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WATCH: Two Transgenders Blow Out Girls In State Meet

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posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

All disagreements have to be rational? LOL. Then how do you explain ATS?

I disagree that the only possible fair division in athletics is by sex or gender. I already stated that just as many competitive sports have different weight classes, as physical size/strength is noted, as you yourself noted, as a determinant of fairness in competition, it seems like we could give some thought to quantifying all sports "divisions" in the same way.

However, you stated that there are no other ways to fairly divide groups for fair competition besides sex/gender, so I simply disagreed with you; I already explained why.
edit on 8-6-2018 by Gryphon66 because: Noted




posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ketsuko

They have to choose to be who they are or to compete in sports?

Yeah, sounds fair. Nah, just exclude trans kids. It'd be easier on them.


For serious competition, yes.

If they want to play in the rec league or on co-ed teams, then there isn't any issue, but that's not serious competition. It's for fun and exercise.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 01:46 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Trans folks are not using steroids simply to win in highschool/collegiate sports.

You're better than to even suggest something that absurd.


Depends, tbh. A lot of testosterone boosters are consodered steroids. Because testosterone( which all people create, but biological men in particular create more heavily) ... causes muscles to repair faster and thus grow faster and then in turn creates strength/endurance.... but whatever. Biology doesnt matter. Equality does.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ketsuko

They have to choose to be who they are or to compete in sports?

Yeah, sounds fair. Nah, just exclude trans kids. It'd be easier on them.


For serious competition, yes.

If they want to play in the rec league or on co-ed teams, then there isn't any issue, but that's not serious competition. It's for fun and exercise.


Right, as I said, your solution is to exclude trans kids.

Got it.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: PhatalError

I suggested that a part of more fair divisions could be testosterone level. Doesn't it also contribute to burst performance? i.e. more strength applied over a shorter time?

As you can see, though, apparently for many in the discussion the only solution is to maintain the status quo and exclude trans kids.

I thought we might be able to have a rational discussion on the facts of the matter ...



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

No.

It's to make them choose: physical transition or serious competition.

Look, I get this is hard for you to understand, but when part of your competitive equipment is your natural body, then it makes sense to exclude people who alter said body which is why those who use hormones are barred.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 01:54 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: PhatalError

I suggested that a part of more fair divisions could be testosterone level. Doesn't it also contribute to burst performance? i.e. more strength applied over a shorter time?

As you can see, though, apparently for many in the discussion the only solution is to maintain the status quo and exclude trans kids.

I thought we might be able to have a rational discussion on the facts of the matter ...



So, you want to create a complicated blood workup for all athletes in order to create competitive divisions just to appease and the tiniest portion of the population.

Why do you hate the ideas of biological sex and gender so much?



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

It still should create a firestorm.

This isn't about those boys being girls, that's just an oh, by the way... It's actually about level playing fields in athletic competition. Which those girls had. What about those girls who played by the rules trained their hearts out, and got blown out by, in all truth, cheaters.

I have no issues with boys wanting to become girls, or vice versa. I'm very much live and let live where that's concerned.

Athletic competition is about a level playing field where the best girl or boy wins, I can not, for the life of me, see how the lines can be blurred and still claim the competition is fair. This was not, is not, fair competition. Physically, athletically, those two girls were and are boys.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

But it's not hard for me to understand. I understand what you're saying completely. You want to exclude trans kids from "serious" competition.

Be okay with your answer!



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 01:57 PM
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such idiocy

we do not need such testing of our kids just because some dude thinks he is holding a vagina when he is standing at a urinal

we need medical help for the boys and girls that loose their way due to the pollution of our culture due to inclusiveness and the tugging of heartstrings in the name of equality that does not exist



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Why do you hate the idea of finding rational ways to increase the fairness of competition for everyone so much?



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:02 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ketsuko

But it's not hard for me to understand. I understand what you're saying completely. You want to exclude trans kids from "serious" competition.

Be okay with your answer!


I want all the kids in the competition to compete with the body they were born with in its natural state.

Since we are told time and again that being transgender has nothing to do with your physical self, then no, I don't want to exclude transgenders.

I want to exclude people who decide they need to take hormone treatments in addition to what their normally functioning bodies already provide, and then think they need to run or wrestle or whatever. And in case you were wondering, that includes people who dope, too.

I know you really would prefer me to turn into a raging hater so your job would be easier, but that's not what this is about. This is about biological females and biological males and why they compete in different divisions and why someone merely believing they are female doesn't change their biologically male body and male levels of testosterone or the effects on said body it has.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:02 PM
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Here's the solution that the IOC used ... is anyone opposed to this?




Under the previous IOC guidelines, approved in 2003, athletes who transitioned from male to female or vice versa were required to have reassignment surgery followed by at least two years of hormone therapy in order to be eligible to compete. Now, surgery will no longer be required, with female-to-male transgender athletes eligible to take part in men’s competitions “without restriction”. Meanwhile, male-to-female transgender athletes will need to demonstrate that their testosterone level has been below a certain cutoff point for at least one year before their first competition.


IOC rules transgender athletes can take part in Olympics without surgery



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:02 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

We(as a society), have tried that. It failed. Because it was sexist to put men against women, so the nation created gender leagues.. Now we’re repeating with a new propoganda standpoint. To be honest, the only fair way to reaolving this would be to let the trans compete in the womens races but add/subtract the difference of their tome vs the average difference in time between biologically male and female runner times over a test group of a few hundred thousand.
Thats the only thing i can think of currently for real “equality” ... although in this case equality is xx= girl, xy= male. Match the 23rd chromosone first, then we can talk about gender equality.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ketsuko

Why do you hate the idea of finding rational ways to increase the fairness of competition for everyone so much?


Because it's not rational or pragmatic.

It is unnecessarily convoluted because you don't like the ideas of gender and biological sex and are trying really, really hard to believe they are meaningless or should be.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ketsuko

But it's not hard for me to understand. I understand what you're saying completely. You want to exclude trans kids from "serious" competition.

Be okay with your answer!


I want all the kids in the competition to compete with the body they were born with in its natural state.


Yes, that's what you want; it's not possible for trans kids.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:04 PM
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Rational like a lobotomy

if durrant and james of the nba started saying they feel real pretty will you support them joining the wnba?

If they change their names to mrs.durrant and mrs. james then can they go play with they girls team

remember they feel real pretty in this rant



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Actually, yes. I think we'll see that it's about as fair as what we see in the video.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

How absurd to reduce what I'm saying to your idea that I don't like the idea of gender and biological sex!

I haven't said they're meaningless, or that they should be meaningless.

Your post is merely a blatant strawman again, Ketz.

Boring.



posted on Jun, 8 2018 @ 02:06 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ketsuko

But it's not hard for me to understand. I understand what you're saying completely. You want to exclude trans kids from "serious" competition.

Be okay with your answer!


I want all the kids in the competition to compete with the body they were born with in its natural state.


Yes, that's what you want; it's not possible for trans kids.


Yes, it is. It's real, real simple. They don't physically start to transition as long as they compete.

If they are a girl on the inside, then they'll still be a girl when their competitive days are done and they can become Caitlyn Jenner.




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