.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: olaru12
If you really want to succeed get a good education at Trump University. Just can't beat that degree and credentials.

www.businessinsider.com...

My God,..you are obsessed with the President.

This isn’t even a political thread.

So what? Donald J Trump is the most interesting personality America has right now.

And I was totally on topic, trying to help the underemployed move up in the world of business.

New promotion means a new social media post

I heard a story, that for Star Trek, they didn’t have money for raises for everyone, so they gave charachter’s promitions.

Promotion and no raises....good little socialist.

No I would not as doing so would mean I'm part of the problem by participating in predatory workplace practices. If no one accepted such promotions then by necessity all would come with pay raises. So sick of people willing to be used in turn screwing over not only themselves but everyone else.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

hmmm, interesting, so what's the difference between then and now?

Automation is making manufacturing a moot career path

a reply to: SocratesJohnson

Produce more for less slave

Then convince the younger people its "what you have to do"

When I was young (and skinny!) I went sideways fairly often in my chosen profession, but I always made sure I was rewarded in the move with some other life improvement such as work schedule, time off, shorter work day etc.

However, now that I am old(er) and fat(er) I have the skills, I have the experience and I have the reputation. I have reached the point where I will no longer take on additional responsibilities without increased pay. I have a specific skill set and am very good at what I do. If a company wants that, they can pay what I ask.

originally posted by: toysforadults
I saw this article on LinkedIn today. Can someone explain this to me?

LinkedIn

Would you take a promotion without a raise? 64% of employees said they would, according to a survey by staffing firm OfficeTeam. That’s up from 55% in 2011. Younger workers were more willing, with 72% of 18 to 34 year olds saying they’d take a raiseless promotion and 53% of those 55 and above saying the same. This willingness may be a sign of the times: OfficeTeam found that 33% of HR managers said it was somewhat common to give out no-money promotions, up from 19% in 2011. • Here’s what people are saying.

Everyone else, I think this is a perspective that comes from younger people being screwed by the 2008 collapse of the market that never recovered. This is what has lead to the explosive popularity of Trump and Bernie Sanders. I will admit that the last 2 years things have gotten A LOT better. However I think this speaks volumes to the dire circumstances the market has been in since 2008. People will literally do anything to get ahead including taking promotions with no corresponding increase income.

Now, we all know the unemployement number tends to be BS however if the number is true and there really is that much work then this trend should no longer exist correct?

The laws of supply and demand should come into the equation and if there's not enough people working we should see a corresponding increase in wage growth and incentives that compete for more talented employees if I'm not mistaken.

Just another among dozens of other examples that the lie the media is purporting may not necessarily be true.

Depends on the situation.

Long-term strategic thinkers may see a benefit if the additional responsibility makes them more marketable outside of the employer or maybe gives them some additional skills that might increase compensation later.

Short-term thinkers probably wouldn't want additional responsibility without compensation.

Hell no. Never. Don't do it.

I'm seeing something intriguing in this thread.

I've taken on additional responsibilities before without a corresponding increase in salary. My reasoning? It's a win-win if I can handle it. If I get additional upward mobility (later raises), I make more money in the long run. If I don't get that additional upward mobility, I have extra skills I can use to get a better position in the job market. How do I lose?

If I chose not to accept the increased responsibility, I seriously doubt the company would suddenly decide to tempt me with a raise. They have made their offer, and it is likely that if I don't accept it, someone else will (assuming it is reasonable). So I can either take my chances on a win-win or sit where I am complaining about not getting a raise for something I refused to even do.

Concentrating on the money too much just means you ignore opportunities that don't give instant gratification... the best opportunities of all.

TheRedneck

*snort*

Whole bunch of posters admitting without realizing it that their skills aren't as valuable as they claim by saying they'd take a no-raise promotion. So much for being more valuable than the burger flippers they sneer at, eh? Nothing is more covertly dead-end than taking on more responsibilities, and not getting comped for it. Upward mobility counts, if you're paid accordingly for taking that route. There are always a scant few exceptions, but for this most part, a no-raise promotion is you being taken.

