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The Follies of Activism

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posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




that would also include your average Islamist revolutionary, KKK Clansman, fascist and socialist dictator


That sentence says why the KKK are activists, not why activists are reminiscent of the KKK. Lying again.




posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




Yea yea. Ad hominems notwithstanding, activism is part of our country and there is nothing you will say to change that. Change is a good thing because nothing is perfect and newer ideas are good to improve on existing ideas.


The point is that activism doesn't improve existing ideas for the reasons I stated. When people are making noise and blocking traffic in the streets, there are real people actually making the necessary changes.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krazysh0t




Yea yea. Ad hominems notwithstanding, activism is part of our country and there is nothing you will say to change that. Change is a good thing because nothing is perfect and newer ideas are good to improve on existing ideas.


The point is that activism doesn't improve existing ideas for the reasons I stated. When people are making noise and blocking traffic in the streets, there are real people actually making the necessary changes.


Who determines what the necessary changes are to be?



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




Anyone going on about using the 2nd to defend their freedoms is ignoring the fact that if things have gotten to that point then they've already given up their right to protest.


i have identified your malfunction

this is the totality of your intellect

you say if i defend my freedom with the 2nd then i have givin up my protest rights

a idiotic nonsensical statement that you refuse to take responsibility for not making any sense with

ignoring reality as usual

you would not have the right to protest if not for the second



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight




Who determines what the necessary changes are to be?


Regular, every day individuals in their day to day interactions. Changes in government and policy, however, are made by those elected to power.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:11 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krazysh0t




Yea yea. Ad hominems notwithstanding, activism is part of our country and there is nothing you will say to change that. Change is a good thing because nothing is perfect and newer ideas are good to improve on existing ideas.


The point is that activism doesn't improve existing ideas for the reasons I stated. When people are making noise and blocking traffic in the streets, there are real people actually making the necessary changes.

So you are suggesting that MLK's activism didn't lead to Civil Rights changes?



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: InTheLight




Who determines what the necessary changes are to be?


Regular, every day individuals in their day to day interactions. Changes in government and policy, however, are made by those elected to power.


Those elected to power can't always effect the changes they want, Then where does that leave us?...oh yes, activism.
edit on 16CDT02America/Chicago01220230 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Yet activists reminded you enough of the KKK for you to bring them up in your OP. Do you know the definition of reminisce? Because it means that one thing reminds you of another, which is why you thought of the KKK when thinking of activists and activism.

You're the one lying, not me. Stop lying to yourself Les, it isn't healthy.
edit on 6/8/2018 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




So you are suggesting that MLK's activism didn't lead to Civil Rights changes?


I think his oratory works and moral arguments had a far greater effect than his activism, but I say this on the grounds that marching, assembling, and protesting are unconvincing. If anything, his activism set him up for sabotage by government authorities, and ultimately led to his assassination.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I've personally have never totally understood activism from a practical standpoint. Likely because I don't approach problems from the "activists" angle.

Activism is more symbolic than anything (at least the kind you see carrying signs in the street)....people intentionally affixing themselves to public spaces in such a way as to be heard....Let the herd be heard!! As if the root cause of all the dissatisfaction is due to awareness. Truth is more times than not...people are aware and don't care, don't agree, or agree and don't see the point in the public spectacle and therefor do not partake.

I think many who believe in activism see it as a "rebellious" display that remains somewhat civil...Many of the responses to your post speak to this as they immediately utilized "They Live" OBEY iconography to counter the critique of activism. Implying activism = disobedience.

I do agree with a good portion of your post though in regards to distilling activism down to "annoying propaganda". While this may be the rule for activism, there are exceptions to every rule.

Often times its self-interest veiled under a nice garb of compassion, kindness and righteousness. Its actually a fairly common tactic developed in early adolescence. Once children identify the moral/ethical structure and its value....they will begin to utilize it to fulfill their needs. While a parent may say NO to their child wishes at face value...they are less likely if they can see some moral/ethical value to saying YES. My 7 year old daughter actually tries this trick on me every now and again when she feels like asking me outright won't work in her favor. She'll rework the pitch and appeal to my moral/ethical code that I've been showing her for the last 7 years.

I will however concede and disclose that activism isn't inherently devoid of positive, meaningful outcomes. Or at least it seems as such when one considered the efforts of Dr. Martin Luther King.

I will say that your gross conclusion of activism is likely accurate but not entirely, and such is the nature of gross conclusions. I think what you are witnessing in today's world that has likely lead you to your conclusions is a dramatic perversion of activism. As I asserted above its people veiling their self-interest with moral/ethical garb that appeals to most everyone innate (yet varying) levels of compassion. Essentially its a well crafted lie...

MLK seems to be the last of his kind...sadly.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: howtonhawky

1) The Constitution only protects rights. It doesn't give them. So you have the rights regardless if they are spelled out in that piece of paper or not.
2) The 2nd doesn't extend any rights; nor does it protect any rights. Again that is the Constitution that does so.
3) If you are using violence to get your way then you have given up on peaceful protest. No one is going to take you seriously if you try to deescalate to non-violence after already engaging in violence.
4) The 2nd isn't going to help you retain your rights from the government taking them away even if it were to happen. If you were to become violent anti-government radicals using guns then if you are caught (if not outright killed by the military) then you'll be treated as an enemy combatant.

