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The Follies of Activism

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posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

What about the victory that MLK had? Can you somehow spin that into something bad as well?




posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

American Revolution ring any bells?



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Political campaigns are activism. Do I need to post the definition again? Seriously Les, the definition defines political rallies and campaigns to a tee.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 03:54 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: amazing




You kind of make it seem like you think Activism is bad though. Almost like it's pointless in the long run, I just wanted to point out that it's what makes this country great and that it's key to creating meaningful change.

Remember also that it wasn't just Hippies protesting the Vietnam war, many every day americans of all kinds protested the war and were instrumental in getting us out of Vietnam. Activism led the way there.


I don't like activism at all.

Yes, pacifists of all stripes protested the war. But pacifism, like activism, is more pernicious than helpful.


Wait! LOL You just said you don't like Activism at All???

Without Activism Women wouldn't have the right to Vote. Without Activism we might still be in Vietnam. Without Activism there would be no civil rights movement and India would still be under British Rule.

How can you not like that?



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




What about the victory that MLK had? Can you somehow spin that into something bad as well?


Yes I can. On or two activist "victories" is not a trend. MLK was a great man. But he did not sign any laws, and in the end, was killed for his activism.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: amazing




You kind of make it seem like you think Activism is bad though. Almost like it's pointless in the long run, I just wanted to point out that it's what makes this country great and that it's key to creating meaningful change.

Remember also that it wasn't just Hippies protesting the Vietnam war, many every day americans of all kinds protested the war and were instrumental in getting us out of Vietnam. Activism led the way there.


I don't like activism at all.

Yes, pacifists of all stripes protested the war. But pacifism, like activism, is more pernicious than helpful.


Wait! LOL You just said you don't like Activism at All???

Without Activism Women wouldn't have the right to Vote. Without Activism we might still be in Vietnam. Without Activism there would be no civil rights movement and India would still be under British Rule.

How can you not like that?


Without any activism we probably wouldn't have ATS. Now that's a horrible thought!



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Nobody was worse off, children didn't starve, crops didn't fail either, just our crops are GM free, and the overwhelming majority of the nation is happy for that so long as we don't need GM crops. They haven't been around long in a biological environment sense so our activism simply bought time to see what happens in other nations before we dive in the pool.

Activism and civil disobedience, Monsanto was a massive victory, and the government did not crack down on us so the general feeling was they agreed, but couldn't agree in public. It is a murky world in civil disobedience, undercover cops, bribes and blackmail, but it beat a massive corporation and the government didn't back them up when the cops said they had to buy their own private security.
edit on 8-6-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: clarity



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

So you refuse to acknowledge that activism can be a good thing and instead choose to only acknowledge the worst forms of activism imaginable.

Like I thought, you aren't being very fair. There have been way more than "one or two" victories for activism that turned out to be good things.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: amazing




Wait! LOL You just said you don't like Activism at All??? Without Activism Women wouldn't have the right to Vote.

Without Activism we might still be in Vietnam.

Without Activism there would be no civil rights movement and India would still be under British Rule. How can you not like that?


Yes I dislike activism for the reasons I stated.

Not every society required activism for the women's vote, nor universal suffrage.

If India wasn't under British rule, they would still be burning widows alive on the pyres of their deceased husbands.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




o you refuse to acknowledge that activism can be a good thing and instead choose to only acknowledge the worst forms of activism imaginable.

Like I thought, you aren't being very fair. There have been way more than "one or two" victories for activism that turned out to be good things.


No, you refuse to acknowledge that activism can be a bad thing, and instead choose to only acknowledge the best forms of activism imaginable. Not very fair.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




o you refuse to acknowledge that activism can be a good thing and instead choose to only acknowledge the worst forms of activism imaginable.

Like I thought, you aren't being very fair. There have been way more than "one or two" victories for activism that turned out to be good things.


No, you refuse to acknowledge that activism can be a bad thing, and instead choose to only acknowledge the best forms of activism imaginable. Not very fair.

That's a lie. We know that some form of activism can be a bad thing. You choose to focus on the bad aspects, not good ones. And I noticed you haven't responded to my post on the last page. Probably because it's the last post on that page.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Activism in itself, if based on care for fellow humans and other such lefty stuff I have in my head, to me, is the second tier of politics. The world where it is front line dealing with the opposing view and sometimes less than legal on all sides, government included.

EDIT
Question if you'd be kind enough to answer, imagine a situation with immigration service snatch squads post Brexit trying to deport my settled EU mates because they failed a visa application. If you were me, would you not hide them and/or fight the immigration teams? I would, passionately, and all my Brit mates would.
Would you?
Purely hypothetical of course but I'm making a point depending on how you answer.
edit on 8-6-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy




Activism in itself, if based on care for fellow humans and other such lefty stuff I have in my head, to me, is the second tier of politics. The world where it is front line dealing with the opposing view and sometimes less than legal on all sides, government included.


I'm not convinced that this is the case. I look at activism such as the Arab spring or the recent Palestinian protests, for example, and see people beating, raping, throwing stones and missiles at one another. It is not based on care, but on power. When the Danish cartoons of Mohammed came out, there were 200 deaths in the subsequent protests.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 04:20 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: amazing




Wait! LOL You just said you don't like Activism at All??? Without Activism Women wouldn't have the right to Vote.

Without Activism we might still be in Vietnam.

Without Activism there would be no civil rights movement and India would still be under British Rule. How can you not like that?


Yes I dislike activism for the reasons I stated.

Not every society required activism for the women's vote, nor universal suffrage.

If India wasn't under British rule, they would still be burning widows alive on the pyres of their deceased husbands.


But lets take it back a step. Take one issue, Women's right to vote in the US Without Activism women woudn't have been able to vote.

That's why it's laughable when you say you don't like Activism at all. It has been required throughout history in many places to instigate meaningful change.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 04:20 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Agreed, activism that involves innocent people being hurt or suffering is obviously bad.
...did you see my question in my edit? I tried to add it quick but wasn't fast enough.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy




Activism in itself, if based on care for fellow humans and other such lefty stuff I have in my head, to me, is the second tier of politics. The world where it is front line dealing with the opposing view and sometimes less than legal on all sides, government included.


I'm not convinced that this is the case. I look at activism such as the Arab spring or the recent Palestinian protests, for example, and see people beating, raping, throwing stones and missiles at one another. It is not based on care, but on power. When the Danish cartoons of Mohammed came out, there were 200 deaths in the subsequent protests.


But your taking extreme examples or one example to make your whole case.

It's like anything. Some good some bad. That's life.

Activism to get women the right to vote was good. See how that works? LOL



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 04:24 PM
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Seems to me the premise is that since some activisms are bad, we shouldn't have activism at all. And since activism can turn into a threat of boycotting, trampling on others' rights, and perhaps turn violent, we shouldn't have activism.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: amazing

Yes, hunting with hounds, chasing a fox for miles on horseback until it could run no further was a cruel sport in Britain, and without the disruption of the hunts by activists it wasn't talked about in the media. Activism stopped that cruel sport, just shoot the poor animal, don't chase it for hours for a laugh.
The activism provided the publicity, and when a tipping point of public realised how cruel it was the law was changed.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: amazing




But lets take it back a step. Take one issue, Women's right to vote in the US Without Activism women woudn't have been able to vote.

That's why it's laughable when you say you don't like Activism at all. It has been required throughout history in many places to instigate meaningful change.


Yes, I don't like activism at all. A simple adherence to the principle's of freedom would have sufficed to get women the vote.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 04:37 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope



A simple adherence to the principle's of freedom would have sufficed to get women the vote.

Explain.




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