My husband's opinion, "Every idiot who accepts that broadcasts that they're a doormat with no backbone. The employer can milk it as long as you don't grow a pair to say 'Yo hoss, this isn't in line with this position's standard pay rate.' You ain't going far, they already got you pegged as the moron willing to do the work for less money than the next guy."

originally posted by: Montana
When I was young (and skinny!) I went sideways fairly often in my chosen profession, but I always made sure I was rewarded in the move with some other life improvement such as work schedule, time off, shorter work day etc.

However, now that I am old(er) and fat(er) I have the skills, I have the experience and I have the reputation. I have reached the point where I will no longer take on additional responsibilities without increased pay. I have a specific skill set and am very good at what I do. If a company wants that, they can pay what I ask.

When you get good at something you should get more pay. You make fewer mistakes with experience. I see no problem with getting paid more for experience. But the young just want extra pay for changing the type of work they do, that seems to be the norm nowadays for many kids. When you are older and have more experience in your field you can work unsupervised and that is a plus. To say you need a raise going from taking orders at McDs to being a cook in the kitchen does not mean you should get a raise. Same with working construction, experience and ability to work symbiotically with the crew should get you more money.

As the owner of a couple of businesses; I found out long ago that if you pretend to pay your help, they will pretend to work and steal you blind.

In the long run it's cheaper to pay your employees very well, instill a sense of loyalty and mutual trust.

I know that's an outdated business model but it works for me. I can leave my businesses in the hands of my employees while I work on a union gig and feel comfortable doing so. They aren't just my help, they are my friends and I consider them family.

a reply to: Edumakated

I disagree about longterm vs short term. It's more like shortsighted selfish indicidual vs longsighted individual that recognise the damage done in the long term.

Sure taking the position might help said person in the long term but it also hurts everyone else in the long term as well in a far greater way than it helps them.

Not taking the position means not accepting more work for less pay as well as helping ensure others don't have to and discouraging such practices. The willing to do anything and accept any treatment to get aheaf mentality does nothing but hurt everyone else. If people would have some damn self respect and in turn demand respect as well then employers would not be in a position to treat us as they do.

We're so damn busy throwing everyone under the bus to get ahead we're setting the bar lower and lower every day by making more and more predatory business practices acceptable.

It makes me sick.

a reply to: TheRedneck

That sounds nice for a perfect idealistic world, but the fact is, employers will pay you as little as they can get away with everytime. Agreeing to take on extra resposibility with no compensation is just a bad move.

They will already low ball you when making an offer. If the job normally pays x, but they know in y

It is important when making a lateral move in a company to make sure it improves your life in some way. If there isn't a pay increase then negotiate for some other improvement. Ask for less hours, better shift schedule, increased time off or what ever. You need to establish the fact that while you are willing to accept work changes without increased pay, you HAVE to be compensated in some way. Advancement is a two way street, you are performing additional work the company needs, it needs to throw you a bone somehow.

You have value, your skills have value, your energy and willingness to work have value. The hard part is making sure not to over price your "product".

Eventually the shoe will be on the other foot, and you will have more offers than you can handle.

a reply to: notquiteright

Having some kind of posting issue. Anyway, they know you make a lot less, they will offer you something very low, thinking you will be happy with it. This has happened to me a number of times. Also, when you apply at a new company, they often ask your current/previous salary.

If they want more from you, they should pay you more for it.

originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
New promotion means a new social media post

I heard a story, that for Star Trek, they didn’t have money for raises for everyone, so they gave charachter’s promitions.

Promotion and no raises....good little socialist.

In Star Trek, they had eliminated the need for money after the Bell Riots in Sanctuary District A (Past Tense episode)
Instead, everyone was given perks (larger personal rooms) and promotions based upon rank. Replicators eliminated the need for money for essential items like food and drink.

memory-alpha.wikia.com...
en.wikipedia.org...(Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine)
articles.latimes.com...

Going back to this question. "Would you accept a promotion?" Is like being asked to sign a blank cheque. A "promotion" could be many different things. It could be a move from software engineering to "management", or it could involve being involved personally for a blue sky project. Having the chance to learn more advanced technical skills would be good, but finding myself spending days attending meetings and reading minutes would just drive me insane.