You need to get right with reality and stop being so damn triggered whenever you see a liberal talk about guns. Damn you fly off the handle even when someone like myself isn't even talking about gun control...
edit on 8-6-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krazysh0t




So you are suggesting that MLK's activism didn't lead to Civil Rights changes?


I think his oratory works and moral arguments had a far greater effect than his activism, but I say this on the grounds that marching, assembling, and protesting are unconvincing. If anything, his activism set him up for sabotage by government authorities, and ultimately led to his assassination.

So you believe martyrs have zero effect on public opinion then?
edit on 8-6-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

His words were part of his activism! Campaigning for political and social change (activism) cannot happen without words being spoken. Surely you know this Les.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




Yet activists reminded you enough of the KKK for you to bring them up in your OP. Do you know the definition of reminisce? Because it means that one thing reminds you of another, which is why you thought of the KKK when thinking of activists and activism.

You're the one lying, not me. Stop lying to yourself Les, it isn't healthy.


The marches, the chanting, the costume wearing and flags—it's just self-evident that the KKK are activists. I mentioned that activists refuse to mention this. You fighting against this proves my point.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I've always been an activist for causes I believe in...
Poll tax, protests in London check - loss
Both gulf wars, protests in London check - loss
Fox hunting with dogs, protests in London check, civil disobedience disrupting hunts check - win
Monsanto planting test GM crops, Protests in London check, civil disobedience destroying crops check - win

I'll always fight for something I believe in, the ballot box alone is not enough for me, I've been arrested many times for my activism and I'm sure I will again when a cause crosses my path that I feel important enough.
I have a feeling with Soros sticking his nose into the UK wanting a second referendum for Britain regarding leaving the EU, I might be making a trip to that dirty hole known as London again...watch and wait is my current strategy, but I see no folly in activism. Some we win some we lose, but we absolutely spanked Monsanto, they pulled out of Britain and we don't grow GM crops here.
The cops told them they'd have to hire their own security as it was taking up their resources, but 'we the people' outnumbered them, and as private security cannot even carry sticks in the UK we won.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:22 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Now you're saying that activists ARE reminiscent of the KKK. Make up your mind already! Either that or continue to be dishonest, your choice.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: Sly1one
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I've personally have never totally understood activism from a practical standpoint. Likely because I don't approach problems from the "activists" angle.

Activism is more symbolic than anything (at least the kind you see carrying signs in the street)....people intentionally affixing themselves to public spaces in such a way as to be heard....Let the herd be heard!! As if the root cause of all the dissatisfaction is due to awareness. Truth is more times than not...people are aware and don't care, don't agree, or agree and don't see the point in the public spectacle and therefor do not partake.

I think many who believe in activism see it as a "rebellious" display that remains somewhat civil...Many of the responses to your post speak to this as they immediately utilized "They Live" OBEY iconography to counter the critique of activism. Implying activism = disobedience.

I do agree with a good portion of your post though in regards to distilling activism down to "annoying propaganda". While this may be the rule for activism, there are exceptions to every rule.

Often times its self-interest veiled under a nice garb of compassion, kindness and righteousness. Its actually a fairly common tactic developed in early adolescence. Once children identify the moral/ethical structure and its value....they will begin to utilize it to fulfill their needs. While a parent may say NO to their child wishes at face value...they are less likely if they can see some moral/ethical value to saying YES. My 7 year old daughter actually tries this trick on me every now and again when she feels like asking me outright won't work in her favor. She'll rework the pitch and appeal to my moral/ethical code that I've been showing her for the last 7 years.

I will however concede and disclose that activism isn't inherently devoid of positive, meaningful outcomes. Or at least it seems as such when one considered the efforts of Dr. Martin Luther King.

I will say that your gross conclusion of activism is likely accurate but not entirely, and such is the nature of gross conclusions. I think what you are witnessing in today's world that has likely lead you to your conclusions is a dramatic perversion of activism. As I asserted above its people veiling their self-interest with moral/ethical garb that appeals to most everyone innate (yet varying) levels of compassion. Essentially its a well crafted lie...

MLK seems to be the last of his kind...sadly.


That's a fair critique, thank you.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




Now you're saying that activists ARE reminiscent of the KKK. Make up your mind already! Either that or continue to be dishonest, your choice.


No, I said the KKK are activists, liar.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




So you believe martyrs have zero effect on public opinion then?


Not so much martyrdom as injustice.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:28 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You're so dishonest Les. You know exactly what you're doing, but maybe you're ignorant enough to not know what you're doing.

If the KKK are activists then how in the hell can you say that activists aren't reminiscent of the KKK? That makes no sense at all. Obviously you bringing up the KKK in a thread about activism/activists is proof that activists remind you of the KKK.

You're such a liar Les and I almost feel sorry that you're so dishonest not only with others but also yourself. Must be sad to have to lie to yourself constantly and never admit you're wrong.
edit on 6/8/2018 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



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